Expired Young Person's Railcard - Prosecution?

[Confused8]

Hi all,

First post here so apologies if I miss anything out.

Basically, I boarded a train at Newton Abbot train station to Exeter St Davids (1 stop along). I had used a young person's railcard (saving me a total of £2.30) from the ticket.

When the 'revenue protection inspector' came to check tickets, I handed my railcard over. Firstly, the expiry date had rubbed off, and he used a lighter to burn it to check when it expired. This was a 3-year card and therefore I was unaware it had expired (by 12 months!). I admit fault here.

He became very aggressive and asked me to explain. I was a bit shocked myself, and asked if I could purchase a new ticket at the full price. He said no.

He then took me out of the carriage and told me that my story was 'bull****' and he believed I knew it was out of date. He then became more aggressive and told me that I would not be allowed to pay the penalty fare notice due to my 'body language' giving away that I was aware that the YPRC was out of date.

He said I could expect a prosecution letter in the post. It's been about a week and I have not received anything, but I hear they will take a month or two.

I do not want a criminal record as it will cost me my job. Please can someone advise on what will happen and if this will be able to settle out of court?

The thing that makes my case more frustrating is the fact that I had money on my person to pay for a) a new ticket and b) the penalty fare (of £20 as it is more than 2 times the price of a standard ticket) - of which I was not allowed to do either.

I have since purchased a new YRPC (which I'm hoping will show that I am apologetic for my action) and also put a complaint in to the First Great Western due to the Inspector swearing, using a lighter on my YPRC and acting very aggressively. I have explained the situation in the email, and have a reference number of this complaint).

Any advice would be much appreciated as I am going mad with worry!

 

[FGW_DID]

Had any of the other print on the Railcard 'rubbed off' or did it just happen to be the expiry date?

 

[Confused8]

Had any of the other print on the Railcard 'rubbed off' or did it just happen to be the expiry date?

all of it, it was blank (I had 2 pieces of card, one with my details and my picture on, and then the card with just the date of expiry on). This was blank as the ink had come away, but I still had the card with my photo and details on.

He kept the charred remains of this card.

 

[Confused8]

Had any of the other print on the Railcard 'rubbed off' or did it just happen to be the expiry date?

my YPRC was split into 2 sections (as I believe the older versions were) - 1 card had my photo and details, and the second just had an expiry date.

the expiry date had worn off only (as that was all that was stamped onto the card)

 

[Muzer]

Had any of the other print on the Railcard 'rubbed off' or did it just happen to be the expiry date?

I believe the guy. Some railcards (especially those issued around the time in his story) have a massive issue with the ink coming off very quickly. I can show you some stock that looks completely blank unless you hold it in exactly the right light. I can see how someone would not remember the expiry date. I would be less quick to judge in the future.

Either that, or learn how to use quotation marks. One of the two


(Of course, it was a bit silly to assume it was in date without doing something to check - but I definitely believe the rubbed off part of the story, and it's certainly a lapse of concentration I've made in the past, using an out of date ticket).

 

[Confused8]

This was the old style of railcard that was in 2 parts

one part had my photo, name and DOB

Second part was stamped only with an expiry date...which had rubbed off entirely

 

[swt_passenger]

Aren't the three year cards issued on plastic? Wouldn't it be better if they embossed them like bank cards?

 

[maniacmartin]

Was this 3-year railcard plastic or cardboard?

 

[Muzer]

Actually, yeah, if it was issued on plastic that's a bit more odd. The plastic ones seem quite sturdy/not likely to rub off to me, at least the bank-issued varieties.

 

[Confused8]

mine was on cardboard

 

[thelongestroad]

If it was a 3 year card then it would have been (printed on) plastic, and putting a lighter on it would have just burnt it/melted it or whatever.

If the RPI used a lighter to reveal the date it would have been a paper one issued by a ticket office for 12 months, which are prone to fading for various reasons.

At the end of the day you need to ensure you have a valid railcard before purchasing tickets or attempting to use a ticket with railcard discounts. If it's a year out of date, I fail to garnish much sympathy I'm afraid.

 

[maniacmartin]

Confused78, you mention it was paper, but also that it was a 3 year card. Are you sure of this, as I didn't think such cards existed.

 

[Mojo]

Confused78, you mention it was paper, but also that it was a 3 year card. Are you sure of this, as I didn't think such cards existed.

Yes, I am confused too as 3 Yr cards are issued as online purchases only, on plastic.

 

[alex17595]

Yes, I am confused too as 3 Yr cards are issued as online purchases only, on plastic.

I was confused on how it could rub off as my 3 year card is plastic.

 

[Confused8]

Yes, I am confused too as 3 Yr cards are issued as online purchases only, on plastic.

I didn't purchase online, I purchased at a shop on campus - it was made by a woman who glued my photo onto a piece of cardboard with handwritten details (and an ink stamp of the expiration date)

 

[island]

Irrespective of how long the card was originally valid for, you must admit it doesn't look very good for you presenting a card that's a year out of date.

You've committed a criminal offence by joining a train without a valid ticket, so First Great Western is within its rights to prosecute you. Normally we find that train companies are willing to accept a sum of money in lieu of taking a prosecution forward, so when you get the letter you can enquire as to whether and how much would be in question here.

I'm not sure why you're thinking you would lose your job if you got a criminal record [leaving aside the fact that some railway offences don't carry one]. There have been recent developments in the Disclosure and Barring Service arising from some human rights court case so it is not at all certain that a conviction, even if recordable, would be disclosed. And that's assuming your employer for some reason decided to perform a new check on you.

 

[CallySleeper]

When I held 12 month railcards (the paper version) I recall the date did start to fade towards the end of its validity.

To also quote YPR Ts&Cs, point 8: "The Railcard will not be valid if it is damaged".

It's also common sense, really. No sympathy from me, sorry.

 

[Fare-Cop]

So far as I am aware, a paper railcard that had been dated with an old fashioned inked hand-stamp as stated by the OP would be unlikely to reveal the faded expiry date by using a heat source.

I believe that this only works with thermal printed stock. The original expiry date then appears as a negative image

 

[Confused8]

So far as I am aware, a paper railcard that had been dated with an old fashioned inked hand-stamp as stated by the OP would not reveal the faded expiry date by using a heat source.

I believe that this only works with thermal printed stock. The original expiry date then appears as a negative image

It did leave behind a black mark with the date clearly scorched into the card.

So I assume it will go past a penalty and go straight to prosecution. Will FGW likely accept an out of court settlement amount?

For a £5 ticket, how much do you think this will be?

 

[island]

So far as I am aware, a paper railcard that had been dated with an old fashioned inked hand-stamp as stated by the OP would be unlikely to reveal the faded expiry date by using a heat source.

I believe that this only works with thermal printed stock. The original expiry date then appears as a negative image

I don't think the OP's railcard had been printed in ink. He/she said "the ink had come away" but I read that as meaning the print had faded from someone not fully familiar with thermal printing.

 

[34D]

Yes, I am confused too as 3 Yr cards are issued as online purchases only, on plastic.

When I was a whippersnapper, my 3 year railcard was station issue. I defer to others as to how arrangements were in 2008, though.

 

[Crossover]

I have seen paper railcards (printed on the normal stock) fade within the space of 6 months, and mine became fairly illegible within about 10 months.

That said, a friend of mine had a 3 year railcard from around 2010 time and it was issued on plastic IIRC

 

[tony6499]

I think putting in a complaint may be counter productive as they may well investigate how many tickets you bought in the last 12 months with this railcard.

The lighter trick is the way a railcard's date can be verified so not sure why you would complain about the inspector doing that.

 

[Haywain]

When I was a whippersnapper, my 3 year railcard was station issue. I defer to others as to how arrangements were in 2008, though.

Stations certainly haven't been able to issue 3 year railcards since at least 1998, and I'm not sure they ever have been able to. To the best of my knowledge, the only 3 year railcards before online sales were those issued by banks.

 

[ModernRailways]

My sister (in 2007) got a 3 year railcard issued by her University and that was on the same type of stock that I got my 1 year railcard issued on last year. Her's was stamped using what looked like an everyday stamp, whereas mine was printed on.

Apparently she had to do something at the station but she can't remember what it was, maybe she had to register it or something?

Both of us must have been extremely lucky as both are still in readable condition with barely any ink rubbing away. It may have helped that we've both kept them in the same ticket wallet since we bought them and never took them out.

Back to the main issue, I'd probably have to say that Confused8 is just as much to blame for not checking the expiry date on his/her railcard. In effect you are travelling without a valid ticket. However, if it is true how the inspector acted then they may just be enough grounds for appeal although you would probably need a really good (expensive) lawyer to help you out.

 

[Fare-Cop]

I don't think the OP's railcard had been printed in ink. He/she said "the ink had come away" but I read that as meaning the print had faded from someone not fully familiar with thermal printing.

Sorry island, I was going by what the OP stated in his/her post. See below:

I didn't purchase online, I purchased at a shop on campus - it was made by a woman who glued my photo onto a piece of cardboard with handwritten details (and an ink stamp of the expiration date)

 

[island]

Ah. I missed that bit. Carry on.

 

[8J]

I think that complaining about how the RPI treated you (if true) may help you out. Certainly up here in scouseland, I have heared of many cases were the RPI's behaviours have been counter productive to the TOC and processing PF's with many cases just "being forgot about"

I don't think you have anything to lose to be honest? Did the RPI wear a body cam CCTV unit? Or was there some positioned on the train? I'm not saying that this excuses from your railcard not being valid, but I'm sick and tired of hearing of the few jumped-up RPI's thinking they're the best thing since sliced bread!

 

[Flamingo]

I've never seen a 3year railcard on thermal print, always plastic (anybody else ever seen them?) which instantly makes me suspect the rest of their story about them being the model passenger and the RPI being a psycho.

Logging a complaint against the RPI is not the best way to go when their only option to avoid court is to throw themselves on the mercy of the same department as they have just complained about, possibly the same manager dealing with both issues...

 

[bb21]

I don't think you have anything to lose to be honest?

I absolutely disagree.

To be honest I find it extraordinary that a stamped date fades completely. I have a bus pass from thirteen years ago that has still only barely faded. Also it is a little far-fetching that someone would "forget" that their Railcard is a whole year out-of-date. If you rarely use trains, did you not check prior to travel having not used it for a whole year?

Of course you could have been telling the absolute truth however I believe you would have a hard job convincing the train company that it is indeed a genuine error. No wonder the RPI did not believe you.