Oyster with the ELL RRB 19/20 Oct

[bicbasher]

For the first time, LOROL are providing a rail replacement bus from New Cross Gate to Dalston Junction/Kingsland calling at most stations on the line except Whitechapel, Shadwell, Wapping and Rotherhithe. (A supplementary service is operating from Shoreditch High Street to Wapping) and will additionally call at Bermondsey, Tower Hill and Aldgate East.

The publicity states that rail tickets will be valid and will open the gates at Canada Water and Stratford.

However, if I was to change at one of the stations mentioned, such as Aldgate East or Bermondsey, would a temporary OSI be added so I don't get charged twice if travelling from a station south of New Cross Gate?

 

[maniacmartin]

This isn't the first time. There was one a few weeks ago (covering the same staions including Bermondsey) on a Saturday which I took from Surrey Quays to Shoreditch High Street and back again in the evening.

The Arriva/TfL buses ran frequently and were lightly loaded in both cases, and the driver had turned off the Oyster reader and covered it with a map of the RRB route. Staff were present at both Surrey Quays and Shoreditch High Street giving directions, and did not tell passengers to touch any Oyster reader there so there were no ticket checks at all.

The buses hang around for a few minutes at Canada Water so that is the best place to change for the Jubilee line. If it's done the same as last time, your Oyster won't touch a reader until you reach the tube as I suspect LO just don't think it's worth the hassle reprogramming bus readers for RRBs.

 

[Mojo]

I think the OP was asking, if say ones does a journey like Canary Wharf to Anerley, will they be charged for one journey priced at £1.50, or £1.50 for a journey by Underground to Canary Wharf to Canada Water (or Bermondsey), and another £1.50 for a journey by train from New + Gate to Anerley; thus being charged more than if the normal train was running.

 

[maniacmartin]

Sorry I totally missed that.
I think they would be charged twice, unless they can persuade two members of staff to let them through the barriers without touching. Although not ideal, the Oyster helpline should be able to sort it out the day after travel

 

[swt_passenger]

I think LO just don't think it's worth the hassle reprogramming bus readers for RRBs.

I think they just assume that people are always making a full journey that includes touch in > tube/train > replacement bus > tube/train > touch out. They don't figure on people starting or finishing with the bus leg, and that's what seems to cause the questions.

The perceived problem would go away if all stations had a side entrance to/from a suitable rail replacement bus stop, which meant you always used the station gateline to start or finish your journey.

As that's far too difficult they just give up on accurate automatic charging...

 

[Mojo]

I think they just assume that people are always making a full journey that includes touch in > tube/train > replacement bus > tube/train > touch out. They don't figure on people starting or finishing with the bus leg, and that's what seems to cause the questions.

I personally believe it's the opposite; the current way of basically offering a 'free' bus journey to any customer with an Oyster card with the appropriate credit (or previous journey history) means that it is possible to do a journey where either the start of the very end is on the replacement bus, and not to get overcharged. Unless there is an Emergency OSI set or a process is in place during the overnight processing to give an automatic refund; travel within Zones 1-6 will always result in overcharging where the journey is split.[1]

[1] As far as I can work out anyway. A customer travelling from Zone 1 to Zones 7, 8, or 9 would stand to save if they picked up a replacement bus in Zone 2 which dropped them off in Zones 3 or beyond to continue their journey.

[Figures quoted use the TfL farescales, I did not check NR]

 

[bicbasher]

The buses hang around for a few minutes at Canada Water so that is the best place to change for the Jubilee line. If it's done the same as last time, your Oyster won't touch a reader until you reach the tube as I suspect LO just don't think it's worth the hassle reprogramming bus readers for RRBs.

Did the bus call at the bus station or like the SLL RRB's forced to start/stop in Lower Road?

Incidentally, it appears the only way I don't want to get charged the TfL/NR Zone 1 premium to get the TfL single Oyster fare is to travel via London Bridge and Farringdon on Southern and FCC, which isn't ideal.

 

[maniacmartin]

Did the bus call at the bus station or like the SLL RRB's forced to start/stop in Lower Road?

From Surrey Quays, we departed from the stop on Rotherhithe Old Road just to the west to the station. We then called at Canada Water Bus station, Bermondsey tube station, and then a bus stop near the junction of Shoreditch High Street and Redchurch Street.

Coming back, we called again at Canada Water bus station and I alighted there as I wasn't sure where the next stop would be.

 

[bicbasher]

Coming back, we called again at Canada Water bus station and I alighted there as I wasn't sure where the next stop would be.

I'd assume the RRB's would call at the Surrey Quays Shopping Centre southbound, possibly the least used P12 stop.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I think they just assume that people are always making a full journey that includes touch in > tube/train > replacement bus > tube/train > touch out. They don't figure on people starting or finishing with the bus leg, and that's what seems to cause the questions.

I think it's the other way around, they assume people will end with the RRB rather than using it in the middle of a journey.

If you start or end with the RRB then the bus leg of your journey is free. This was certainly the case with the Northern Line RRBs when I went from Highgate to High Barnet last weekend. I'd loaded Oyster credit anyway, but there was nowhere to touch in or touch out.

The issues come when people use the RRB as the middle leg, as TfL would assume most people would divert around the RRB leg if possible.

 

[Brucey]

The trouble with TfL's rail replacement buses is that they stick a sign stating "Penalty fare or prosecution. If you fail to show on demand a valid ticket or validated smartcard for your entire journey" right next to the bus door. The signs at the tube station also state "Normal tube fares apply" and also include the same statement as on the bus.

So technically the buses isn't free. But TfL won't admit either way....!

(Note: smartcard, not Oyster card, implying the sign has been amended to take into account new payment methods/other types of card soon)

 

[maniacmartin]

I didn't see any such signs for the Overground replacement bus. Maybe I wasn't paying close enough attention, since I had a season ticket that covered my route anyway

 

[bicbasher]

I'm popping up to the Quays tomorrow, so will have a look to see where the London Overground replacement bus stop is. They're displayed on the bus stops in yellow.

 

[maniacmartin]

I've never heard it called "the Quays" before...

 

[bicbasher]

I've never heard it called "the Quays" before...

I've heard it called worse!

 

[Tetchytyke]

The trouble with TfL's rail replacement buses is that they stick a sign stating "Penalty fare or prosecution. If you fail to show on demand a valid ticket or validated smartcard for your entire journey" right next to the bus door. The signs at the tube station also state "Normal tube fares apply" and also include the same statement as on the bus.

So technically the buses isn't free. But TfL won't admit either way....!

(Note: smartcard, not Oyster card, implying the sign has been amended to take into account new payment methods/other types of card soon)

I believe it is that if you hold a paper ticket then it should cover all the zones that the RRB goes through; a Z12 paper ticket won't get you on the bus to High Barnet, for instance. But Oyster complicates things, as the on-bus machines are isolated and are equally not capable of touch in and touch out anyway. If you have a travelcard or cash on your Oyster, then I don't see how they can Penalty Fare you.