Pacer better than a 153?

[ryan125hst]

Yesterday, I travelled from Retford to Sheffield for Sheffield Hallam University's open day. On the outward journey, a 144 turned up. I was impressed with the interior- it has clearly been refurbished. The seats were better than even the refurbished 142's as they seemed wider and more substantial. I also noticed that the door open/close buttons were located in a better place as they were on a pole to the right of the door and within passenger's eye line as they are waiting to get off, rather than facing the saloon like on the 142's (I've seen a few people not realising where the button is and walk down to another door that is open). They were the "easy to see, easy to press" type buttons as well that lit up clearly. The lights on the buttons on the 142's are so dull that you can barely tell they are illuminated.

I came back on a 153, a train that I don't think I have ever been on (if I have, it was seven years ago or more). I was with my Mum and we sat down at a table seat (an improvement over a Pacer so far as they don't have tables!). Mum realised that we had left something behind on the platform so we went to find it. When we got back on, our seats had been taken so we found another table seat. Only the table was missing. :roll:

I found the interior to be off poor standard if I'm honest. While they have put new seat covers on the seats, the rest of the interior didn't seem to have had much done to it since BR days. I opened a window at one point and then decided it was too draughty, so I closed it again. I noticed that it had reopened it's self a little while after! The "toilet engaged" light in the saloon looked very old when illuminated, and the whole saloon looked like it needed a full refurbishment. They have painted the vestibules in Northern Rail purple, and have installed new door control buttons, but I found the train to look quite tatty and there was a strange smell too.

To add to this, the engine was far louder than a Pacer. My Mum commented on how rough it sounded, although I knew that it was normal for a Sprinter.

All in all, I would have to say that the Class 144 seemed a far nicer experience than the 153. Granted, they are both better than a 142, and I know that other companies (Arriva Trains Wales, London Midland and East Midlands Trains) have refurbished there class 153's to a higher standard.

Does anyone else agree with me?

 

[PHILIPE]

And FGW also. See thread re 153361 which goes into further details.

 

[dk1]

I have to agree in lots of ways. Class 153s are awkward beasts to negotiate with luggage let alone cycles. On the other hand class 142/3s along the Devon coast doing the honours on a busy Exeter-Paignton service seem to cope extremelly well. Should the 153s ever be upgraded to the same standard as the GA 156 units i might change my mind, but still dont think Pacers do a bad job really.

 

[Harlesden]

Pardon me for appearing pedantic, but the dictiionary definition of the word "train"
1. a self-propelled, connected group of rolling stock.
2. a series or row of objects or parts.
3. a line or procession of persons, vehicles, animals, etc., traveling together.
Strictly speaking, a Class 153 operating by itself, unattached to any other rail vehicle, cannot be called a train. Railcar or Diesel Rail Unit might be more accurate.

 

[thenorthern]

I personally find the leg room with Chapman Seating on a 153 very little and I find I have to sit with my legs open to fit in, I also find that at the end with the luggage rack its harder to get out or the train as the doors feel slightly out of place. Overall I would agree with you

 

[Manchester77]

I've said this time and time again that northerns sprinter stock (excluding 155/6/8s) is far worse than their pacers. My experience with their 150s isn't great, train arrived on time and everything, but the interiors of too many of them are the ex-BR 1980s brown seats with orange door cards. In fact I remember a few months back on here a driver saying that 150s were far worse to walk through at Newton Heath than any pacer!

Another thing I like about the bus seated 142s, there's a bit more padding than on the 150s!!

 

[VTPreston_Tez]

The 144s are a brilliant train. The interiors are comfy, it's a shame it's stifling onboard and lacks tables but everything else is great on them.
It's a shame that the 142s aren't like them.

 

[HSTEd]

Pardon me for appearing pedantic, but the dictiionary definition of the word "train"
1. a self-propelled, connected group of rolling stock.
2. a series or row of objects or parts.
3. a line or procession of persons, vehicles, animals, etc., traveling together.
Strictly speaking, a Class 153 operating by itself, unattached to any other rail vehicle, cannot be called a train. Railcar or Diesel Rail Unit might be more accurate.

Well technically it could be a train of bogies.

A Class 153 having more than one

 

[yorksrob]

It's fair to say that some of the 153's are in need of a little TLC. I've travelled on them and their partners, the 155's, on some fairly longish journeys, and I've not found them too bad, although it has to be said, I always head for the table.

The 144's are comfortable trains, although at times, the lack of tables is a noteable disadvantage, so seat for seat, for longer distance services, I would take the 153/5 over the 144, but for my half hour commute, I'd probably stick with my 144.

 

[GatwickDepress]

From my experiences, 153s have always been a bit of a pain.

I remember the seat I was on when up north this summer looking about as clean as the average adult video store and smelling of cocoa powder - not hot chocolate, as if someone had split a drink, but actual powder. Most peculiar.

The 144s seem to feel more open as well, at least from the pictures of interiors. I really should get around to actually riding one!

Pardon me for appearing pedantic, but the dictiionary definition of the word "train"
1. a self-propelled, connected group of rolling stock.
2. a series or row of objects or parts.
3. a line or procession of persons, vehicles, animals, etc., traveling together.
Strictly speaking, a Class 153 operating by itself, unattached to any other rail vehicle, cannot be called a train. Railcar or Diesel Rail Unit might be more accurate.

Section 83(1) of the Railways Act 1993 defines "train" as:
a) two or more items of rolling stock coupled together, at least one of which is a locomotive; or
b) a locomotive not coupled to any other rolling stock.

The same section defines "locomotive" as:
“locomotive” means any railway vehicle which has the capacity for self-propulsion (whether or not the power by which it operates is derived from a source external to the vehicle);"

So a 153 counts as a train, as it is a locomotive not coupled to any other rolling stock.

going to look a bit silly now if I'm wrong, aren't I? ; )

 

[samuelmorris]

Are you allowed to call it a locomotive if it can carry passengers? :P

 

[Manchester77]

HST could carry passengers technically in the guards van couldn't it?

 

[GatwickDepress]

Are you allowed to call it a locomotive if it can carry passengers? :P

If so, we have a whole bunch of passenger trains just rotting away at Toton! Class 60 in Pacer replacement shocker?

EDIT:

HST could carry passengers technically in the guards van couldn't it?

Yup, there was that well reported incident...which I can't remember where and when now. Was it in Wales?

EDIT 2: http://www.luxsoft.demon.co.uk/village/hst.html Ah, this is it! Now there'll be people saying it's a power car, not a locomotive. :P

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Pardon me for appearing pedantic, but the dictiionary definition of the word "train"
1. a self-propelled, connected group of rolling stock.
2. a series or row of objects or parts.
3. a line or procession of persons, vehicles, animals, etc., traveling together.
Strictly speaking, a Class 153 operating by itself, unattached to any other rail vehicle, cannot be called a train. Railcar or Diesel Rail Unit might be more accurate.

Not sure it is now the case, but I remember one forum member having a forum signature that put your posting basis in a nutshell.

 

[Manchester77]

Yup, there was that well reported incident...which I can't remember where and when now. Was it in Wales?

EDIT 2: http://www.luxsoft.demon.co.uk/village/hst.html Ah, this is it! Now there'll be people saying it's a power car, not a locomotive. :P

Aha that was the event I was thinking of!! Quite surreal really

 

[D365]

Are you allowed to call it a locomotive if it can carry passengers? :P

Isn't the driver a passenger of the vehicle? Even if he is the one in control!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

http://www.luxsoft.demon.co.uk/village/hst.html Ah, this is it! Now there'll be people saying it's a power car, not a locomotive. :P

It just has to be posted every time, doesn't it :P

 

[GatwickDepress]

Isn't the driver a passenger of the vehicle? Even if he is the one in control!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So drivers get to fare evade and avoid punishment for it? It's one rule for them and one for us!
-Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells.

And yes, that was satirical!

It just has to be posted every time, doesn't it :P

Hey, I'm don't post it for the subject matter; I just find the recommended screen resolution and dial-up reminder to be quite nostalgic.

 

[edwin_m]

In my view the main problem with 153s has always been that a number of large heaters are placed under individual seats, rather than having a system that distributes heat more evenly. Thus on a cold day you have the choice of roasted legs or cold all over.

 

[D365]

So drivers get to fare evade and avoid punishment for it? It's one rule for them and one for us![snipsnip]

Not just that, they get paid for it!

Hey, I'm don't post it for the subject matter; I just find the recommended screen resolution and dial-up reminder to be quite nostalgic.

My current internet speed could give dial-up a good run for its money... Virgin claiming to have upgraded is pretty much the opposite...

 

[47802]

Personally I think railbuses are terrible full stop, terrible ride, very draughty and frequently uncomfortable seats, granted the 143/144 are marginally better than the 142's. Noise wise the engine my be a bit quieter than a sprinter but track and general noise is higher.

153/155 worst of the sprinters built by a bus company on a bad day, very noisy but I would still take them over a railbus.

Both should be consigned to the skip but thats unlikely any time soon.

 

[TOCDriver]

142's, 153's etc. You had better get used to them because you'll be seeing them for many more years yet. mechanically, they are very simple machines and their parts can be manufactured and sourced at will. With good engineering behind them, they'll last decades. The 153s on the Cumbrian coast, which carry out one of Northern's longest routes, day in and day out (Carlisle - Lancaster) are more than up to the job and that's speaking from both a passenger and operator point of view.

 

[D365]

Yeah but the sticking issue with the 142 class at least is that they aren't to be modified for DDA...

 

[samuelmorris]

Is there much going on in the way of DDA upgrades for the 153/155s? I found them rather difficult to manage with a large case (essentially giving me similar issues to a wheelchair user)

 

[TOCDriver]

Yeah but the sticking issue with the 142 class at least is that they aren't to be modified for DDA...

It would be far cheaper modifying them than procuring a whole new class of train. They are certainly big enough to modify in my opinion

 

[47802]

It would be far cheaper modifying them than procuring a whole new class of train. They are certainly big enough to modify in my opinion

I would certainly hope that electrification will at least allow the 142's to be binned.

 

[Silv1983]

I find the 153s amusing because no2 end 'always' smells of weed! It's bizarre.

 

[D365]

It would be far cheaper modifying them than procuring a whole new class of train. They are certainly big enough to modify in my opinion

Angel Trains doesn't think so, in their opinion. I think they'd be in a good position to know, considering they own the lot Also see the post immediately below yours.

 

[Tracked]

I thought of doing a comparison, but it's easier to say that everything I don't like about the 153 is also present on Pacers, with additional uncomfortable bouncy ride and worryingly flimsy construction

 

[fgwrich]

I have to agree in lots of ways. Class 153s are awkward beasts to negotiate with luggage let alone cycles. On the other hand class 142/3s along the Devon coast doing the honours on a busy Exeter-Paignton service seem to cope extremelly well. Should the 153s ever be upgraded to the same standard as the GA 156 units i might change my mind, but still dont think Pacers do a bad job really.

I'll agree with that. The pacers may be seen as a rather 'naff' item of rolling stock, but when they're put on what is effectively a DMU metro type service such as the Devon Metro (Exmouth - Exeter - Paignton) then they do seem to cope rather well - wide doors and better luggage space than a Sprinter. Whereas 153s do cope relatively better on the more branch line type services, like the Barnstaple branch for example, where they do offer more of a compromise - not so though if you have bikes or Surfboards on board though!

 

[Dunc108]

The 144s are a brilliant train. The interiors are comfy, it's a shame it's stifling onboard and lacks tables but everything else is great on them.
It's a shame that the 142s aren't like them.

I've always wondered if the 144s will be the longest surviving of the fleet when Pacers are eventually phased out due to their ambience & slightly better ride quality over a 142 - especially as more routes are electrified & stock is reshuffled.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'll agree with that. The pacers may be seen as a rather 'naff' item of rolling stock, but when they're put on what is effectively a DMU metro type service such as the Devon Metro (Exmouth - Exeter - Paignton) then they do seem to cope rather well - wide doors and better luggage space than a Sprinter. Whereas 153s do cope relatively better on the more branch line type services, like the Barnstaple branch for example, where they do offer more of a compromise - not so though if you have bikes or Surfboards on board though!

153s are better than 142s especially on the Ormskirk Branch which still has long sections of jointed track of variable quality. 153s give a relatively steady ride but 142s can lurch & even the entire carriage shake on careworn sections of track.