Crewe to Shrewsbury Signal Box Closures

[Class 92]

Today will mark the end of Nantwich, Wrenbury, Prees, Wem and Harlescott signal boxes. They will be around for another week on Stand By but the signals & crossings will be controlled from Cardiff. As it is my local line it will be a shame to see them go and the last trains will be signalled through soon.
Went today to see the RHTT and also to watch the last day of operation.

Last Southbound: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/H13113/2013/10/11/advanced

Last Northbound: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P41203/2013/10/11/advanced

Bye Bye signal boxes
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I wonder if it will work or not because Network Rail have been doing it for an extra two years! I reckon they will have problems with the level crossings.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

At about 105 miles from Cardiff does that make Nantwich the furthest point signalled from its controlling box (for now)?
It will indeed be interesting to see if NR has solved the obstacle detection problems experienced on the Ely-Norwich pilot.

Edit: The Far North RETB extends to 161 miles from Inverness SC.
On the other hand it does not operate "lights on sticks".

 

[Class 92]

One of the issues they had in December last year when they were about to do the switch over is that a signal at Nantwich took 30 seconds to go back to danger!

 

[EltonRoad]

Is this why there were no trains between Shrewsbury and Crewe today? (Interestingly, the Cardiff - Manchesters were diverted via Telford and Oxley Chord).

 

[Class 92]

Yep that's correct

 

[TheEdge]

It will indeed be interesting to see if NR has solved the obstacle detection problems experienced on the Ely-Norwich pilot.

No, no they have not...

 

[merlodlliw]

Out of interest why is Cardiff controlling such distant areas, whats its limit,will it control the Shrewsbury/Chester line past Wrexham into Chester.

 

[The Planner]

Doubt if they know yet, it will probably go to the route boundary with Wales/LNW as they tend to get a bit tetchy over their patches. Gresty Lane is going into Crewe in the next year or so. Large distance from the controlling box isn't exactly new.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Out of interest why is Cardiff controlling such distant areas, whats its limit,will it control the Shrewsbury/Chester line past Wrexham into Chester.

Under the CP5 plan Cardiff will eventually control all of North Wales and the Marches except the Chester PSB area which will go into Manchester ROC.
This extends from Chester almost to Wrexham and Connah's Quay.
Cardiff's control is also due to spread up the Marches, but I don't think they have worked out how to do Shrewsbury itself yet.
The North Wales Main Line is due to be resignalled into Cardiff in 2015 (Connah's Quay to Llandudno).
That will put the furthest signal 190-odd rail miles from Cardiff.
It includes more 90mph running and reversible signalling.
It is all based on the Shrewsbury-Crewe modular pilot so that had better work!

 

[Class 92]

It has been switched over and like I said in the first post they would have problems with level crossings and they did took my dad 1hour to do a 30min journey to work this morning because of the problems with level crossings!

 

[PHILIPE]

Is this why there were no trains between Shrewsbury and Crewe today? (Interestingly, the Cardiff - Manchesters were diverted via Telford and Oxley Chord).

The trains that I checked out went via Wrexham and Chester to Crewe, reversing in Platform 6. Platform 6 is the only platform at Crewe with access to both Chesteer and Manchester routes.

Just re-checked and nothing ran via Oxley Chord

 

[6Gman]

Newcastle Road crossing in Nantwich was closed this afternoon.

Problems?

 

[Class 92]

The trains that I checked out went via Wrexham and Chester to Crewe, reversing in Platform 6. Platform 6 is the only platform at Crewe with access to both Chesteer and Manchester routes.

Just re-checked and nothing ran via Oxley Chord

I was at Crewe on Saturday and all trains were heading towards/from Stafford on the slow.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I was at Crewe on Saturday and all trains were heading towards/from Stafford on the slow.

I think Sunday was the diversion via Chester/Crewe.
I see there are still night-time closures with diversions via Chester this week.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P41207/2013/10/14/advanced

 

[EltonRoad]

The trains that I checked out went via Wrexham and Chester to Crewe, reversing in Platform 6. Platform 6 is the only platform at Crewe with access to both Chesteer and Manchester routes.

Just re-checked and nothing ran via Oxley Chord

Not sure about Sunday, but on Saturday RTT showed them as going via Telford.

 

[PHILIPE]

Not sure about Sunday, but on Saturday RTT showed them as going via Telford.

Sunday via Wrexham

 

[Class 92]

Which way is quicker?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Which way is quicker?

Quicker via Bushbury. 65mins or so, although you then have to reverse at Shrewsbury.
75-ish via Chester, but you can stop and be more use to the travelling public this way.
One reason Chester was used recently is that both direct Chester-Manchester routes were closed, so Shrewsbury-Chester-Crewe-Manchester killed two birds with one stone.

 

[krus_aragon]

I've heard from local staff that the first week under the new system's gone without a hitch. The box staff must have been dead bored with nothing to do unless it all went wrong.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I've heard from local staff that the first week under the new system's gone without a hitch. The box staff must have been dead bored with nothing to do unless it all went wrong.

That's good news.
Were the incidents hinted at higher up nothing to do with the new signalling then?
Seeing as the Marches and North Wales Main Line routes are due to be fitted with the same system, it's important the system works OK.
I'm intrigued at the reversible signalling facility.
This should be very good for service recovery and for easier maintenance.

 

[The Planner]

I am amazed they made the business case stack up for any element of bi-di signalling. It is normally the first to go in any value management, even if anyone is brave enough to suggest it.

 

[33056]

Its about time we had more bi-directional signalling in this country, it is fairly standard on the continent.

 

[The Planner]

I agree to an extent, but cost wise it rarely ever washes its face.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I agree to an extent, but cost wise it rarely ever washes its face.

Being a trial, I expect that had to be trialled too.
Maybe the basic modular spec for all main lines in the future will include SIMBIDS.
Crewe-Shrewsbury (ie Nantwich-Harlescott) is only 2 sections on the "wrong" line I think, split at Wem.
It's very noticeable that the 2-track sections of the ECML recover quicker from blockages with SIMBIDS than the equivalent WCML which doesn't have it.

 

[The Planner]

SIMBIDS is a swear word now, it now has a snazzy new name along the lines of "restricted capacity signalling" or something..... as someone got upset that it actually isn't simplified signalling.

 

[Railsigns]

Maybe the basic modular spec for all main lines in the future will include SIMBIDS.

Nothing in the future will include SIMBIDS. There have been no new SIMBIDS installations since 2002 and it is no longer allowed for new works. What is permitted is reduced capacity bi-directional signalling, which is like SIMBIDS but with full AWS provision.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

SIMBIDS is a swear word now, it now has a snazzy new name along the lines of "restricted capacity signalling" or something..... as someone got upset that it actually isn't simplified signalling.

Nothing in the future will include SIMBIDS. There have been no new SIMBIDS installations since 2002 and it is no longer allowed for new works. What is permitted is reduced capacity bi-directional signalling, which is like SIMBIDS but with full AWS provision.

I will wash my mouth out...
RCBDS doesn't fall off the tongue, does it?
But then ERTMS doesn't either.

 

[The Informer]

I agree to an extent, but cost wise it rarely ever washes its face.

Will let you all know how well the Bi-Di works next week on nights.

 

[Class 92]

Are network rail testing it out or something?

 

[The Informer]

Are network rail testing it out or something?

Not quite but single line working is in operation on midweek nights between Shrewsbury & Crewe. Maintenance possessions are in place on one line only leaving the opposite open for Bi-Di working.