Northern rail - letter from debt collection and prosecutions unit

[mj0607]

Hi,

I'm just looking for some advice please.

I am a regular rail user, travelling by train up to six days a week. By local station is Hall I' Th' Wood, near Bolton, which has no ticket kiosk or booth.

In September, I was travelling to Liverpool, a journey that requires changing at Bolton and Manchester Oxford Road (meaning having to get three trains). Unfortunately, I didn't see a ticket guard or conductor on my first two trains (they were packed and I had to stand) and I don't recall seeing one on the third either. On this particular day, my first two trains left on time but arrived at their destination late, making me close to an hour late for work.

I was seriously annoyed by this, as it wasn't the first time it had happened since I started using the station (I only moved there recently). On arrival at Liverpool Lime Street, I therefore bought a ticket from Liverpool South Parkway instead of my original destination,

Therefore, I got pulled over by a Northern Rail member of staff at Liverpool and got told the ticket wasn't valid. I admitted what I'd done and explained my reasoning (didn't see a guard to buy one and being angered at being late for work). He said he'd write that down and we'll "see how Northern Rail want to deal with it."

Obviously I feel completely stupid and realise what I did was completely idiotic and I'm sorry for what I did. As I've mentioned, I used trains regularly and have no problem with paying the full fare - anyone who looks at my bank records can see this.

I've now received the letter from Northern Rail asking for my details and my version of events. I'm prepared to pay any fine that they throw my way because I understand that what I did was ridiculous and stupid, but I don't want a criminal record (who does?). Is there any advice of what I should do and what I should write on the letter before I return it?

Thanks very much in advance.

 

[tony6499]

Northern Rail won't throw any fines your way the courts and legal system will do that

 

[island]

Northern Rail probably will give you the option to settle the matter on payment of the sum of £96.60 if you have not come to its attention before.

Why didn't you buy a ticket at Bolton or Manchester O Rd?

 

[mj0607]

Northern Rail probably will give you the option to settle the matter on payment of the sum of £96.60 if you have not come to its attention before.

Why didn't you buy a ticket at Bolton or Manchester O Rd?

There are no ticket booths on the platform at either station - but I've done the journey many times before and always had the option to buy on the train from Oxford Road. But on this occasion I don't recall seeing a conductor.

 

[gnolife]

Northern Rail probably will give you the option to settle the matter on payment of the sum of £96.60 if you have not come to its attention before.

Why didn't you buy a ticket at Bolton or Manchester O Rd?

Looking at NRE, it looks like a typical journey has a 5 minute connection at BON, and a 12 minute connection at MCO, certainly not feasible to buy at BON, and may not be doable at MCO at busy times.

 

[evoluzione]

Looking at NRE, it looks like a typical journey has a 5 minute connection at BON, and a 12 minute connection at MCO, certainly not feasible to buy at BON, and may not be doable at MCO at busy times.

Not forgetting the three missed opportunities to purchase a ticket from the guard by simply boarding at the rear and informing them you need to purchase a ticket while they are stood on the platform.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

What will be going through the mind of the Investigator when they read your letter might well be the same as what went through mine:-
This is a regular passenger who wants us to believe that they regularly pay their proper fare, but, by some coincidence, the one time we put a full inspection on the gates at Lime Street is also the one time that they happen to have missed all 3 opportunities to pay and is also the one time that they attempt to defraud us by stating the wrong name of the station they boarded at. Hmmm.
I'd need some persuasion that it really was a coincidence and that you have an otherwise unbroken record of paying the full and proper fare.

Can you provide evidence of that ?

As for the realtionship between a delayed service and taking the unilateral decision to reduce your fare, I would normally advise in the strongest possible terms to avoid attempting to make that link. However, if it's all you've got, and if it is the full and absolute truth, then you might as well mention it, as the alternative leaves the impression that you avoid paying your full fare at every possible opportunity (that impression might still remain!).

My advice? Tell the truth and apologise that you did not tell the truth in September.

 

[island]

Looking at NRE, it looks like a typical journey has a 5 minute connection at BON, and a 12 minute connection at MCO, certainly not feasible to buy at BON, and may not be doable at MCO at busy times.

The OP alludes to a situation whereby the first two trains were delayed causing missed connections. During the wait for the succeeding train, there was surely ample time for a person intending to pay his fare to do so.

 

[mj0607]

Hi guys - firstly, thanks for the replies.

To Island and evoluzion, I'm not looking for anyone to tell me what I did was wrong - I know that. It was a stupid, petty thing to do and I regret it deeply. But I'll add that I've never had a problem buying my ticket on the third train before, where there's usually an inspector.

To DaveNewcastle - thanks very much for the advice. A look at my bank statements shows regular weekday (and sometimes Saturday) payments whilst on trains. On some days, I travel to work by car because I have to be there at an earlier time - always a Monday and Thursday - but the other days I 99% of the time travel by train, and my bank statements could back that up. Would it be worth including such things in a letter?

I see from advice elsewhere that people are recommended to ask to make an out of court settlement. Obviously this is something I want to explore - is there are fee that you should offer to make?

Thank you,

MJ0607

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . A look at my bank statements shows regular weekday (and sometimes Saturday) payments whilst on trains. On some days, I travel to work by car because I have to be there at an earlier time - always a Monday and Thursday - but the other days I 99% of the time travel by train, and my bank statements could back that up. Would it be worth including such things in a letter?

Normally, I would not advise enclosing copies, as they do nothing to confirm nor deny your guilt of the actual incident on the day in question. However, as you have so little else in your defence, then, and as I said in my earlier reply, if it is a true matter of fact that you have paid the correct fare on other work days, then yes, do enclose the evidence.

. . . out of court settlement. Obviously this is something I want to explore - is there are fee that you should offer to make?

No.
If you are making an apology for having attempted to avoid paying the proper fare then you are at liberty to ask if the company would be willing to settle the matter by way of a payment which includes the fare due and their administrative costs. It would then be for the Company to decide and if the agree, to advise you of those costs.

 

[bb21]

The OP alludes to a situation whereby the first two trains were delayed causing missed connections. During the wait for the succeeding train, there was surely ample time for a person intending to pay his fare to do so.

If the situation alluded to by the OP is accurate then I can understand his actions. When you have missed your connection and late already, the last thing you want to do is to go to the ticket office in case you miss the next train. Depending on the situation, especially when there is disruption, sometimes a train might not be announced until it is practically in the platform.

 

[mj0607]

DaveNewcastle, thanks once again for you input. I really appreciate.

I'm at the process of drafting a letter now and have until the 28th to get it off (I'll send first class recorded). I notice a few people have asked for help with these - I'm quite happy writing the content but just don't want to get the wrong tone. Would anybody be kind enough to proof read it for me?

Thanks so much

MJ0607