Rant - Oyster max fare when you don't go anywhere!

[sammyg901]

Just a mini rant about this crazy situation! Touched in at Mile End - got halfway down the stairs and immediately obvious boarding anything would be impossible due to issues with the District / H&C lines, Central line is tricky at the best of times.

Touched out and hopped on a bus to Aldgate to join the tube there (so my journey is already costing £1.40 more than planned) - got there and couldn't touch in due to insufficient credit. Turns out my immediate touch out charged me £7.20 ! Only Mile End could have cancelled it, I have to call in for a refund.

Why does the system not just reset it back to 0 if you leave without travelling? Is it some sort of anti fraud?

There should definitely be some sort of "disruption mode" on the barriers or even better information/control of the barriers so we weren't needlessly going through in the first place.

//rant over

 

[swt_passenger]

It is normal operation of the system, and is definitely an anti fraud measure - and it is explained on the Oyster website here:

Between 0 and 2 minutes: a maximum pay as you go fare of up to £8.30. If, having touched in and out within two minutes, you then re-enter the same or a different station within 45 minutes, the maximum pay as you go fare will be refunded and a new journey started. This does not apply if you touched out on a yellow card reader that is not on a ticket gate or take a bus or tram before re-entering.
[...]
We apply these charges to discourage fare evasion.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14870.aspx

Scroll down to 'same station exits'.

So it was the action of touching in on a bus that caused the max fare to remain, if you'd re-entered at another underground station it would have been cancelled.

 

[Lockwood]

I got hit with a similar thing at Wimbledon a while back.
Tapped in to get through the gates, possibly tapped in for tram, got a phone call saying to take a bus and not the tram, tapped back out through the gate, got on the bus.
Tried to get in to South Wimbledon tube later, *bam* no credit. Long wait until someone could come to the office and cancel the journey.

 

[edwin_m]

On one occasion I was taking DLR for a short journey from one of the elevated stations. Having touched in and climbed lots of stairs, the information screen at platform level said all trains were cancelled. Hence I went back down, touched out and walked instead. Presumably charged maximum fare. Why can't they make sure there is an information screen visible before touching in?

Another time also on DLR I thought I had forgotten to touch in and went back to do so, resulting in another maximum fare I guess as this was a reader not on a ticket gate.

 

[Simon11]

I don't understand why you don't have auto refill set up on your oyster!

Never run out of credit, and just check the card to ensure you havn't over paid.

 

[MikeWh]

On one occasion I was taking DLR for a short journey from one of the elevated stations. Having touched in and climbed lots of stairs, the information screen at platform level said all trains were cancelled. Hence I went back down, touched out and walked instead. Presumably charged maximum fare. Why can't they make sure there is an information screen visible before touching in?

Possibly not. If you take more than two minutes between touch in and out (how many steps were there?) you get charged a single to the nearest station which is usually a 1 zone fare.

Another time also on DLR I thought I had forgotten to touch in and went back to do so, resulting in another maximum fare I guess as this was a reader not on a ticket gate.

I agree they could do with a verify option, especially where you haven't had the certainty of gates opening for you.

 

[thedbdiboy]

As posted above, the system is configured in ways that some times penalise a perfectly innocent set of activities. However, they are supposed to be getting better at auto-correcting things like maximum charges where they can see it is a one-off, but it might take a day or two to show up. If you don't want to rely on this, I would recommend ringing the Oyster helpline as given the circumstances it would seem entirely reasonable to amend the amount you were charged.

 

[Smethwickian]

On one occasion I was taking DLR for a short journey from one of the elevated stations. Having touched in and climbed lots of stairs, the information screen at platform level said all trains were cancelled. Hence I went back down, touched out and walked instead. Presumably charged maximum fare. Why can't they make sure there is an information screen visible before touching in?

I agree with the OP's original point about a 'disruption mode'. If all trains are cancelled and people genuinely cannot go anywhere, can controllers not override the readers or temporarily disable them?

 

[andrewkeith5]

I agree with the OP's original point about a 'disruption mode'. If all trains are cancelled and people genuinely cannot go anywhere, can controllers not override the readers or temporarily disable them?

If this were possible (and I don't see why it shouldn't be), it would have to be done locally at the stations, as the readers only communicate with the central system once per day at some point overnight.

 

[sammyg901]

I thought about it some more and I can now see why - if you knew you were going to an unbarriered station you could just touch in, out and then travel for free.

Pain about the bus - of course I had to take a bus to get to another station! If I'd have known I'd have used my other oyster for the bus.

I have a main Oyster card which usually has a travel card and auto top up so usually I'm unaffected by such issues. Just got an odd few days before a trip abroad so using up the credit on an oyster an American friend gave me.

I called the helpline but of course they can't see it until tomorrow. Annoyingly i'm away for two weeks and then back on a travelcard so hopefully they can just refund the whole thing and deposit via cheque.

I've had an auto refund before on my registered card after wembley events so they do work sometimes.

 

[andrewkeith5]

I thought about it some more and I can now see why - if you knew you were going to an unbarriered station you could just touch in, out and then travel for free.

Pain about the bus - of course I had to take a bus to get to another station! If I'd have known I'd have used my other oyster for the bus.

I have a main Oyster card which usually has a travel card and auto top up so usually I'm unaffected by such issues. Just got an odd few days before a trip abroad so using up the credit on an oyster an American friend gave me.

I called the helpline but of course they can't see it until tomorrow. Annoyingly i'm away for two weeks and then back on a travelcard so hopefully they can just refund the whole thing and deposit via cheque.

I've had an auto refund before on my registered card after wembley events so they do work sometimes.

In terms of refunding an Oyster card, if you took it to a station I don't see why they wouldn't refund the deposit and credit in cash or as a deposit onto your main Oyster. It should be OK doing so after you return, though of course you need to have the correction made ASAP!

 

[34D]

Pain about the bus - of course I had to take a bus to get to another station!

This is the ridiculous bit, of course: it is wholly natural to take a bus to the next station.

When you call us, you want to be asking for your £1.30 back AND you want to claim compensation for the delay.

 

[bb21]

When you call us, you want to be asking for your £1.30 back AND you want to claim compensation for the delay.

Call whom?

On what basis can he demand his bus fare back?

 

[34D]

Call whom?

On what basis can he demand his bus fare back?

Call *them* sorry.

Non-performance of the underground

 

[andrewkeith5]

This is the ridiculous bit, of course: it is wholly natural to take a bus to the next station.

When you call us, you want to be asking for your £1.30 back AND you want to claim compensation for the delay.

It does sound ridiculous, but I believe it is down to the way the system works - as everything is held on the card and all the readers do are validate it, there is limited space to hold any of this information.

IIUC when you touch a entry reader it goes through various checks and ordinarily stores something (be it where you started or that a maximum fare has been charged), which are then read the next time you touch. However because on a bus there isn't a touch out, IIUC it just charges the balance and enters the journey into the 'last journey' memory, the process of which clears the temporary journey information and hence when you touch in next, the reader won't know you need a correction...

 

[IanD]

Call whom?

On what basis can he demand his bus fare back?

I got turfed out at Finsbury Park one Saturday evening due to and incident and had to catch a bus to Seven Sisters to continue my journey. When I rang the Oyster helpline, they refunded my bus fare and cancelled the extra tube fare for the second leg - no demanding anything, just stated what had happened and they did the rest. Always find the Oyster helpline is as helpful as the name suggests.

 

[anme]

I once had a similar problem to the OP. I contacted Oyster via their webpage and the maximum fare was refunded. On the couple of occasions I've had to contact them, they have always been helpful and they have always refunded anything I considered to be unreasonable.

 

[bb21]

Agreed about the helpline being quite helpful when needed normally. My question is whether it is documented anywhere that the bus fare would be refunded in such circumstances. If not then I don't think one can demand anything.

 

[redbutton]

I had a situation once back when my normal commute was Leyton to St Pauls. I got to Leyton and saw the queue running out into the street due to the Central line being suspended, so I took the bus to Stratford for the DLR to Bank. I claimed online and they refunded the entire journey back to my Oyster card under Customer Charter.

When claiming Oyster refunds, it helps that they can see your travel patterns to verify that your claim is consistent with it. (E.g. you're claiming for a journey to or from your home station.)

I've never had a claim denied, even a few times when I openly admitted forgetting to touch in or touch out and was claiming back the difference from a maximum fare.

So yes, the helpline is very helpful and I would suggest contacting them about any Oyster issues.