Trains which will never reach top speed.

[D7666]

Wrexham and Shropshire would only have been allowed to operate them at 110mph, even on the WCML as they do not have tilting capability

True, now you posted that I think that came into the previous discussion as well, it was quite a time back and I can't find it now.

--
Nick

 

[nathanclass323]

Anything on the Derwent Valley as IIRC the maximum speed on the line is 50mph and 75/90mph stock is used.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

SWT's 455s would surely hit 75MPH on the runs to Bournemouth & back. Almost same going for the Junipers.

Ah yes forgot about that! Don't know about Southerns lot though..

 

[Monty]

458s max speed is 100 mph.


SWT or NR may have limited them to 90 mph for some reason, but if so I have never seen that documented.

Where does it say they are limited to 90 ? In the cabs ?

--
Nick

Yep the driving cabs state that 90 is the maximum permitted, why I am not quite sure as I too know they were capable of 100 when they were first introduced.

 

[D7666]

Yep the driving cabs state that 90 is the maximum permitted, why I am not quite sure as I too know they were capable of 100 when they were first introduced.

Thanks.

In the mean time i went searching and found this
http://www.porterbrook.co.uk/images/pic_library/pdf/Class 458.pdf
"Designed for 100 mph, limited to 90 mph with current brake disc"


Now, does anyone know if the same applied to 460s ,obviously before they were disbanded.


--
Nick

 

[Eng274]

Yep the driving cabs state that 90 is the maximum permitted, why I am not quite sure as I too know they were capable of 100 when they were first introduced.

334s have always been 90mph from new, although the literature I have for them says they are designed for 100mph. (In common with 458s and 460s).

Purely conjecture, but perhaps it was decided that the likelihood of 458s getting above 90mph in service was low enough to justify extending the maintenance frequency on the traction equipment due to reduced wear, and lowering the top speed to 90mph.

 

[D365]

Now, does anyone know if the same applied to 460s, obviously before they were disbanded.

Has been repeated many times. Geared for 125mph but designed and rated for 100mph.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

334s have always been 90mph from new, although the literature I have for them says they are designed for 100mph. (In common with 458s and 460s).

Purely conjecture, but perhaps it was decided that the likelihood of 458s getting above 90mph in service was low enough to justify extending the maintenance frequency on the traction equipment due to reduced wear, and lowering the top speed to 90mph.

Fair enough, that sounds.

 

[D7666]

Has been repeated many times. Geared for 125mph but designed and rated for 100mph.

Well I can say I have never ever seen or heard before by anybody say or read or heard a 460 quoted as anything but 100 mph, gearing or otherwise.

Can you cite an authoritative source, such an original makers specification or drawing or technical document ?




--
Nick

 

[fgwrich]

455's have gone up to 75mph a couple of times on the Victoria to Brighton, and a 456 come to think of it. Bet that was a while the last time is saw 75 on the needle??


EDIT has a 31 ever reached 60mph+ before?? hock:

Southerns one's may do on the Selhurst to Eastleigh moves (repainting by Wabtec) though.

31s reaching 60MPH plus? Down a hill maybe? I can answer yes to that as I've had a pair at 90mph, but I've also had the same pair at 100. Dragged mind. But still the fastest they've probably been in a long time!

 

[lewisf]

SWT's 455s would surely hit 75MPH on the runs to Bournemouth & back. Almost same going for the Junipers.

What about the peak Guildford to Waterloo via Cobhams that run fast from Surbiton on the fasts? Surely the 455s must hit 75 on that stretch.

 

[455driver]

Class 458s are currently capable of 90mph (though I do believe 100mph was their design speed) but the fastest they ever do on the Reading line is 70mph.

They do reach 90 when running empty, there are a few that do farnham/Aldershot to Wimbledon and as long as you hold back you can get them up to 90 before throwing the brake in as you have caught up the stopper in front. Um so I am told!

They are actually timed to take over an hour to get from Aldershot to Wimbledon-
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W92662/2013/10/15/advanced

 

[causton]

They do reach 90 when running empty, there are a few that do farnham/Aldershot to Wimbledon and as long as you hold back you can get them up to 90 before throwing the brake in as you have caught up the stopper in front. Um so I am told!

They are actually timed to take over an hour to get from Aldershot to Wimbledon-
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W92662/2013/10/15/advanced

Half an hour of allowances!

 

[455driver]

SWT's 455s would surely hit 75MPH on the runs to Bournemouth & back. Almost same going for the Junipers.

SWT 455s hit 75 on the suburban routes, you can trust me on that one!

Probably the most reliable route is the stoppers that are extended from Woking to Guildford but dont call at Worplesdon, they might not get to 75 on the down but they get there easily on the way from Guildford to Woking, Sundays are the best days for these as they run to and from Guildford all day.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Half an hour of allowances!

Yeah its flippin boring, go above 40 and you catch the train in front.3

 

[TheJRB]

Virtually all the 37x EMUs on Southern/South Eastern are 100mph capable, but the only route passed for 100mph is Tonbridge-Ashford-Sandling (from its days as a Eurostar route).

If you catch a train on the Ashford to Tonbridge line on a Sunday (the one an hour which stops at Hildenborough instead of Pluckley), they can almost certainly reach 100mph between Ashford and Headcorn. Using a GPS based speedometer on my iPhone, I noted 98mph as the top which, given its inaccuracies, could easily have been 100mph.

Needless to say, the good old 08:53 Charing Cross to Ashford would no doubt be a good demonstrator of capable speed (Waterloo East, London Bridge, Tonbridge then fast to Ashford!). A train I wish I could have the opportunity of riding!

 

[IanXC]

Limited to less than that due to the demand of passengers to actually get some sleep

That said I once saw a 90 and a full Highland rake thunder through Rugely Trent Valley at what must have been 90mph+.

It did happen to be about 11am, and the southbound highland did report 333 minutes down!

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That said I once saw a 90 and a full Highland rake thunder through Rugely Trent Valley at what must have been 90mph+.

It did happen to be about 11am, and the southbound highland did report 333 minutes down!

Most times I've used the Sleeper they've done 100mph below Rugby on the London bound leg; the Highland especially, even when on time. I've had at least two arrivals at Euston an hour early on the Lowland.

One of them at least - I think the Highland - is booked at 100mph below Rugby in order to avoid holding up the 390s behind it.

 

[Telcontar]

Midland Main Line — if I understand it correctly, 125 MPH trains on a 110 MPH line. As such, I presume no 222s currently reach their maximum speed, although they would have done on the ECML when four of them belonged to Hull Trains.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Midland Main Line — if I understand it correctly, 125 MPH trains on a 110 MPH line. As such, I presume no 222s currently reach their maximum speed, although they would have done on the ECML when four of them belonged to Hull Trains.

Some still do on the extensions to York. And many more will very soon when there are several linespeed increases.

 

[RobShipway]

I would add any trains in the Thames Valley area between Slough and Reading, a) due to the signal problems over the last few weeks and b) I don't believe between Slough and Taplow that the class 165/1 and class 166's get up to their maximum 90mph?

 

[Eagle]

Midland Main Line — if I understand it correctly, 125 MPH trains on a 110 MPH line. As such, I presume no 222s currently reach their maximum speed, although they would have done on the ECML when four of them belonged to Hull Trains.

Not for long though; there are a tranche of speed increases coming soon that'll see sections of 125 on the MML.

Did the Meridians ever run the London to Burton services? They would have hit 125 between Derby and Burton if so.

 

[Kentish Paul]

If you catch a train on the Ashford to Tonbridge line on a Sunday (the one an hour which stops at Hildenborough instead of Pluckley), they can almost certainly reach 100mph between Ashford and Headcorn. Using a GPS based speedometer on my iPhone, I noted 98mph as the top which, given its inaccuracies, could easily have been 100mph.

Needless to say, the good old 08:53 Charing Cross to Ashford would no doubt be a good demonstrator of capable speed (Waterloo East, London Bridge, Tonbridge then fast to Ashford!). A train I wish I could have the opportunity of riding!

Travel on the good old 08:53 a few times when finishing my last night shift. Makes a change from HS1. Its normally best if delayed by ECS heading to Grove Park. Was once over 15 down at Hither Green but made Ashford 5 early. If on time you catch the Sevenoaks stopper before Dunton Green and the 08:33 ex Charing Cross by Pluckley. If running late its quite a wild ride, particuarly through Sevenoaks!

 

[notadriver]

I would add any trains in the Thames Valley area between Slough and Reading, a) due to the signal problems over the last few weeks and b) I don't believe between Slough and Taplow that the class 165/1 and class 166's get up to their maximum 90mph?

But they will do on longer distance services to Bedwyn/Oxford.

When I started this thread I was thinking of trains (specific classes) that will never reach their top speed on any service because the lines they are on have a lower line speed. So I discount sleepers as the loco will have at some point in its life been on mainline work.

 

[notadriver]

Travel on the good old 08:53 a few times when finishing my last night shift. Makes a change from HS1. Its normally best if delayed by ECS heading to Grove Park. Was once over 15 down at Hither Green but made Ashford 5 early. If on time you catch the Sevenoaks stopper before Dunton Green and the 08:33 ex Charing Cross by Pluckley. If running late its quite a wild ride, particuarly through Sevenoaks!

Haven't had the pleasure of running non stop through Sevenoaks - but on a stopper (Sevenoaks to Tonbridge) it was a very lively ride between the the tunnel and Hildenborough. The 0853 seems to get a lot of time - only 20 minutes is needed Tonbridge to Ashford - I wonder if the signalling allowed faster approaches to Ashford in the old days.

 

[D6975]

EDIT has a 31 ever reached 60mph+ before?? hock:

I know what you mean.
Unbelievably, I've actually timed a pair of 31/4s doing 100mph.
Another basher was taking timings and announced that we were doing the ton, only to be ridiculed (inevitably). But several of us started timing quarter miles and sure enough, we were doing 100.

 

[Kentish Paul]

Haven't had the pleasure of running non stop through Sevenoaks - but on a stopper (Sevenoaks to Tonbridge) it was a very lively ride between the the tunnel and Hildenborough. The 0853 seems to get a lot of time - only 20 minutes is needed Tonbridge to Ashford - I wonder if the signalling allowed faster approaches to Ashford in the old days.

Quite right. Back in pre (Eurostar) rebuild days you could approach Ashford on the down fast at speed and turn into platform 3 (Now Eurostar up platform) from a 40mph turnout at the platform end. Very lively in a 12 coach CEP but no driver ever over did it.
Happy days.

 

[Harbon 1]

Did the Meridians ever run the London to Burton services? They would have hit 125 between Derby and Burton if so.

They definitely used to run those services, very early in the morning up, and vary late down. First and last of the day so they could get to Central Rivers

 

[richard1976]

Do class 483 ever reach there top speed on the island line

 

[shaun]

HST's between Reading and Penzance only get to 110mph, and considerably less West of Exeter. In fact, Exeter (or technically Starcross) all the way to Penzance is absymal with most of it around 60mph. You can drive Exeter - Penzance in two thirds of the time it takes an HST using the recently widened A30 dual-carriageway. An HST using a newly opened railway line following the A30 could potentially complete the journey in 1 hour 30 min against the current 3hr, assuming sensible stops at Okehampton, Launceston, Bodmin and Truro joining the existing line again there. Bound to happen one day isn't it?

Par - Newquay is even slower.

 

[notadriver]

HST's between Reading and Penzance only get to 110mph, and considerably less West of Exeter. In fact, Exeter (or technically Starcross) all the way to Penzance is absymal with most of it around 60mph. You can drive Exeter - Penzance in two thirds of the time it takes an HST using the recently widened A30 dual-carriageway. An HST using a newly opened railway line following the A30 could potentially complete the journey in 1 hour 30 min against the current 3hr, assuming sensible stops at Okehampton, Launceston, Bodmin and Truro joining the existing line again there. Bound to happen one day isn't it?

Par - Newquay is even slower.

This doesn't count as an HST will reach top speed at some point in its lifetime.

 

[Eagle]

In fact it'll reach top speed on the very service you mentioned, between Ealing Broadway and Reading.