Trains which will never reach top speed.

[notadriver]

I want to exclude the Pendolino and class 91+Mk4 sets as they need cab signalling to go faster than 125.

So list includes

Class 357 - 100 mph train on 75 mph route.
Class 379 - 100 mph train on a 90 mph route (and only a small section of that)

Class 90 push pull sets on Norwich-London
- 110 mph loco and 100 mph line speed.

Class 172/0 - 100 mph train. 45 mph line speed.
Class 378 - 75 mph train. 60 mph line speed usually a lot less

Any others please ?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Class 139 is rated at 45mph top speed; I'm pretty sure the Stourbridge branch has a rather lower restriction than that and is in any case sufficiently short that there would be no opportunity to get anywhere near that speed either.

 

[Muzer]

What about 158s on Wessex Main Line (Portsmouth to Cardiff services)? Do they ever reach 90?

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Do the class 67s ever reach 125 mph anywhere on the network?

 

[Starmill]

333s - 100mph capable, but don't get up to this on Airedale/Wharfedale lines?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

333s - 100mph capable, but don't get up to this on Airedale/Wharfedale lines?

AFAIK top speed on the Airedale/Wharfdale lines is 90mph, though they might hit the ton on the (even rarer now the 322s are here) few occasions they run to Doncaster- Unless those are timetabled for 75 in case a pacer has to deputise!

 

[Dieseldriver]

What about 158s on Wessex Main Line (Portsmouth to Cardiff services)? Do they ever reach 90?

Yep, definately between Bath and Bristol, not sure on rest of the route.

 

[The Planner]

Class 139 is rated at 45mph top speed; I'm pretty sure the Stourbridge branch has a rather lower restriction than that and is in any case sufficiently short that there would be no opportunity to get anywhere near that speed either.

45mph in one of them? bloody hell.....

 

[dk1]

390s -140mph but limited to 125mph although still show maximum speed 140 in each driving cab.

 

[Class172]

45mph in one of them? bloody hell.....

I'd have thought it only possible going down a hill!

 

[Monty]

Class 458s are currently capable of 90mph (though I do believe 100mph was their design speed) but the fastest they ever do on the Reading line is 70mph.

 

[158747]

Yep, definately between Bath and Bristol, not sure on rest of the route.

158s also do 90mph Patchway - Severn Tunnel, Severn Tunnel Junction - Newport and Newport - Cardiff

 

[Yew]

90's on the Caledonian sleeper, limited to 100mph because of MK2's in the formation. With 110/125 mph rated locos

 

[evoluzione]

158's on the Caldervale Line Man Vic to Leeds - 70 mph Max and even slower after Hebden Bridge.

 

[507 001]

Class 507/508s, 75mph design speed, 70 mph maximum line speed on the Chester line.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Virtually all the 37x EMUs on Southern/South Eastern are 100mph capable, but the only route passed for 100mph is Tonbridge-Ashford-Sandling (from its days as a Eurostar route).

More important would be a list of cases where the stock used cannot reach line speed, pointlessly eating up capacity.
In this category would come 75mph Pacers/Sprinters used on the 125mph WCML around Wigan/Preston/Lancaster/Carnforth.

 

[notadriver]

Virtually all the 37x EMUs on Southern/South Eastern are 100mph capable, but the only route passed for 100mph is Tonbridge-Ashford-Sandling (from its days as a Eurostar route).

More important would be a list of cases where the stock used cannot reach line speed, pointlessly eating up capacity.
In this category would come 75mph Pacers/Sprinters used on the 125mph WCML around Wigan/Preston/Lancaster/Carnforth.

There used to be a small part of the Brighton main line cleared for 100 mph but in any case class 377s of FCC reach 100 under AC power north of the Thames.

376s can hit their top speed on Sevenoaks journeys and don't forget 375s can hit 100 between Sevenoaks and Tonbridge too

 

[ainsworth74]

Do the class 67s ever reach 125 mph anywhere on the network?

I don't believe so though I was always under the impression that 125mph is a theoretical top speed and they don't actually have clearance to do that. Happy to be corrected however.

90's on the Caledonian sleeper, limited to 100mph because of MK2's in the formation. With 110/125 mph rated locos

Limited to less than that due to the demand of passengers to actually get some sleep

 

[Beveridges]

142's don't reach their top speed on many routes! 75mph rated units, yet capable of reaching over 85mph.

 

[tbtc]

Northern 158s will rarely reach their top speed, due to the number of diesel Northern diagrams that are timed for 75mph units (Pacers, Sprinters) to be on the safe side, as they can't guarantee what stock will be where/ when.

Do 334s get anywhere near 90mph nowadays?

 

[Harlesden]

There is a simple reason for Class 378 never reaching maximum speed. The stations served by the units are in most cases only 2-3 minutes apart. Sharp acceleration/deceleration would be annoying to passengers so a modest speed is maintained in service. A small number of the many freights using the NLL proceed considerably faster than the 378's in service.

 

[matchmaker]

Glasgow & Edinburgh to Cumbernauld, Dunblane, Alloa, etc are all timed for 75mph 156's but many use 158's or 170's.

 

[Eng274]

Northern 158s will rarely reach their top speed, due to the number of diesel Northern diagrams that are timed for 75mph units (Pacers, Sprinters) to be on the safe side, as they can't guarantee what stock will be where/ when.

Do 334s get anywhere near 90mph nowadays?

Not often, possibly on the WCML on Lanark runs south of Law, or if they ever end up on the motherwell/Lanark expresses, they might hit 90 between rutherglen and Motherwell.

 

[Matt Taylor]

What about 158s on Wessex Main Line (Portsmouth to Cardiff services)? Do they ever reach 90?

Bath to Bristol is 90mph, I expect Severn Tunnel Junction to Cardiff is the same.

 

[D7666]

Class 458s are currently capable of 90mph (though I do believe 100mph was their design speed) but the fastest they ever do on the Reading line is 70mph.

458s max speed is 100 mph.


SWT or NR may have limited them to 90 mph for some reason, but if so I have never seen that documented.

Where does it say they are limited to 90 ? In the cabs ?

--
Nick

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Don't forget the 10% overspeed test.

Any modern train, at least from things like 323s 465s, 156s, 158s, onwards, that sort of late BR era, in order to get it's authorised maximum speed signed off the class type must have been physically tested at 10% over speed, so any 100 mph type will have been tested at 110 mph etc.


--
Nick

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't believe so though I was always under the impression that 125mph is a theoretical top speed and they don't actually have clearance to do that. Happy to be corrected however.

I seem to recall 125 mph 67s discussed a while back on another forum.

I am sure someone suggested that when the then Wrexham & Shropshire outfit had some weekends diversions along the WCML they were 125 mph, but a subsequent comment queried if WSR had 125 mph in it's safety case,

--
Nick

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

90's on the Caledonian sleeper, limited to 100mph because of MK2's in the formation. With 110/125 mph rated locos

Referring to a comment I made above, does any operator actually hold a safety case to run 67s on passenger trains at 125 mph ? Even 110 mph ?


I would suggest not

--
Nick

 

[Rich McLean]

458s max speed is 100 mph.


SWT or NR may have limited them to 90 mph for some reason, but if so I have never seen that documented.

Where does it say they are limited to 90 ? In the cabs ?

--
Nick

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Don't forget the 10% overspeed test.

Any modern train, at least from things like 323s 465s, 156s, 158s, onwards, that sort of late BR era, in order to get it's authorised maximum speed signed off the class type must have been physically tested at 10% over speed, so any 100 mph type will have been tested at 110 mph etc.


--
Nick

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---




I seem to recall 125 mph 67s discussed a while back on another forum.

I am sure someone suggested that when the then Wrexham & Shropshire outfit had some weekends diversions along the WCML they were 125 mph, but a subsequent comment queried if WSR had 125 mph in it's safety case,

--
Nick

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---




Referring to a comment I made above, does any operator actually hold a safety case to run 67s on passenger trains at 125 mph ? Even 110 mph ?


I would suggest not

--
Nick

Wrexham and Shropshire would only have been allowed to operate them at 110mph, even on the WCML as they do not have tilting capability

 

[Cherry_Picker]

The DVT is 110mph on those rakes so it's a moot point anyway.

 

[notadriver]

There is a simple reason for Class 378 never reaching maximum speed. The stations served by the units are in most cases only 2-3 minutes apart. Sharp acceleration/deceleration would be annoying to passengers so a modest speed is maintained in service. A small number of the many freights using the NLL proceed considerably faster than the 378's in service.

I don't agree. They accelerate very quickly using full power to line speed and freight trains often have lower speed limits.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Bath to Bristol is 90mph, I expect Severn Tunnel Junction to Cardiff is the same.

IIRC all the 158's on that corridor are timed at 75mph, so a 150 can keep to the timings (seems to be one diagram that is a 150 vice 158 most day's too), however 90mph is useful for timekeeping. Had that once years ago when a 158 covered the usual 153 on the Southampton - Swindon, it arrived into Melksham late, got to Chippenham late but floored it on the GWML to Swindon which saw us gain time for an early arrival!

I've been on the odd 158 that feels a bit slower, probably doing 75 not only for efficiency but probably to save waiting for time at Newport etc.


!72/0 might have done it's top speed when going up to Bromsgrove for it's Lickey trial, Don't know how it got there though.

455's have gone up to 75mph a couple of times on the Victoria to Brighton, and a 456 come to think of it. Bet that was a while the last time is saw 75 on the needle??


EDIT has a 31 ever reached 60mph+ before?? hock:

 

[fgwrich]

IIRC all the 158's on that corridor are timed at 75mph, so a 150 can keep to the timings (seems to be one diagram that is a 150 vice 158 most day's too), however 90mph is useful for timekeeping. Had that once years ago when a 158 covered the usual 153 on the Southampton - Swindon, it arrived into Melksham late, got to Chippenham late but floored it on the GWML to Swindon which saw us gain time for an early arrival!

I've been on the odd 158 that feels a bit slower, probably doing 75 not only for efficiency but probably to save waiting for time at Newport etc.


!72/0 might have done it's top speed when going up to Bromsgrove for it's Lickey trial, Don't know how it got there though.

455's have gone up to 75mph a couple of times on the Victoria to Brighton, and a 456 come to think of it. Bet that was a while the last time is saw 75 on the needle??


EDIT has a 31 ever reached 60mph+ before?? hock:

SWT's 455s would surely hit 75MPH on the runs to Bournemouth & back. Almost same going for the Junipers.