Virgin Trains: Liverpool - London Extra Services

[lfc2014uk]

After the ORR dismissed Virgins application to run new services from Blackpool and Shrewsbury to London Euston.

I've been told that a new application could be submitted as early as 2014 for extra services from Liverpool Lime Street - London Euston making it a half hourly service rather than hourly.

Option 1: To run trains along the same route Liverpool, Runcorn, Stafford, Milton Keynes, London Euston

Option 2: To extend the London Euston - Wolverhampton service via Stafford to Liverpool.

With improvement works taking place at Liverpool Lime Street to platforms especially the announcement that siding 6A next to P7 will be brought back into use as a intercity platform. This would improve the case to the ORR to allow this new service to go ahead.

 

[The Planner]

Improve isn't really the word for it, if they don't do it then the trains won't fit. Though Im not sure how they can extend the EBW services if they want to use them to get around the Shrewsbury problem.

 

[edwin_m]

Aren't they already extending the Wolverhampton trains to Glasgow and Edinburgh?

 

[swt_passenger]

It's probably yet another Liverpudlian's personal cunning plan for 2 tph, let's face it there's a new one every few months...

There's no way they'd announce a platform improvement first and then use that to justify additional services, you'd only do it the other way round once you'd established the passenger demand.

 

[dannypye9999]

I thought they couldn't find paths when ATW wanted to extend their trains to Euston and now all of a sudden there are paths for the new Virgin Liverpool services...

 

[The Planner]

ATW to Euston?? must have missed that one! or are you on about the Marylebone proposal?

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm not sure which proposal you mean but in any case ATW would be 100mph at most, VT will be 125mph meaning it's easier to find paths for VT compared to ATW.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

I thought they couldn't find paths when ATW wanted to extend their trains to Euston and now all of a sudden there are paths for the new Virgin Liverpool services...

The difficult stretch for ATW was Birmingham International to Coventry/Leamington (they never were going to Euston, 90mph 158s would have been stupid).
All these WCML paths are for when the Stafford/Norton Bridge upgrade is complete (2017-ish).
The WCML RUS always talked about extra services from then, but couldn't decide whether they should go to Preston/Blackpool (to accelerate Glasgow services) or to Liverpool, or some mix of both.
In any case there is no stock for more services until VT order some more trains.
The odd Blackpool/Shrewsbury Voyagers being argued about for the current timetable are neither here nor there in the bigger scheme.

 

[Searle]

Aren't they already extending the Wolverhampton trains to Glasgow and Edinburgh?

That was my understanding, yes :P

 

[dk1]

Do the Liverpool's load that well to deserve half-hourly?

I recently caught the 17.07 ex-Euston to Stafford then later caught the 18.33 ex-Euston from Stafford to Crewe. Both where lightly loaded & this was a Friday! What a contrast to the Manchester route with 3tph & often very well loaded throughout the day.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Liverpool Virgin services tend not to be that well loaded IME, LM services on the otherhand do seem rather well used

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Liverpool Virgin services tend not to be that well loaded IME, LM services on the otherhand do seem rather well used

Not from Crewe (LM).
Often quite empty either way.
Everybody gets out at Stafford (from Brum).

 

[JamesRowden]

Perhaps some extra stops would be added to the Euston-Liverpool services in order to make them suitable for 2tph. This could attract more passengers onto the services (passengers travelling to London from those extra stops and passengers travelling from those extra stops to Stafford, Runcorn and Liverpool) of which some would presently be using London Midland services.

 

[dk1]

Pity we can't move Liverpool up the Coast a bit so it could do the honours at Wigan/Warrington to accelerate the Glasgow-Euston by another few minutes.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Perhaps some extra stops would be added to the Euston-Liverpool services in order to make them suitable for 2tph. This could attract more passengers onto the services (passengers travelling to London from those extra stops and passengers travelling from those extra stops to Stafford, Runcorn and Liverpool) of which some would presently be using London Midland services.

The VT off-peak Euston-Liverpools will be stopping additionally at Crewe from December.
Some of us find this a bit baffling.
Apparently it is for pathing reasons rather than a commercial decision.
3tph Stafford-Crewe-Liverpool is overkill.

 

[dannypye9999]

3tph Stafford - Crewe - Liverpool

Still no Stafford - Preston direct then??

 

[dk1]

The VT off-peak Euston-Liverpools will be stopping additionally at Crewe from December.
Some of us find this a bit baffling.
Apparently it is for pathing reasons rather than a commercial decision.
3tph Stafford-Crewe-Liverpool is overkill.

Something to do with the tie up of Brum-Scotland with EBW & the swap around of the MKC call.

 

[calc7]

The VT off-peak Euston-Liverpools will be stopping additionally at Crewe from December.
Some of us find this a bit baffling.
Apparently it is for pathing reasons rather than a commercial decision.

Also takes pressure off the xx10 Chester (on the down).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Also takes pressure off the xx10 Chester (on the down).

That is usually lightly loaded until Crewe.

 

[dk1]

Also takes pressure off the xx10 Chester (on the down).

I know they are only 5-cars but the loadings on the Chester Voyagers seem to be very healthy. Bet that lovely City never thought they'd get an hourly rail link to London.