The Railway: First Great Western on Channel 5

[Hyphen]

Excuse me for being thick but doesn't early mean prior to?

No, "prior to" means "before". In the context used it's a term which relates to the order in which things are done, it doesn't relate to the time in which it happens.

If you advertise that the doors will close 40 seconds before departure, then close them at 14:59:20, you're closing the doors on time. Closing the doors at 14:59:10 would be closing them early.

If you closed the doors at 15:00:10 you'd be closing them late, but you'd still be closing them before departure.

 

[A-driver]

Because you cannot control every aspect of your journey to the station, and there's only so much contingency time you can reasonably leave. The woman in question had a journey of well over an hour to reach the station, and there's a lot can go wrong in the time - and after a long journey with multiple things going wrong (an accident on the motorway, stuck behind a tractor, no parking spaces were there are usually plenty, etc) then you're going to be frustrated if you just get to the platform on time and see the train already locked.

I don't think she was right to take it out on the platform staff, but his patronising "should get out of bed earlier" speech was extremely rude. He has no idea what her journey consists of and why she is late.

As I say, that highlights how un-practicle some peoples commute actually is. I believe on the programme they said she had come in on another train but people have started commuting in to London from further and further away using regional trains to connect with commuter trains leaving very tight connections. Unfortunately these connections won't always work and it's not possible to catch a train into London from some remote areas of the country if you want to arrive at your desk but 9am. You either need to live closer to a commuter hub, have more flexibility when you start work or be prepared to get put if bed considerably earlier and spend longer travelling in to ensure you are there on time.

 

[thelongestroad]

. He has no idea what her journey consists of and why she is late.

As it's been noted already the passenger in question tries to make a 3 minute unadvertised connection.

 

[anthony263]

Which is near impossible to do at Bristol TM during rush hour unless you are just crossing the platform where you may just be able to do it.

It was this ladys fault especially since she is leaving herself very little time to change trains at what is a very busy station. That member of staff I think was giving some pretty blunt honest advice

 

[CC 72100]

Which is near impossible to do at Bristol TM during rush hour unless you are just crossing the platform where you may just be able to do it.

I've made rather tight connections at Bristol TM before - off the 12:23 Plymouth - Leeds (arrives 14:25ish) for the 14:30 HST to Pad from 13, so the biggest possible distance to cover on the station. Now that is tight.

However I'm on a rover, so it's not game over if I don't make this 'connection'

On the subject, Bristol TM's design does not help the matter - if a train has just arrived on any other platform, then you get swamped by all the people heading towards the main ticket hall and exit.

 

[sarahj]

You could have a 15 minute gap between two trains and it still wouldn't be enough time to make the connection thanks to some TOCS and their stations operate!

I was on the 19:54 Southern service from WFJ to CLJ last Friday evening and I had 5 minutes to go from Platform 17 to Platform 13 to catch the 20:38 to TBD, it arrived 1 minute late at WFJ and proceeded towards CLJ at what can only be described as a leisurely pace, it stopped several times and at one time all the lights went, which did not help the mood of the passengers on the train! It limped into CLJ at 20:39 with the conductor to busy cracking jokes about leaving prosthetic limbs on board to actually explain or apologise for the delay. He even intimated that the 20:38 had been held back for passengers by suggesting we get over to Platform 13 sharpish. We did and it had not.

I cannot comment on what held your train, but the WLL line services are not noted for their speed. They have to run on the slow lines, plus when the lights went out, that sometimes happens during the stop when there is the change over from Overhead to third rail. Sometimes trains also get held up behind other ones and the overall reason might not be clear. At the most you can just only apologise for the delay, but not know the exact reason. As for the connection. At 20.38 I doubt they would hold a connection at that time, esp for TBD, it just might have been noted it to was running a odd min late on dep from Victoria, but gained the time by the time it left CLJ.

 

[stut]

As it's been noted already the passenger in question tries to make a 3 minute unadvertised connection.

Ah, in that case I've missed a key piece of information.

And yes, I know that some people do push commuting to the extreme, but again, you don't always have control over your circumstances, particularly if you do consultancy work (where the notion of a single place of work is pretty non-existent) then you can find yourself forced to commute silly distances for months at a time - and you don't always have the option of staying there. You have to go where the work is.

So, unless "leave your job in the middle of a period of mass unemployment when much of the work in your sector is being offshored" is an option, you just have to put up with it.

 

[A-driver]

Ah, in that case I've missed a key piece of information.

And yes, I know that some people do push commuting to the extreme, but again, you don't always have control over your circumstances, particularly if you do consultancy work (where the notion of a single place of work is pretty non-existent) then you can find yourself forced to commute silly distances for months at a time - and you don't always have the option of staying there. You have to go where the work is.

So, unless "leave your job in the middle of a period of mass unemployment when much of the work in your sector is being offshored" is an option, you just have to put up with it.

Quite, you have to 'put up with it' and that could mean missing a 3 min connection by 20seconds because the doors are already closed to ensure that the 600 people already onboard stand the best possible chance of arriving into London on time. It's not really fair to expect those 600 people to be delayed so that one individual can get onboard.

 

[455driver]

you don't always have control over your circumstances, particularly if you do consultancy work (where the notion of a single place of work is pretty non-existent) then you can find yourself forced to commute silly distances for months at a time - and you don't always have the option of staying there. You have to go where the work is.

So, unless "leave your job in the middle of a period of mass unemployment when much of the work in your sector is being offshored" is an option, you just have to put up with it.

How many 'consultants' are there on an average morning peak commuter train?
How many 'office based people' are there on an average morning peak commuter train?

The truth is most people have a fixed work environment and so do have control over these things.
Or is it just a question of you finding a traveller that fits your agenda to make it the railways fault people commute stupidly long distances and sometimes miss a (non) connection!

 

[heart-of-wessex]

I've made rather tight connections at Bristol TM before - off the 12:23 Plymouth - Leeds (arrives 14:25ish) for the 14:30 HST to Pad from 13, so the biggest possible distance to cover on the station. Now that is tight.

However I'm on a rover, so it's not game over if I don't make this 'connection'

On the subject, Bristol TM's design does not help the matter - if a train has just arrived on any other platform, then you get swamped by all the people heading towards the main ticket hall and exit.

I used to always gun for the 07:30 Manchester (unsure if it still is Manchester now) but being direct, I preferred that that waiting for the next direct in an hour or changing at New Street. Only way of getting the 0730 from here was the 0644 service (Saturdays) getting there at 0729 on platform 9, if you were lucky you were let in two minutes earlier widening the gap, but otherwise it would arrive around 07:28 and a half, then I'd bolt over and just make it through the guards local door! This was to Platform 3 by the way

 

[stut]

It's not really fair to expect those 600 people to be delayed so that one individual can get onboard.

I don't. I think the doors should be closed early so the train can leave on time. Where have I said otherwise?

That doesn't stop it from being frustrating when you fail to make the deadline.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How many 'consultants' are there on an average morning peak commuter train?
How many 'office based people' are there on an average morning peak commuter train?

I have absolutely no idea. And yet you seem to:

The truth is most people have a fixed work environment and so do have control over these things.
Or is it just a question of you finding a traveller that fits your agenda to make it the railways fault people commute stupidly long distances and sometimes miss a (non) connection!

Not really. It's my own experience, so naturally I know what it's like to be in this position, and know several other people who are. There's a whole load of different work patterns in there, and the 9-to-5-in-the-same-office routine is becoming less and less commonplace.

But I don't think it's the railway's fault. I think it's extremely frustrating for a passenger who is travelling a long distance, doesn't really want to be, is under a lot of time pressure, and has little control over their circumstances. And a little empathy goes a lot further than a patronising response.

Do you believe it's a case of "stupid passengers they should live nearer work and get up earlier"? Or would that be putting words in your mouth...

 

[455driver]

If the question was this-

Do you believe it's a case of "Some are stupid passengers <and> they should live nearer work and get up earlier"? Or would that be putting words in your mouth...

Then yes, but as 99.9% of passengers (whether regular commuter or not) are perfectly fine and sort themselves out the answer is an emphatic no.

Its the 0.1% that most derogatory comments are aimed at but funnily enough I am also a long distance commuter but as there is no public transport to get me to work (on earlies or get me home when on lates) I have to drive most days (ironic isnt it ), its only when I am on middle shifts that I can commute with the masses and no I could not do that every day thankyou.

Can anyone remember (on 'the tube' I think it was) that commuter in London that had her commute timed to the second including catching the last possible train to get her to work in time and then going off on one when the train was late so she would be late?
I always catch the second to last train (or an ever earlier one) when I do catch the train (and there are only 2 an hour) so to leave it to the very last train when its the underground (so a train every 5 minutes or so) is frankly stupid and shows how self important some people think they are.

 

[stut]

Its the 0.1% that most derogatory comments are aimed at

Sure, but even then, I doubt that it's the same people making the same mistake time and time again. Of course, there's some people out there who believe the world permanently owes them a favour, but I strongly suspect that the majority of people caught out are those making genuine mistakes, whose apparent anger and frustration is triggered by the delay, not necessarily by it.

(Not that I'm excusing venting anger towards, for example, rail staff, far from it.)

I always catch the second to last train (or an ever earlier one) when I do catch the train (and there are only 2 an hour) so to leave it to the very last train when its the underground (so a train every 5 minutes or so) is frankly stupid and shows how self important some people think they are.

Indeed so - and I never understand people who go down to the wire, and then expect other people to sort out their own problem.

But again, you don't know someone's circumstances. For example, currently being a commuter out to the sticks, in a company where most live in the city, I frequently am caught out by the "oh, have you got a quick 5 minutes" when I'm about to leave the office. Sure, I've got a quick 5 minutes, but if it turns into 10 and I end up with a slow journey to the station, I'm going to get home an hour late. And if I've been working late... Well, that turns into a £100+ taxi ride. So no, I wouldn't plan to cut everything that close, but sometimes that just happens. And you know what, I'm going to be pretty upset if I miss that train. Not at the railway, not even at the boss who "borrowed" me on the way out - probably mostly at myself.

 

[455driver]

Sure, but even then, I doubt that it's the same people making the same mistake time and time again.

You would be surprised then.

I do actually think its a problem of the railways own making because trains are now running so close to time (despite what some people would have us believe ) that people think it is viable to assume that the train(s) will always be on time and get really upset when it isnt.

 

[jon0844]

How many 'consultants' are there on an average morning peak commuter train?
How many 'office based people' are there on an average morning peak commuter train?

The truth is most people have a fixed work environment and so do have control over these things.
Or is it just a question of you finding a traveller that fits your agenda to make it the railways fault people commute stupidly long distances and sometimes miss a (non) connection!

I can't see how there can be complaints about people not making tight connections that aren't technically valid. If you make it, fine, it not - well it's not a train you should have ever planned to get in the first place. It's like turning up to your station with the view to getting a certain train, to discover that the earlier train is running a bit late - meaning you can now get it and arrive earlier than you expected. It's a bonus, nothing more.

Of course, if someone misses a connection because a previous train was delayed then there's every reason to be upset. Of course, if you were a consultant going to a job where you'd presumably be getting paid a nice bit of money (if not, as a consultant you can't be very good!) then you'd be going a lot earlier and - if arriving early as a result - sitting in a Starbucks or similar.

If I'm going to an event with a strict start time, I often get to the place 30-45 minutes early so there's no chance of being late and not being let in, or having to stand at the back so I can't sit and type stuff up.

 

[A-driver]

I don't. I think the doors should be closed early so the train can leave on time. Where have I said otherwise?

..

I wasn't suggesting you had said otherwise-I was actually agreeing with you!

 

[Andrewlong]

If you are a 'Consultant' (whatever that means) and you have to be at a location for a breakfast meeting, you travel the night before and your organisation foots the bill.

I have little time for people full of their own self importance that they feel they have to single themselves out for special treatment from the typical commuter.

 

[stut]

I wasn't suggesting you had said otherwise-I was actually agreeing with you!

Ah, fair enough, I've misunderstood again then
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

If you are a 'Consultant' (whatever that means) and you have to be at a location for a breakfast meeting, you travel the night before and your organisation foots the bill.

I have little time for people full of their own self importance that they feel they have to single themselves out for special treatment from the typical commuter.

It doesn't really work like that. Plenty of industries work on a consultancy basis - all it means is that there's a pool of people contracted out to do specific jobs. The pay varies hugely depending on skill and experience - anything from £200 to £2000 a day is very commonplace. There is generally a mix of salaried employees, associates and independent contractors, all of whom will be expected to work within a client organisation for a space of time. This is especially prevalent in IT, where specific skill sets are needed on a temporary basis fairly regularly, particularly when professional services are needed on top of a product purchase.

So yes, there are cases where you have to be there first thing, and so you factor the cost of travel and hotel in, and get there the night before. This is more for sales and pre-sales meetings, to be honest.

For everyday consulting, you're basically doing a working week at the client site. And that can be anywhere. If you're lucky, your employer will have factored in multiple travel options, but generally, it's all done at the lowest cost possible. So, if you've got a 2- or 3-hour commute each way every day for 3 months, they're not paying for a hotel, so you have a choice: pay to be away from your family, or suck it up and commute.

It's stressful and tiring. It doesn't always pay well, and nobody really signs up to consulting to spend 3 months in a business park in the West Midlands. But it's a job.

I don't suggest that commuters working like this deserve special treatment, and have not done so. I don't expect railways or public transport to be built around their specific needs any more than the needs of that size of group dictates.

However, I do think that comments such as "you should have got out of bed earlier", "people commute far too far" and "you should just leave an extra hour" are really missing the point: you don't know a person's circumstances. And the one thing that would make travel significantly more pleasant - without holding trains, delaying passengers, expecting impossible connections or anything like that - would be a little tolerance, patience, and appreciation that people's circumstances vary wildly.

The judgemental tone on this forum (reflected in the wider world) is quite saddening sometimes.

 

[Buttsy]

I tend to go with an 'oh a***' comment when I miss a tight connection that I've planned due to late running. Generally, it is MY fault if I miss a connection that isn't guaranteed and often I don't worry if I miss a train due to a late running earlier train.

The only time I have had to ask for alternative transport was at Lancaster when a late running Virgin XC (it was a few years ago) made me miss my connection to Giggleswick with the next train 4 hours away (and I was walking from Giggleswick to Horton). They put me in a taxi that eventually cost £36 to get to Giggleswick (I had to sign the docket to show the journey had been made).

 

[sonic2009]

Big blunder from the narrator, Thames Turbos been around since the 1960s

 

[northern156]

Big blunder from the narrator, Thames Turbos been around since the 1960s

He said that the engines have been around since the 1960s, not the units themselves.

 

[yorksrob]

Very enjoyable and charming series.

The Southerner in me feels that they could have mentioned the Gunnislake branch's illustrious history as a rival main line though !

 

[Class 92]

What an odd looking turbo that is!

 

[Essexman]

Oh dear, 3 car Turbo seems to be a Voyager. Don;t think that's going to Paddington.

 

[tony6499]

Interesting with the RPI issuing Penalty Fares to the couple with child tickets who admitted buying them to save money. Surely they should have been reported for prosecution ?

 

[Drsatan]

Another continuity error: the HST with the food critics on board turned into a Voyager during its journey. If they had to sample the delights of XC's microwaved offerings I doubt they'd be pleased.

I haven't visited Reading station after the Reading festival has finished, but are the queues for tickets on that day really two hours long? No wonder the few passengers who weren't festival-goers were upset.

 

[6Gman]

Interesting with the RPI issuing Penalty Fares to the couple with child tickets who admitted buying them to save money. Surely they should have been reported for prosecution ?

And did I hear the RPI referring to it as a "fine"?

 

[anthony263]

And did I hear the RPI referring to it as a "fine"?

Yes you did hear correctly

 

[GodAtum]

being a Driver manager sounds like the best job in the world, driving a train to work lol!

 

[SkinnyDave]

Are the two brothers that are Driver Managers both High Speed Services Managers?