Most amount of timetable padding?

[heart-of-wessex]

Hello all,

As we know, the last stop is most likely to have padding, when you think you've arrived in Birmingham New Street 5 minutes early on an ex-Hereford terminator, you've basically arrived on time. Local/metro services seem to generally have about a minute or two spare.

2-5 minutes is about the average, but does anyone know of some rather excessive padding?

I once remember early this year on a Sunday when part the GOBLIN was shut for the morning only, and South Tottenham - Gospel Oak shuttles were running. Anyway, from South Tottenham to Harringay Green Lanes, it was given no more than 2 minutes, which is doable with the 172. However, from Harringay Green Lanes to South Tottenham, it was given 7 minutes to do the 1 mile 8 chains distance

I also seem to recall some other odd differences in the WTT/Public timetables for the last Waterloo FGW HST diversions. I believe it was something to do with the train's being timetabled to leave 20 minutes later from Waterloo in the Working Timetable compared to the public times? (I.E Working timetable: Waterloo depart 0920, Public Timetable 0900)

Anyone know of a lot of padding, especially for short distances?

 

[Tomnick]

Not 'padding', but the first Up train off Leicester (1C01), diverted via Melton this week, has a total of 26 minutes' worth of allowances (mainly pathing) in the first 75 minutes of its journey.

 

[bb21]

You may be interested in this thread.

 

[louis97]

I also seem to recall some other odd differences in the WTT/Public timetables for the last Waterloo FGW HST diversions. I believe it was something to do with the train's being timetabled to leave 20 minutes later from Waterloo in the Working Timetable compared to the public times? (I.E Working timetable: Waterloo depart 0920, Public Timetable 0900)

Not quite as big as you say, but around 7-8 minutes, For example 1759 Public Departure time was 1807 Working Departure time.

 

[gordonthemoron]

last mon-fri up East Coast service is timed to take 1h18m from Peterborough to Kings Cross which is about 20 mins longer than normal, presumably to allow it to go via Hertford?

 

[Buttsy]

When doing the Swansea & District a few years back (2009 I think) I was right time leaving Llanelli and roughly 40 mins early into Cardiff...I found out later that the timing is to allow for the service to follow a freight train twice a week. At least it gave me plenty of time to nip back to Bridgend to do the Vale Of Glamorgan an hour earlier than I expected.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Rather than introduce 'padding' into the timetable between stops, the daily southbound Highland Chieftan is simply scheduled to stand in platform 2 at Edindurgh Waverley for 13 minutes before continuing.

 

[trc666]

The Easter FGW diversions at Waterloo had a 8 minute difference in WTT and public departure times, for example most of the services were advertised as xx:59 but WTT was xx:07.

Canonbury - Highbury & Islington has a bit of padding for ELL trains, some are allowed up to 8 minutes for a journey that takes just over 1 minute.

 

[WelshBluebird]

I can't give specific numbers, but the Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff services have quite a lot of padding in the timetable. Lost time is often easily made up before the service reaches Cardiff (I believe it is timetabled to sit at Bristol Temple Meads for around 10 minutes).

 

[ushawk]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W72401/2013/10/04/advanced

First train from Brighton to London Victoria is shown to leave in the public timetable at 0350 but actually doesnt leave until 0415 - the time is there to allow for a diversion via Lewes.

 

[D6975]

Bristol TM - Pads are timetabled to do TM-Bath in 13 mins, dep to dep times.

Coming the other way, dep Bath to arr TM is anything up to 20 mins (06:50 ex Pad)

Back in the late 80s, the 12:50 Oban - Q St used to be ridiculously padded. It was booked to be a fairly tight connection (15:58/16:03 IIRC) into the 16:03 Arbroath, but always made by miles. Once I was 25 late from Dumbarton and still made the Arbroath.
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I can't give specific numbers, but the Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff services have quite a lot of padding in the timetable. Lost time is often easily made up before the service reaches Cardiff (I believe it is timetabled to sit at Bristol Temple Meads for around 10 minutes).

The Pompeys are actually quite tightly timed at TM, typically 5 mins which considering that they reverse isn't excessive. (xx : 34 off Bath, xx: 48 off TM, 14 mins including the time to travel the 11 1/2 miles ) It's the Weymouth - Gt Malverns that have the long turnrounds, typically 10 mins plus.

 

[AJP62]

Rather than introduce 'padding' into the timetable between stops, the daily southbound Highland Chieftan is simply scheduled to stand in platform 2 at Edindurgh Waverley for 13 minutes before continuing.

Sometimes on long journeys this is for watering purposes - can that be done at Waverley?

When the Clansman was a full set Euston - Inverness it had similar stops at Carlisle both ways and the hoses that lay between platforms 3 and 4 were used to top it up.

 

[swt_passenger]

The Easter FGW diversions at Waterloo had a 8 minute difference in WTT and public departure times, for example most of the services were advertised as xx:59 but WTT was xx:07.

Apparently that was intentionally done to fix a journey planner issue which would have caused people to use SWT as far as Basingstoke and then change onto the diverted HST. By making it apparently faster than it really was, it stopped people being advised of an unneccesary change.

Don't know the exact details but it's something like that...

 

[telstarbox]

Makes sense, especially as with diversions you have passengers who don't necessarily know how the trains work away from the normal route.

 

[Searle]

if you want the most amount of padding per carriage (a completely valid form of measurement, honest!), then the Newark North Gate to Grimsby EM trains have about 10 minutes at Lincoln with only 1 carriage on them

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P47369/2013/10/04/advanced

 

[edwin_m]

Shame they couldn't use some of that padding to make the seats a bit softer.

 

[Bedpan]

Rather than introduce 'padding' into the timetable between stops, the daily southbound Highland Chieftan is simply scheduled to stand in platform 2 at Edindurgh Waverley for 13 minutes before continuing.

And 9 mins in the down direction. When I've used it, it always been a welcome break to allow me to stretch my legs. Would be interesting to know if its to allow time to be made up if its been running late, or whether it would stop for all or nearly all of the booked time (for restocking ands rewatering, for instance) if it arrived at Waverley 10 minutes late.

 

[221129]

The Night Riviera Sleeper. So much padding it has left Plymouth 102 late and arrived into Paddington 7 early!

 

[The Planner]

Sleeper is down to a myriad of things though, enough slack to cover a multitude of routes and it is only timed at a slow speed anyway. Go quicker and it makes time up easily.

 

[swt_passenger]

And 9 mins in the down direction. When I've used it, it always been a welcome break to allow me to stretch my legs. Would be interesting to know if its to allow time to be made up if its been running late, or whether it would stop for all or nearly all of the booked time (for restocking ands rewatering, for instance) if it arrived at Waverley 10 minutes late.

It was apparently to fit it into the available path north of, and the standard clockface path south of Waverley.

There's far too much info on ORR's website to search for the details now, but I'm pretty sure it was a compromise with the so-called ECML 'Eureka timetable', to avoid having to retime Scotrail services...

 

[noddingdonkey]

Not quite the same, but TPE's overnight services to Manchester Airport are booked via diversion routes for crew route retention reasons. Apparently from time to time the booked route isn't possible (perhaps due to engineering work on that route or a driver/guard who doesn't sign it) so they take the direct route and have to sit at Piccadilly for 35 minutes.

 

[Southern Dvr]

At one point Saturday night Virgin services to London had so much padding that online journey planners suggested changing at Watford Jnc onto Silverlink services!

 

[dvboy]

Not quite the same, but TPE's overnight services to Manchester Airport are booked via diversion routes for crew route retention reasons. Apparently from time to time the booked route isn't possible (perhaps due to engineering work on that route or a driver/guard who doesn't sign it) so they take the direct route and have to sit at Piccadilly for 35 minutes.

I've experienced the same on the 2330 London Euston - Wolverhampton that normally runs on the slow lines out of London, but has run fast and then sat at Milton Keynes Central for a good half hour.

 

[ValleyLines142]

I can't give specific numbers, but the Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff services have quite a lot of padding in the timetable. Lost time is often easily made up before the service reaches Cardiff (I believe it is timetabled to sit at Bristol Temple Meads for around 10 minutes).

Portsmouth to Cardiff services normally arrive at Temple Meads at 48 minutes past. They only leave Bath at 36 minutes past so it's not quite ten minutes, but there's six minutes allocated because of the driver needing to change ends.

I was on the 1515 Taunton to Cardiff on Friday which was allocated twenty-five minutes to run between Newport and Cardiff!

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Shame they couldn't use some of that padding to make the seats a bit softer.

LOL!!!! ! That's a good one!


Interesting to see the different amounts of padding though, don't know where I got that 20 minutes thing at Waterloo from, but thank's for confirming what it actually was

Is the sleeper one driver throughout or is there a driver change? I was wondering if the long durations at Plymouth/Exeter etc are for driver breaks too (if it's the same one throughout) and if it's late, I assume he/she will stop for a fair bit at at least one stop for a break?

Otherwise making up time is going as fast as you are permitted, presuming sleepers can't chase time at 95mph for comfort reasons?

 

[ryan125hst]

Otherwise making up time is going as fast as you are permitted, presuming sleepers can't chase time at 95mph for comfort reasons?

I'm sure I've read somewhere that they are timed for 80mph but can run at up to 100mph if they are running 20 minutes late or more.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

I'm sure I've read somewhere that they are timed for 80mph but can run at up to 100mph if they are running 20 minutes late or more.

Or 95 I suppose, max speed of 57/6's, unless it's downhill

 

[ryan125hst]

Or 95 I suppose, max speed of 57/6's, unless it's downhill

Of course! I have just realised that what I have read was referring to the Caledonian Sleeper which uses Class 90's

I would think similar rules would apply though. Is there anyone here who works on the Night Riviera?

 

[dk1]

The 23.30 Liverpool St - Norwich can arrive 20 early if there are no sections of overnight SLW. Until a few years ago it could be earlier still as it was set-down only en-route and you would go like hell to get done. Now it picks up all the p*ssheads at Colchester & Ipswich disturbing the other passengers & leaving the damn doors open at Manningtree, Stow & Diss

 

[Tetchytyke]

2200 Kings Cross to Newcastle is pretty bad. It sits at York for 26 minutes, and then has pathing allowances of 10 minutes between York and Darlington, and then 20 minutes between Durham and Newcastle. And even though it is set down only after York, the last time I was on it it waited time at Darlo and Durham