Local Cross - Border (International) Services

[reb0118]

I remember a list of local cross border services in the EU ~ past, present, & potential ~ but can no longer find it on t'internet.

e.g It listed the former link between Comines (Fr) & Comines/Komen (BE)

I am not sure if it was an official EU document or that of some pressure group. In general it was decrying the lack of decent local cross border services and highlighting the decline of those that do/did exist.

Over to you.................

 

[atillathehunn]

There is Maastricht (NL) to Liege (BE) which is designated an L-train and is just a 2-car EMU.

There is also the Heerlen - Herzongenrath - Aachen train which is a local train.

 

[Gordon]

.

The famous site for cross-border lines is Trainspotting Bukkes:

http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/lines.php

However, that doesn't really include long gone crossings such as Comines.


It is always worth doing an internet search for railway routes on Wikipedia. Always best to try searching in the local language. For Comines, I searched for ”Lille - Comines France sncf Wikipedia” and got the hit for the correct Wikipedia page.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_de_La_Madeleine_à_Comines-France

On most railway line French Wikipedia pages you will fins a line diagram. IN the statistics box on the right hand side of the page, go to the bottom and look for Schema de la ligne ’afficher’.

If you click on the ‘afficher’ the line diagram comes up.

If you look at this you will see that the bridge over the river Lys between the two Comines stations was destroyed, presumably during World War II

Coincidentally, if you then follow the links on that line diagram you can link to Infrabel Line 69 which goes to Poperinge.

http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ligne_69_(Infrabel)

That line itself used to carry on over the border back into France at Abeele (and on to Hazebrouck)

 

[30907]

There is Maastricht (NL) to Liege (BE) which is designated an L-train and is just a 2-car EMU.

There is also the Heerlen - Herzongenrath - Aachen train which is a local train.

Not to mention the "RE" Aachen-Liege worked by the oldest units in Belgium because nothing else is authorised - it replaced the nice Oostende-Koeln service pre Thalys/ICE.

That one apart, cross-border routes involving Germany are increasing both in number and frequency, though I seem to recall reading that the Enschede-Bad Bentheim shuttle is disappearing this winter.

 

[WestCoast]

The DB/CFL service between Trier (Germany) and Luxembourg is currently an RB local service, operated by DB and CFL 2 car class 628s DMUs, sometimes coupled together. Sometimes CFL Dostos also run on the service, when it extends once or twice daily along the Mosel Line to Bullay. The eventual plan, if i understand it correctly, is to have the service running hourly from Luxembourg to Koblenz (for connections to Cologne, Rhein/Ruhr, Mainz, Frankfurt etc), with new CFL Stadler KISS units coupling up on the way to Koblenz with DB equivalents at Trier, coming in on the RE1 from Saarbruecken. One to watch with interest IMO.

 

[Techniquest]

Not to mention the "RE" Aachen-Liege worked by the oldest units in Belgium because nothing else is authorised - it replaced the nice Oostende-Koeln service pre Thalys/ICE.

I'm sure the 'Break' EMUs are also able to go over, also the AM08s should be authorised too (I'm going on vague memory of what the P5 book says, could be wrong) when they finally get into service enough to finally bin the 'Beetroot' AM62s to the bin once and for all. Hate the 'Beetroots' with a passion, the other AM62s and their sister types are much nicer. 265 is hugely horrible in comparison to 662 for instance, indeed I didn't feel as safe on 265 as I did on 662 when I did the Spa-Geronstere branch earlier this year. So imagine my sheer disgust when I had 'Beetroot' 178 from Welkenradt to Aachen that same day!

Compare and contrast that border crossing to the Hertzogenrath to Heerlen border crossing, on which I had RB 643s doing the honours. FAR superior units in terms of looks, secure feeling and ability to move. The PIS was also very much welcomed by me, especially since I had never previously been to Germany!

That one apart, cross-border routes involving Germany are increasing both in number and frequency, though I seem to recall reading that the Enschede-Bad Bentheim shuttle is disappearing this winter.

I take it there is still going to be some provision on that route to enable people to get over to Germany from that corner of NL?

 

[WestCoast]

The DB/CFL service between Trier (Germany) and Luxembourg is currently an RB local service, operated by DB and CFL 2 car class 628s DMUs, sometimes coupled together. Sometimes CFL Dostos also run on the service, when it extends once or twice daily along the Mosel Line to Bullay. The eventual plan is to have the service running hourly from Luxembourg to Koblenz (for connections to Cologne, Rhein/Ruhr, Mainz, Frankfurt etc), with CFL dostos coupling up on the way to Koblenz with DB equivalents at Trier, coming in on the RE1 from from Saarbruecken. One to watch IMO.

 

[radamfi]

I've done the Weert to Neerpelt line about 10 years ago when it ran specially for the Belgian 'Train Tram Bus' day, where you could get unlimited travel on all public transport in Belgium for a few euros.

 

[Techniquest]

The DB/CFL service between Trier (Germany) and Luxembourg is currently an RB local service, operated by DB and CFL 2 car class 628s DMUs, sometimes coupled together. Sometimes CFL Dostos also run on the service, when it extends once or twice daily along the Mosel Line to Bullay. The eventual plan is to have the service running hourly from Luxembourg to Koblenz (for connections to Cologne, Rhein/Ruhr, Mainz, Frankfurt etc), with CFL dostos coupling up on the way to Koblenz with DB equivalents at Trier, coming in on the RE1 from from Saarbruecken. One to watch IMO.

Worth pointing out the CFL dostos (usually pushed/pulled by CFL Class 3000 or Class 4000 locos) also turn up on Luxembourg (L) to Arlon (B) cross-border services. Also, unless I've mis-understood you, CFL don't have any Class 628s. Similar Class 2000 EMUs yes, and a Google Images search gives me the impression the Class 628s aren't too bad by the looks of it for comfort. Even so, I'd rather do the border through Trier on an IC service. Not sure if the rather decent Class 2200 double-decker EMUs are used by CFL on the local services to Trier, not really seen those.

The nicest way to cross to Arlon is the SNCB services though (class number escapes my memory right now, will no doubt remember it later) as those EMUs are surprisingly decent for comfort.

 

[stut]

Although there are cross-border TGVs at Hendaye/Irun, the local trains run on a separate, narrow gauge track. This is now officially designated as a Metro (the Metro Donostialdea). Are there any other cross-border metro systems in operation (now that Germany is reunited...)?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

It's very odd between Cerbère (F) and Portbou (E).
SNCF and RENFE local trains both cross to the other side, but then return empty to their border station.
So you have to go south on an SNCF service and north on RENFE, instead of having a choice with double the number of services.

The SNCF route is standard gauge and the RENFE route is broad gauge, with freight interchange yards at both border stations cut into the steep hillside at right angles to the main line.
The only through passenger service these days is a single RENFE Talgo train Montpellier-Barcelona, but there appears to be a lot of freight.
The stations are both huge, having been built for large numbers of people to go through customs and immigration, whereas these days there are no formalities at all thanks to Schengen.

When I was at Portbou a class of schoolchildren was being taught while sitting cross-legged at the end of one platform, in an area once patrolled by gun-toting frontier police.

I think the same cross-border arrangements apply at Hendaye-Irun at the other end of the Pyrenees.

 

[radamfi]

Although there are cross-border TGVs at Hendaye/Irun, the local trains run on a separate, narrow gauge track. This is now officially designated as a Metro (the Metro Donostialdea). Are there any other cross-border metro systems in operation (now that Germany is reunited...)?

Are you counting light rail (tram-train) systems like Saarbrücken, which goes into France?

 

[Gordon]

Are you counting light rail (tram-train) systems like Saarbrücken, which goes into France?

Neither the Saarbrucken nor the Hendaye Metre gauge is really a 'metro' in the city underground sense of the word. The Hendaye line is the former 'Topo' - interurban tramway - and it is in character really still an interurban. Saarbrucken is a converted standard gauge cross-border railway. I recall seeing DB class 23 steam hauled passenger trains on the same track!

The BLT line Basel - Rodersdorf is an example of a cross border tramway.

 

[gordonthemoron]

Salzburg S-Bahn goes into Germany (Freilassing and possibly Berchtesgaden)

 

[stut]

Are you counting light rail (tram-train) systems like Saarbrücken, which goes into France?

We can count that if you like

I guess the Metro designation of the 'Topo' line comes down to a matter of marketing - Euskotren want the line to be seen as San Sebastian's metro system (as opposed to Renfe's Aldirikoak Donostia).

If we're looking at S-Bahn type systems, though, there are several, including:

Basel - covering Switzerland, France and Germany
OSB (Ortenau S-Bahn) - covering France (Strasbourg) and Germany
Tyrol S-Bahn - goes to the Austro-Italian border at Brenner - although strictly speaking doesn't cross it

I guess the international local service I travel on most often is the Øresundståg between Denmark and Sweden. It is, however, quite a hybrid service, being entirely local on the Danish side, but going fairly inter-city (Gothenburg is quite a long haul!) on the Swedish side. The carriages have a layout that is more inter-city than local.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I wonder how many there are outside the EU..?

I can think of a few that terminate right at the border (e.g. San Diego trolley, Hong Kong MTR/Shenzhen Metro) but none that actually cross it. Perhaps Vancouver and Seattle will get round to connecting their systems one day!

 

[gordonthemoron]

There's an S-bahn from Lindau (Germany) to Bregenz (Austria) and beyond, don't know if it reaches switzerland

 

[317666]

There's an S-bahn from Lindau (Germany) to Bregenz (Austria) and beyond, don't know if it reaches switzerland

One of the lines goes to St. Margrethen after Bregenz, which is just inside Switzerland.

 

[reb0118]

There's an S-bahn from Lindau (Germany) to Bregenz (Austria) and beyond, don't know if it reaches switzerland

One of the lines goes to St. Margrethen after Bregenz, which is just inside Switzerland.

That is true, I will be there in November. It is odd that in some places you can cross four borders* in a couple of hours by public transport but in others it can take hours to go a few miles across one!

* In November we will be doing a circular trip from Lindau crossing the border to Switzerland (Ferry); Liechtenstein (Bus); Austria (R-Bahn); & Germany (S-Bahn).

 

[30907]

I take it there is still going to be some provision on that route to enable people to get over to Germany from that corner of NL?

The Berlin-Amsterdam IC service continues, operated by NS with DB stock (and engine change at Bad Bentheim still?) The shuttle I mentioned (actually to Hengelo, sorry!) is run by Bentheimer Eisenbahn and hasn't been going long. And there's a half-hourly NS local that terminates at Oldenzaal, the last station in NL

 

[Mike395]

OSB (Ortenau S-Bahn) - covering France (Strasbourg) and Germany

This is an interesting one, as there are two operators who run the exact same route - TER Alsace also run over this line (I think the services are about 50/50 between the two operators )

 

[duncanp]

There are local services from Lille to Brugge, Oostende, Gent, Antwerp, Liege, Namur and Charleroi.

Line 2 of the Lille Metro terminates at CH Dron in Tourcoing, only just over the border, and in the same area there are several cross border bus routes. (Roubaix - Mouscron)

In Basel, one of the city tram routes crosses into French territory (with a stop there) before crossing back into Switzerland. Other tram routes terminate very close to the French and German borders.

 

[nw1]

Salzburg S-Bahn goes into Germany (Freilassing and possibly Berchtesgaden)

Not Berchtesgaden, at least not in 2011 - the line was run by a self-contained service to/from Freilassing (the BLB) which I think was independent of DB - though there was one through loco-hauled train a day to and from somewhere in the north of Germany.

In vaguely the same area doesn't the Innsbruck S-Bahn go to Mittenwald?

 

[gordonthemoron]

In vaguely the same area doesn't the Innsbruck S-Bahn go to Mittenwald?

No, only DB

 

[30907]

Actually OBB (class 4024 emu) currently operate this service but labelled as R/REX (it alternates with the S5 to Scharnitz). Permission for the old DB sets (class 111+stock) expired around Easter. But I think when the new DB emus are authorised it will revert to running through to Munich and be DB as before.

 

[nw1]

Actually OBB (class 4024 emu) currently operate this service but labelled as R/REX (it alternates with the S5 to Scharnitz). Permission for the old DB sets (class 111+stock) expired around Easter. But I think when the new DB emus are authorised it will revert to running through to Munich and be DB as before.

Wasn't aware the Munich-Garmisch-Innsbruck had been split, it was certainly running as a through service in July 2012 (but obviously that was before Easter...)

How long have the loco and coaches got left on that line? I used it in 2009 and found it quite a novelty that loco and coaches were operating a (relatively) local service like this - though it seems much more common in Germany than here.

 

[jamesontheroad]

There's another service much closer to home that has been overlooked so far.

Iarnród Éireann operate a single early morning weekday "Commuter" service from Newry in Northern Ireland to Bray, south of Dublin (timetable pdf). It departs Newry at 0645, Dundalk 0710 and Drogheda 0736.

As I recall, the stock operates empty northbound to Newry, and there is no equivalent return service in the evening. This is only scheduled "local" train to cross the border; all Enterprise services originate in Dublin or Belfast.

 

[30907]

Wasn't aware the Munich-Garmisch-Innsbruck had been split, it was certainly running as a through service in July 2012 (but obviously that was before Easter...)

How long have the loco and coaches got left on that line? I used it in 2009 and found it quite a novelty that loco and coaches were operating a (relatively) local service like this - though it seems much more common in Germany than here.

IIRC the replacement stock already exists but is still not approved for use.
I like the single-deck n-Wagen (even if a lot have standard mu seating) but they are getting elderly and are disappearing as services are re-tendered - not least because they are not accessible.

 

[Frothy]

I could point out the local service between Geneva (Switzerland) and Bellegarde (France), run using Swiss stock and crews, calling at all shacks. The service is set to increase in the next few years, especially with the introduction of the CEVA rail link and a new suburban cross-border metro-like rail system.

 

[valedave]

Vogtlandbahn runs several services into Czech Republic, including Marktredwitz/Plauen-Cheb & Zwickau-Karlovy Vary.

There's also the ČD service between Decin and Bad Schandau.

Another interesting one is the restoration of the border line running between Sebnitz in Saxony and Dolní Poustevna (completion: 2014). The purpose is to reduce travel time between that corner of Bohemia (particularly the town of Rumburk) and Decin, which is the local administrative hub. Instead of having to head through the mountains via Ceska Kamenice services will travel from Sebnitz down to Bad Schandau and along the Elbe to Decin, cutting journey times from Rumburk to Decin from 1.5 hours to 45 minutes.

There's also the hourly Trilex service (part of Vogtlandbahn) between Liberec and Seifhennersdorf which starts in the Czech Republic, enters but doesn't stop in Poland, enters Germany to stop at Zittau/Heinerwalde/etc., continues back in the Czech Republic at Varnsdorf and then terminates back in Germany at Seifhennersdorf. I make that four border crossings in just over an hour.

Lastly there's the Zittau-Cottbus service that crosses the Neisse, and therefore the border between Poland and Germany, on four separate occasions, but only stops once in Poland (Krzewina Zgorzelecka).

 

[reb0118]

Yes, there seem to be lots of rail crossings amongst the provinces of Silesia, Bohemia, Saxony, & Bavaria.

I will be crossing from Bavaria to Bohemia at Bayerisch/Böhmisch Eisenstein & from Bohemia to Saxony at Breitenbach/Johanngeorgenstadt this November. My rail map (facsimile) of the area dates back to times of the Austro - Hungarian Empire. It is amazing how many of these lines are still in existence and providing a service.

In fact if shown a map of Europe one could easily make out the position of Bohemia even if all other details except rail lines were removed simply by the density of said lines.