GCSEs

[WestCoast]

Hmm but picking the subjects you love rather than going for the ones you should isn't going to get you a job. As I've learnt. Fortunately I've taken a different 'path' and chosen engineering which I also enjoy, as much as sociology but far more useful.

However, as others have alluded to, picking "hard" academic subjects is not simply the pathway to a "good" job. You have to do well in them and also demonstrate that your skills and experience extend beyond your academic qualifications, whether that be post A-Level or after completing a degree.

I went to an 'academic' school with a lot of bright individuals and found there to be much emphasis on going to University, with very little guidance for those who wanted to enter employment after leaving school. Perhaps it was because those teachers all went down the University route. Some of the less academically gifted pupils in traditional disciplines, IMHO, could have benefited enormously from the opportunity of Apprenticeships at an earlier age. As we all know, this country has a lack of those and where they are available, they simply aren't promoted in some schools as a credible alternative to higher Education.

I did English Literature, German, Government & Politics and Business Studies at A-Level, I think the latter is included in the "soft" subjects list. I took it because I wanted to take a comprehensive Business degree (I do a joint-honours course with Modern Languages at Russell Group Uni), and I have found, like Mojo, that it has made life easier for me in that respect. So it all depends on what you want to do after.

So my perspective is that you don't necessarily have to take all hardcore academic subjects, tailor it to what you're good at and will enjoy. I'm not especially strong in mathematical-based tasks, but I simply recognised this and adapted my subject choices accordingly. Those who didn't IME came out with far worse A-Levels than I did (A*ABB), plus an A in General Studies (which I don't include).

What also makes me laugh is those in the upper levels of the education system who expect to get a job without any experience of employment. There are a surprisingly high number of them who've never had a part-time job or some sort of credible placement and therefore have very little to put on their CV. I've had various jobs since I was 16 (placements, leisure work, retail work) and have held down a placement and a part-time job in my summer break from University this year. It is harder than people realise to secure work like this, but you have to be driven and determined to succeed. I feel by doing this, while I may miss out on the opportunity to "chill", I beef up my CV and demonstrate to future potential employers in the industry I want to work in that I'm not just another 'wet behind the ears' social sciences graduate.

 

[Mojo]

What also makes me laugh is those in the upper levels of the education system who expect to get a job without any experience of employment. There are a surprisingly high number of them who've never had a part-time job or some sort of credible placement and therefore have very little to put on their CV. I've had various jobs since I was 16 (placements, leisure work, retail work) and have held down a placement and a part-time job in my summer break from University this year. It is harder than people realise to secure work like this, but you have to be driven and determined to succeed. I feel by doing this, while I may miss out on the opportunity to "chill", I beef up my CV and demonstrate to future potential employers in the industry I want to work in that I'm not just another 'wet behind the ears' social sciences graduate.

Further to this, I'd also say that after A Levels I took a year out of education, stayed at home, and got a full time job. I'd never had a "proper" job before, so this experience was invaluable and was definitely of use for me when it came to applying for part-time work during University. Further though, I had managed to save several thousands of pounds which certainly helped see me through University!

Certainly for someone who has no work experience and wants to go on to University I'd recommend it for the experience alone, but the money certainly helps! If you've perhaps had part-time work experience during your A Levels then it's probably less essential.

 

[PaxVobiscum]

Just found out via email that I've gained a merit in my Grade 5 Organ exam — I am very happy today. hock:

Just noticed this post. Well done! There's a few of us lurking about.

May I Echo the sentiments of the others who said Great, Swell and other words to that effect.

(Sorry, I'll go and Pedal my rotten puns elsewhere).

 

[HST Power]

A little bump for this thread.....

I've just started the AS History course, beginning with the model on Italian Unification. We have only outlined the programme so far, studying has not officially commenced yet, but can anyone recommend some good reading concerning this subject? I have trawled through various Wikis and teacher notes on Mussolini, Fascism and the development of the Cosa Nostra, but if we have any past students who could recommend early reading, please do so!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Sadly, this is a reflection on the short-sightedness of employers these days. If (and I agree this is a big "if") the degree is genuinely a degree-level qualification, the recipient has shown tenacity, order, a willingness to learn and put learning into practice, etc etc. All these qualities are what employers should be looking for, and the best ones are. It is utter rubbish to say you need a "relevant" qualification. Degree level IT to work in an IT department? You'd spend most of your early years unlearning what you learnt. Same for Maths in Finance, or Art in Advertising. Even Law doesn't require a law degree. Give me an intelligent youngster with enthusiasm who can think, write, and communicate anyday.

May I enter into this thread as one of 68 years of age to speak from the perspective of how matters were in the early 1960's for me. I had been blessed with a secondary education at one of the top Manchester grammar schools, St Bede's College, and Classics (Greek and Latin) and Mathematics were very strong subjects of mine and I enjoyed every other subject that I studied, unlike some posters. In those far-off days the General Certificate of Education at both "O" and "A" levels then were not the grades as given today, but those of Distinction, Credit and Pass. I obtained 12 passes at "O" level with Distinctions in Mathematics, Greek, Latin, Music, English Language, English Literature and in History. I then studied and obtained 5 passes at the Advanced level, all at the highest grade, in Mathematics, both the Classics subjects and the two differing English subjects.

I studied at Manchester University as it had a very good reputation in Mathematics and obtained my First in Mathematics there.

Why I am giving these subjects as examples, when it came to seeking employment in 1966, on leaving University, I noted that having studied Mathematics, Classics and the two core English subjects was seen as to have been a good example of studying a wide ranging subject base that was said at one interview to have "mind stretching" qualities by one elderly ex-academic who was a director of his company.

I have worked in a number of totally differing industries in my working life up to my retirement in 2010 and at a senior level since my mid-30's. All I will say that you will find some employers will look at the ability to study subjects with strengths in Mathematics and English coupled with other wide ranging traditionally accepted academic subjects of a wide range to evaluate your ability to be stretched by the combination of these and to have the strength of mind to have fully applied yourself to the ensuranance of total application to all of the subjects, as this will be seen as a reflection on your ability to cope with the stresses of life in industry that will undoubtedly occur in your employment.

Sorry if I have lived up to my forum reputation for being elderly, pedantic and long-winded, but I trust that I have made the points that have been applicable to me as an example to our younger forum members of what was the case some fifty years ago but will still be seen by employers today as being needed to succeed in a chosen career and to cope with the stresses of employment life that are far more demanding these days than has been the case in previous times.

 

[TOCDriver]

May I enter into this thread as one of 68 years of age to speak from the perspective of how matters were in the early 1960's for me. I had been blessed with a secondary education at one of the top Manchester grammar schools, St Bede's College, and Classics (Greek and Latin) and Mathematics were very strong subjects of mine and I enjoyed every other subject that I studied, unlike some posters. In those far-off days the General Certificate of Education at both "O" and "A" levels then were not the grades as given today, but those of Distinction, Credit and Pass. I obtained 12 passes at "O" level with Distinctions in Mathematics, Greek, Latin, Music, English Language, English Literature and in History. I then studied and obtained 5 passes at the Advanced level, all at the highest grade, in Mathematics, both the Classics subjects and the two differing English subjects.

I studied at Manchester University as it had a very good reputation in Mathematics and obtained my First in Mathematics there.

Why I am giving these subjects as examples, when it came to seeking employment in 1966, on leaving University, I noted that having studied Mathematics, Classics and the two core English subjects was seen as to have been a good example of studying a wide ranging subject base that was said at one interview to have "mind stretching" qualities by one elderly ex-academic who was a director of his company.

I have worked in a number of totally differing industries in my working life up to my retirement in 2010 and at a senior level since my mid-30's. All I will say that you will find some employers will look at the ability to study subjects with strengths in Mathematics and English coupled with other wide ranging traditionally accepted academic subjects of a wide range to evaluate your ability to be stretched by the combination of these and to have the strength of mind to have fully applied yourself to the ensuranance of total application to all of the subjects, as this will be seen as a reflection on your ability to cope with the stresses of life in industry that will undoubtedly occur in your employment.

Sorry if I have lived up to my forum reputation for being elderly, pedantic and long-winded, but I trust that I have made the points that have been applicable to me as an example to our younger forum members of what was the case some fifty years ago but will still be seen by employers today as being needed to succeed in a chosen career and to cope with the stresses of employment life that are far more demanding these days than has been the case in previous times.

Different generations and different standards, Paul. You will be talking to deaf ears I'm afraid!

 

[ATW Alex 101]

I started year 10 last week, choosing my GSCE options as DT Resistant Materials, Art, Geography and French as well as the compulsories. However at the end of year 9, I took an English Functional skills half GSCE and a Maths Grade C foundation GSCE and I passed the English and achieved my grade C!

Can't wait for the challenges of the next two years of GSCE's!

 

[D365]

Can't wait for the challenges of the next two years of GSCE's!

Oh, you'll definitely be taking that back in a couple months.. Though that is the same as I took, apart from Computing instead of Art, because I can't draw...

Surprised with my C in RM I was, had one of the top marks in my class for the practical even with somewhat of a flawed product... Conveniently I forgot several terms when it came round to exam time. But what I heard from teachers is that DT grades have been at their lowest for several years, a combination of work being marked down and tougher boundaries. Ridiculous it is that are grades seem to be decided based on when we took our courses, rather than our ability as it should be... [/RantOver]

(Btw, Further Maths is MENTAL. Even with my A* at GCSE and the subsequent E in FSMQ... But I'm not giving up!)

 

[Morden Via CHX]

(Btw, Further Maths is MENTAL. Even with my A* at GCSE and the subsequent E in FSMQ... But I'm not giving up!)

It will get easier - seems impossible at first but promise it will get easier. Stick with it if you can, I'm glad I did otherwise I doubt I'd be sitting here now a job that I love.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

(Btw, Further Maths is MENTAL. Even with my A* at GCSE and the subsequent E in FSMQ... But I'm not giving up!)

Can I, as one who obtained a First in Mathematics in 1966, ask you not to weaken in your resolve, but to persevere.

 

[underbank]

Ridiculous it is that are grades seem to be decided based on when we took our courses, rather than our ability as it should be... [/RantOver]

It's always been that way.

When I did my O and A levels in the early 80s, a B or C grade in either was regarded as good. VERY few people in our class got As and only a couple got any A* grades, let alone a full house of them. Now it seems a C grade at GCSE doesn't really mean anything anymore and certainly not considered good. So where does that leave all us 40 something year olds who now have somewhat "poor" looking O and A level results compared with today's school leavers. When I did my English A level a few years after leaving school, the A grade pass mark was 90% - I got 89% so only got a B which really annoyed me. But I was even more annoyed a decade ago when I went back to college for an evening class to find that the English A level A grade threshold was now only 77%!

Luckily, most employers keep up to date with grade trends so can compensate for the swings over the decades.

It's a bummer for my son who at 11 has just started secondary school and will take his GCSE (or whatever the new scheme is called) and A levels under the new regime which will be in force by the time he takes them. The school has already warned the parents and pupils that the days of lots of A/A* grades are over and that the A/A* will be only for the small number of top pupils, with most pupils getting Bs and Cs again. Not really fair for those as there'll still be the legacy of the last 20 years of higher grades.

 

[theblackwatch]

When I did my O and A levels in the early 80s, a B or C grade in either was regarded as good. VERY few people in our class got As and only a couple got any A* grades, let alone a full house of them.

I did the last year of 'O' levels (1987), and I can't even remember A* grades even existing...

 

[bb21]

It's a bummer for my son who at 11 has just started secondary school and will take his GCSE (or whatever the new scheme is called) and A levels under the new regime which will be in force by the time he takes them. The school has already warned the parents and pupils that the days of lots of A/A* grades are over and that the A/A* will be only for the small number of top pupils, with most pupils getting Bs and Cs again. Not really fair for those as there'll still be the legacy of the last 20 years of higher grades.

Spare a thought for those that took their exams this year - massive changes in the structure/contents of exams and not a single word of warning. Many tearful faces I observed on results day, especially those who took the ASs and A2s but less so with GCSEs. Poor souls.

Makes some of the results forum members obtained even more impressive.

The sooner Gove is rid of the better. That is not how you change the bloody exam system. Moron!

 

[D365]

Spare a thought for those that took their exams this year - massive changes in the structure/contents of exams and not a single word of warning. Many tearful faces I observed on results day, especially those who took the ASs and A2s but less so with GCSEs. Poor souls.

Makes some of the results forum members obtained even more impressive.

The sooner Gove is rid of the better. That is not how you change the bloody exam system. Moron!

Exactly that..! Though it's not going to get much easier in the future, for sure. So glad I've made it to Sixth Form and all.

 

[Class172]

Spare a thought for those that took their exams this year - massive changes in the structure/contents of exams and not a single word of warning. Many tearful faces I observed on results day, especially those who took the ASs and A2s but less so with GCSEs. Poor souls.

Makes some of the results forum members obtained even more impressive.

The sooner Gove is rid of the better. That is not how you change the bloody exam system. Moron!

I agree, I do not agree with his plans at all - he seems to be fiddling with things just for the sake of it. I'm glad that I will be through the system by the time I leave school in 2015, so none of the changes will affect me.

 

[D365]

I agree, I do not agree with his plans at all - he seems to be fiddling with things just for the sake of it. I'm glad that I will be through the system by the time I leave school in 2015, so none of the changes will affect me.

Same here mate! Gotta feel sorry for my younger siblings though...

 

[Nym]

Same here mate! Gotta feel sorry for my younger siblings though...

Have t'other half going through the A Level system at the moment, glad I got out of the compulsary education stack when I did...

 

[TOCDriver]

Spare a thought for those that took their exams this year - massive changes in the structure/contents of exams and not a single word of warning. Many tearful faces I observed on results day, especially those who took the ASs and A2s but less so with GCSEs. Poor souls.

Makes some of the results forum members obtained even more impressive.

The sooner Gove is rid of the better. That is not how you change the bloody exam system. Moron!

I agree. If you're going to change the exam system, you give it a totally different name to differentiate it absolutely from the GCSE.

 

[bb21]

I agree. If you're going to change the exam system, you give it a totally different name to differentiate it absolutely from the GCSE.

That, and the fact that he changed the whole system overnight (especially AS/A2), oblivious to the fact that there are kids who have spent the last few years being taught material that are no longer relevant to the questions in the exam papers, and additional material which were never taught. There is no transitional arrangement. There is no time for anyone taking exams this year to adjust to the new system.

Our schools do not really teach students how to think in many subjects, Mathematics being one, so anyone who carts out the argument that they should know their stuff no matter what gets asked is talking out of their backside.

I have a friend whose daughter went to an independent school, had A, B, B, C in her January exams, and was predicted three A's + C in her AS, ended up with B, C, D, E - she got U in the June exam in that last subject. You can't make this stuff up. Her friends were all in floods of tears on results day, and so were at least half of the kids at the college next to my office. She has now decided to retake her AS as she no longer gets the chance to resit in January since they will be withdrawn next year, otherwise she gets lumbered with six exams in June including her resits, with no guarantee of being able to pull the grades up to the AAB required for her Geology course at university. The university even agreed to lower the offer to BBB in light of the palavar this year, and even that is too much to ask when her confidence has been completely shattered.

Gove is buckling under pressure, and has been rushing through policies that are poorly considered and ill thought out. He must have single-handedly ruined at least a year of many kids' life. Must have been the worst Education Secretary I have seen since I first started teaching ten years ago.

 

[All Line Rover]

I am surprised. Whilst many students at my college were distressed after the June Edexcel mathematics exams (because they were unusually challenging), most were pleased on results day because the grade boundaries were so low. For one module the grade boundary was the lowest in over a decade! Those who were (sensibly) aiming for 2/3/4 A*'s got them. Perhaps there was a significant variance amongst the exam boards in the difficulty of the June 2013 exams.

My main annoyance is not the attempt at making exams more difficult, or of reducing the proportion of those who achieve A's and A*'s, or of limiting the number of resits students are permitted to take, but the way in which Gove is making students sit present A Level modules once a year instead of twice a year. They are designed to be taken twice a year! It is unreasonable to expect A Level students to sit 10+ challenging exams in the space of a fortnight.

Whether Gove's more dramatic changes will actually be implemented remains to be seen. I personally have my doubts.

 

[gnolife]

I am surprised. Whilst many students at my college were distressed after the June Edexcel mathematics exams (because they were unusually challenging), most were pleased on results day because the grade boundaries were so low. For one module the grade boundary was the lowest in over a decade! Those who were (sensibly) aiming for 2/3/4 A*'s got them. Perhaps there was a significant variance amongst the exam boards in the difficulty of the June 2013 exams.

My main annoyance is not the attempt at making exams more difficult, or of reducing the proportion of those who achieve A's and A*'s, or of limiting the number of resits students are permitted to take, but the way in which Gove is making students sit present A Level modules once a year instead of twice a year. They are designed to be taken twice a year! It is unreasonable to expect A Level students to sit 10+ challenging exams in the space of a fortnight.

Whether Gove's more dramatic changes will actually be implemented remains to be seen. I personally have my doubts.

I can only thank any god that is out there that I did my A levels while it was 2 sets of exams a year then - I had 9 exams in June of my second year anyway, adding in the other 8 that I sat in January would have been impossible (but then, I did get lumbered with 6 A levels (Maths, Further Maths, Further Maths (Additional), Physics, Chemistry and Electronics, after I got FMA tacked on to my timetable because the teacher felt that I could cope with it)

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Our schools do not really teach students how to think in many subjects, Mathematics being one, so anyone who carts out the argument that they should know their stuff no matter what gets asked is talking out of their backside.

Speaking as one who enjoyed Mathematics from 1956 onwards in Secondary Education through to obtaining a First in it in 1966, noting what my children said about their own education, I think that gifted teachers with a flair for expressing their subject can be a real boon to any pupils taught by that teacher.

Until I saw your posting, I was unaware that you are a member of the teaching profession, but I do know that you are not alone in that chosen career amongst for forum membership.

An interesting matter to ponder upon....do teachers make ideal moderators on website forums, having been taught how to handle unruly elements...

 

[D365]

Speaking as one who enjoyed Mathematics from 1956 onwards in Secondary Education through to obtaining a First in it in 1966, noting what my children said about their own education, I think that gifted teachers with a flair for expressing their subject can be a real boon to any pupils taught by that teacher.

I had one of those gifted teachers for 3 years. Absolutely incredible. Without him I probably would have found it much harder to pull my A* at GCSE, and I can imagine the same for some of my classmates as well. We have some well-liked teachers in our Maths department, but he, he was the best... The irony of it being, not long after we had decided on our post-16, a number of the class going for Further Maths (which he teaches), he was 'poached' by a 'rival' school in need and left to work there.

Until I saw your posting, I was unaware that you are a member of the teaching profession, but I do know that you are not alone in that chosen career amongst for forum membership.

An interesting matter to ponder upon....do teachers make ideal moderators on website forums, having been taught how to handle unruly elements...

Interesting, definitely!

 

[lemonic]

I cannot stand Michael Gove or his policies and am glad that others agree with me.

However, when I did my AS levels three years ago, there were still many people who did worse than expected, perhaps because they unintentionally underestimated the step up from GCSE or for other reasons. These people then generally got themselves back on track and did well in their overall A levels and many are now at good universities studying good degrees. This is one big reason why I am totally against getting rid of AS levels.

 

[TheKnightWho]

I cannot stand Michael Gove or his policies and am glad that others agree with me.

However, when I did my AS levels three years ago, there were still many people who did worse than expected, perhaps because they unintentionally underestimated the step up from GCSE or for other reasons. These people then generally got themselves back on track and did well in their overall A levels and many are now at good universities studying good degrees. This is one big reason why I am totally against getting rid of AS levels.

This. People who achieve very high grades at GCSE (think 10 A*s or similar) who go on to get mediocre or terrible AS and A-Level grades are nothing new this year. I saw many of them when I did my own A-Levels, finishing a couple of years ago.

I have to say that Gove's reforms will probably be beneficial in the long-run (although I remain highly sceptical about the abolition of January and AS exams), but they need to be paired with reforms to the curriculum as well. If the complaint is that the exams require teaching but the students don't know how, the solution is to get them thinking, not to make the exams cater to rote learning. Even A-Level isn't really good enough at preparing students for university, so it's no wonder interviews and additional exams are being introduced at more places.

Another issue is that with the previous Labour administration's dream of 50% of young people making it to university, we have to accept that this has not been achieved by the education system being dramatically better than it was 20 or 30 years ago, but through short-term fixes that are able to mask the fact that many are receiving a sub-standard education to what they deserve both at school and in higher education. This also needs serious reform.