London Midland - new flows introduced

[johnnycache]

London Midland have introduced super off-peak fares between Birmingham and Liverpool (not sure how many other flows)

Here is the full range of walk-up fares from brfares.com

birmingham stations to
liverpool stations
route CREWE
fares set by LM

super off-peak single £24.90
super off-peak return £25.00

off-peak single £27.20
off-peak return £35.40

anytime single £34.10
anytime return £53.40

 

[Starmill]

London Midland have introduced super off-peak fares between Birmingham and Liverpool (not sure how many other flows)

Here is the full range of walk-up fares from brfares.com

birmingham stations to
liverpool stations
route CREWE
fares set by LM

super off-peak single £24.90
super off-peak return £25.00

Mustn't arrive before 1300 and restrictions in force on Saturdays - literally what's the point?

 

[Deerfold]

Mustn't arrive before 1300 and restrictions in force on Saturdays - literally what's the point?

Presumably the point is to push people onto (less busy?) afternoon trains to save a tenner return.

 

[greatkingrat]

Can anyone spot the rather large loophole that London Midland have inadvertently left in their restriction code?

 

[All Line Rover]

Can anyone spot the rather large loophole that London Midland have inadvertently left in their restriction code?

I don't think London Midland could care less about other operators.

 

[LexyBoy]

Nice little saving until it gets corrected though!

 

[telstarbox]

Just because LM set the fare doesn't make it operator-specific though?

 

[Deerfold]

Just because LM set the fare doesn't make it operator-specific though?

No, but there are restrictions which only apply to LM services on that ticket - and so presumably don't to any other operator you may use the ticket on.

MONDAYS to SATURDAYS

OUTWARD TRAVEL

Not valid for travel on London
Midland services timed to
ARRIVE Liverpool Lime St or
Birmingham New St before_13:00

Not valid for travel on London
Midland services timed to
DEPART Liverpool Lime St or
Birmingham New St btween 16:30
and 19:30.

Break of journey is not
permitted except to change
trains at an intermediate
station or to access station
facilities.

 

[AndyLandy]

No, I couldn't see any restriction saying "Only valid on LM services"

So, the interpretation is that the ticket isn't valid on LM peak services, but it might be on someone else's.

 

[LexyBoy]

Just because LM set the fare doesn't make it operator-specific though?

Exactly - LM would not be permitted to introduce a permanent LM Only fare on this flow since they are the lead operator. They have used Via Crewe instead but not paid attention to their copy-paste job on the time restrictions.

Why they put "London Midland services" in any of them in the first place I don't know...

So, the interpretation is that the ticket isn't valid on LM peak services, but it might be on someone else's.

That is the only reasonable interpretation IMO. The ticket cannot be operator-restricted as such a restriction would have to be printed on the ticket. The restriction text can either exclude certain services, or allow certain services. In this case it excludes LM services timed to arrive before 1300.

I believe the ticket would therefore be valid on, for example, the 0622 XC to Stafford, changing onto the 0703 VT to Liverpool.

 

[tony_mac]

I'm sure it won't last long now it's been pointed out, but they made exactly the same mistake when they introduced super off peak fares to other flows like Liverpool to Lichfield or Tamworth, and the booking sites reflected the actual wording.
They did 'fix' them, but it took a while.

 

[Starmill]

Why they put "London Midland services" in any of them in the first place I don't know...

I've always thought it odd that they put 'Not valid at any time on Virgin Trains services' in the restriction code, even though 'LDN MIDLAND ONLY' is printed on the ticket. It's not valid at any time on Southern services either, but they don't put that in the restriction code!

Clearly a bad copy+paste job from an LM ONLY ticket.

 

[soil]

Just to be clear, the super-off-peak fares are new, the others were there before, with the same 'Via Crewe' restriction.

 

[Deerfold]

Just to be clear, the super-off-peak fares are new, the others were there before, with the same 'Via Crewe' restriction.

That'll be why almost all the discussion in this thread is about the new fare and the restrictions associated with it.

 

[soil]

That'll be why almost all the discussion in this thread is about the new fare and the restrictions associated with it.

The title however refers to a new flow.

 

[Deerfold]

The title however refers to a new flow.

So it does. I think everyone ignored that

 

[IanD]

The title however refers to a new flow.

Probably an oversight when it was disaggregated from the Special Offers discussion.

 

[the sniper]

I thought this thread was going to be about the new Derby/Sheffield etc to EUS via LM & XC only, or has that already been mentioned elsewhere?

 

[lyndhurst25]

Are ALL Liverpool to Birmingham tickets routed "Via Crewe" now then? What happened to "Any Permitted" tickets, allowing travel via Chester, Wrexham and Shrewsbury using map ME?

 

[soil]

Are ALL Liverpool to Birmingham tickets routed "Via Crewe" now then? What happened to "Any Permitted" tickets, allowing travel via Chester, Wrexham and Shrewsbury using map ME?

It's not a new flow.

The tickets were routed 'Via Crewe' before also. (Excluding Virgin and XC Advances)

 

[lyndhurst25]

It's not a new flow.

The tickets were routed 'Via Crewe' before also. (Excluding Virgin and XC Advances)

For how long before?

trainscanbecheaper.info's data is showing "Any Permitted" as the only Routing for Liverpool to Birmingham so I'm am I right in thinking that the change to "Via Crewe" for all walk-up fares is a fairly recent change? Another stealth change to the Routing Guide?

 

[soil]

For how long before?

trainscanbecheaper.info's data is showing "Any Permitted" as the only Routing for Liverpool to Birmingham so I'm am I right in thinking that the change to "Via Crewe" for all walk-up fares is a fairly recent change? Another stealth change to the Routing Guide?

It's not a change to the routeing guide, it was a change to the route on the ticket.

It was routed 'Via Crewe' in the last fares update too, maybe it went in the one before that, not sure.

 

[greatkingrat]

It has been "Via Crewe" at least as far back as NFM01 in Sep 2008.

 

[tractakid]

Is the only thing this forbids travelling via Shrewsbury? Why was travelling this route a problem?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You could route via Chester and still satisfy the via Crewe restriction.
Or even Chester, Crewe and Shrewsbury (several through trains).
Not sure if "Any Permitted" includes those.

 

[bb21]

I'm sure it won't last long now it's been pointed out,

Absolutely, especially now that it has been discussed in great length on here.

 

[Eagle]

Not a great loss though; someone was bound to spot such a glaring mistake pretty soon.

 

[Greeby]

Exactly - LM would not be permitted to introduce a permanent LM Only fare on this flow since they are the lead operator. They have used Via Crewe instead but not paid attention to their copy-paste job on the time restrictions.

Why they put "London Midland services" in any of them in the first place I don't know...



That is the only reasonable interpretation IMO. The ticket cannot be operator-restricted as such a restriction would have to be printed on the ticket. The restriction text can either exclude certain services, or allow certain services. In this case it excludes LM services timed to arrive before 1300.

I believe the ticket would therefore be valid on, for example, the 0622 XC to Stafford, changing onto the 0703 VT to Liverpool.

With Milton Keynes - Euston/Travelcard, we've had an LM Only - and before that Silverlink Only - since at least 2001 while both respective companies have been the lead operator. So it's not unknown.