Level crossings on the southern ECML

[MK Tom]

Whenever I use it, I'm taken aback by the number of level crossings between Hitchin and Huntingdon. This is a four track 125mph main line... And some of these crossings seem to be fairly trafficed roads. Why are they still here? Is it planned to remove them? Also, how long are the barriers ever up for? There often seem to be substantial queues at some of them.

 

[balne-wonderer]

Its one area of the ECML I'm not that familiar with. There is certainly some beastly crossings just north of Peterborough with Maxey and Helpston both having fairly busy roads that cross 6 lines (4 ECML, 2 Stamford)

Not sure about much further south though. I'd like some more information too.

 

[A-driver]

Whenever I use it, I'm taken aback by the number of level crossings between Hitchin and Huntingdon. This is a four track 125mph main line... And some of these crossings seem to be fairly trafficed roads. Why are they still here? Is it planned to remove them? Also, how long are the barriers ever up for? There often seem to be substantial queues at some of them.

I wouldn't say any of them are busy roads really, the only one I have ever seen traffic quing up to cross is offord and I wouldn't say that that gets too bad, Foxton is worse on the A10.

It's very rare to see any cars waiting to cross at tempsford, conington or Holme lode and Holme and Everton certainly arnt what I would describe as busy. I wouldn't imagine they would go out of their way to bridge any of them as they are such quiet roads (as I say, with the exception of offord) but even offord would be difficult as the east side if the crossing is right in the middle of the village a bridge wouldn't be able to replace the crossing at its existing location without cutting off access to numerous houses.

The furthest level crossing south is Everton which is north of sandy, they recently closed co-op foot crossing and replaced it with a bridge (between 3 counties and arlesey) and the crossings either side of Biggleswade are only red/green foot crossings and open bridleways with the exception of east road which is only open to farm access traffic (the road dosnt go anywhere)

 

[MK Tom]

The really busy one I saw yesterday was between Sandy and St Neots. It strikes me that the linespeed alone should mean they get rid of them. All it takes is for a tractor to break down and you're waiting on the driver to call the control centre and them to stop a speeding hst with God knows what stopping distance.

Also is there anywhere else where a road crosses a four track line? Not counting next to stations like Grimsby or the one in Devon.

 

[Tomnick]

The really busy one I saw yesterday was between Sandy and St Neots. It strikes me that the linespeed alone should mean they get rid of them. All it takes is for a tractor to break down and you're waiting on the driver to call the control centre and them to stop a speeding hst with God knows what dropping distance.

Nonsense - they're all CCTV crossings, so any obstruction should be identified before the signals are cleared for the train in the first place.

 

[A-driver]

As said above, all the level crossing which take traffic (except east road which is only for farm traffic) are CCTV so if anything breaks down on them the signaller won't clear the signals protecting the crossings. Unlike auto crossings the signaller manually checks the barriers are down and the line is clear before allowing trains into the section.

The busy one between sandy and st Neots will be Everton (the furthest south with the old crossing keepers box by it). I wouldn't say it's mega busy-it can get fairly busy at times but I don't believe it causes much traffic chaos. I have never noticed it to be particularly busy when driving past, as I say Offord (south of Huntingdon) tends to be the buisiest one around there.

 

[MK Tom]

Nonsense - they're all CCTV crossings, so any obstruction should be identified before the signals are cleared for the train in the first place.

If I get something wrong you say something like ''actually they're CCTV crossings'' or just state the fact. Starting the sentence with 'nonsense' is very rude. Anyway I should've thought of that, not sure why I didn't.

As said above, all the level crossing which take traffic (except east road which is only for farm traffic) are CCTV so if anything breaks down on them the signaller won't clear the signals protecting the crossings. Unlike auto crossings the signaller manually checks the barriers are down and the line is clear before allowing trains into the section.

The busy one between sandy and st Neots will be Everton (the furthest south with the old crossing keepers box by it). I wouldn't say it's mega busy-it can get fairly busy at times but I don't believe it causes much traffic chaos. I have never noticed it to be particularly busy when driving past, as I say Offord (south of Huntingdon) tends to be the buisiest one around there.

Well I thought that, but if you're allowing for stopping distances for 125mph services then like I said at the start, how long are the barriers ever up for?

 

[balne-wonderer]

The really busy one I saw yesterday was between Sandy and St Neots. It strikes me that the linespeed alone should mean they get rid of them. All it takes is for a tractor to break down and you're waiting on the driver to call the control centre and them to stop a speeding hst with God knows what stopping distance.

Also is there anywhere else where a road crosses a four track line? Not counting next to stations like Grimsby or the one in Devon.

Thers is loads on the ECML

Also Sudforth Lane in North Yorkshire and Hillam near Selby.

 

[Tomnick]

If I get something wrong you say something like ''actually they're CCTV crossings'' or just state the fact. Starting the sentence with 'nonsense' is very rude. Anyway I should've thought of that, not sure why I didn't.

Sorry, a little harsh on my part. As a general point (certainly not limited to yourself), it's worth establishing the method of working before implying that it's dangerous .

It's a longer braking distance for a 125mph train, but it'll cover that distance more quickly. They're probably still down for most of each hour though - just like Helpston!

 

[A-driver]

They will spend a fair bit of time down but none are busy roads and all have alternate faster roads which bridge the line. As I say, there are sometimes ques of traffic waiting to cross but never particularly long. They are all just local roads so I would imagine the natives are used to it and plan their journeys accordingly.

There is a heap of infrastructure work to be financed and carried out and somewhat doubt replacing quiet level crossings with expensive bridges is very far up the list of priorities. It tends to be busier road crossings which are being closed and bridged.

 

[MK Tom]

Yeah, true enough. I noticed though that there were long sections of the ECML without any grade separated crossings at all. The pedestrian crossings worry me more, as someone could easily walk out when a train is only a mile off or so, get stuck somehow in the middle of four tracks and the train would be on them in under 30 seconds.

Unlikely I admit, and yeah there are bigger priorities money wise. But it's bizarre they've survived this long on a four track 125mph line. Nothing like this on the WCML, MML or GWML four track sections.

 

[Llanigraham]

As has been said earlier, I think you will find that all/most of the foot crossings are "red/green light" operations, so if used correctly no-one should be in that situation.

And I think you will find there are plenty of crossings on the other lines as well.

 

[A-driver]

As above-with the exception of a few very rarely used bridleway crossings between Biggleswade and arlsey (on a very long straight section of track) pretty much all the open foot crossings are protected by red/green lights activated by track circuits along with a styal (spelling?...) or gate and clear instructions. Plus almost all the crossings, even those on the straight between arlsey and Biggleswade, have whistle boards on approach. Infanct, the half dozen or so crossings between the Langford bridges and A1flyover at Biggleswade south which is straight enough to see one end to another has about 4 (will count next time I go past there) whistle boards along it so you would be hard pushed not to notice an approaching train before stepping out if you use a bit of common sense and follow the instructions provided.

Provided they are used properly they are perfectly safe. Infact I don't know of any actual accidents on these crossings, the only fatalities on them have been suicides mainly at co-op and lindsells to my knowledge. I may be wrong there but they are all in such remote locations that they are only used by occasional dog walkers and hikers. The main culprits for misuse tend to be photographers especially at Jiggs lane where they often stand in front taking a photo at a distance or hover around the side of the line to get close ups.

Provided you take note of the red/green indicators and listen for train whistles before stepping out you should be fine.

 

[balne-wonderer]

As has been said earlier, I think you will find that all/most of the foot crossings are "red/green light" operations, so if used correctly no-one should be in that situation.

And I think you will find there are plenty of crossings on the other lines as well.

there is a couple of foot crossings near York, one at Tollerton that is just a couple of stiles. no lights, no footboards or anything. scary. crosses 4 lines.

 

[A-driver]

At a guess they are protected by whistle oars and have adequate sighting though? But I agree, I have used a 4 track foot crossing on the ECML once whilst out walking and even with the red green lights etc it was a little nerve racking-and that's with PTS aswell.

 

[Dieseldriver]

Also is there anywhere else where a road crosses a four track line? Not counting next to stations like Grimsby or the one in Devon.

Mount Pleasant in Southampton.

 

[JohnCarlson]

At a guess they are protected by whistle oars and have adequate sighting though? But I agree, I have used a 4 track foot crossing on the ECML once whilst out walking and even with the red green lights etc it was a little nerve racking-and that's with PTS aswell.

I have wondered about the issues around level crossings as well.

With about five East Coasts an hour each way, Hull Trains and Grand Central and presumably other stuff as well those barriers must be up and down all the time.

John

 

[edwin_m]

Three members of the same family were killed at an unprotected crossing of five tracks at Carr Lane near Doncaster in 1990 (now replaced by a very large footbridge) and trains hitting people on foot crossings are probably the most common category of accident that RAIB investigates.

http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/eventsummary.php?eventID=420

By contrast CCTV crossings have an excellent safety record, the accident at Moreton-on-Lugg being a rare exception but mainly due to the unusual lack of a protection feature in the signalling (approach locking).

 

[Dieseldriver]

Unfortunately on a daily basis I see first hand how people use level crossings, it's a small miracle that more aren't killed if I'm brutally honest!

 

[High Dyke]

Well I thought that, but if you're allowing for stopping distances for 125mph services then like I said at the start, how long are the barriers ever up for?

Difficult to say on a four track section, more trains etc... On the two-track sections North of Grantham however, depending on trains, some crossings may only be down for about 3 - 4 minutes, obviously more trains on the panel mean barriers down for longer. That is a enough time for a train travelling at 100 + mph to have covered approximately 6 miles (or about 6 or 7 signal sections) safely and receive proceed aspects.

Quite often friends of mine will complain about being "stuck for ages at crossings waiting for trains to pass." I usually suggest that next time they should time how long they've waited...in many cases they are surprised they haven't waited as long as they thought.

 

[A-driver]

In terms of how long the gates are down for I don't think it's as long as the OP may be suggesting. For example, taking Everton which is the one the OP said seemed busy, on the down fast line for a train to get greens all the way, the gates wouldn't need to be down until the train was passing through sandy (the double yellow indicating the crossing is still open to traffic is just north of sandy, slightly round the bend by one of the bridges). For a train on the down slow (which only has 3 aspect signalling) the gates wouldn't need to be down until the train had passed sandy north junction which is by the industrial estate a fair way north of the station.

Obviously I accept that there are 4 tracks to have clear for the gates to be open to traffic but with line speeds at Everton of 80 on the down slow, 125 on the fasts (and the slowest any scheduled train runs on the fast is 100 for the FCC fast peterbourghs) and 75 on the up slow it really dosnt take long for a train to get from the furthest restrictive signal to clearing the crossing itself. I would say that possibly it even keeps the traffic on roads moving more than some crossings by stations such as foxton which sees huge ques build up when stoppers go by as on the up road the signal needs to clear before the train reaches the platform and then take into account time for the train to stop, close doors again and start moving or on the down road it takes a while to get from the protecting signal into the platform. At least if the gates on the ECML crossings are constantly up and down it is letting a certain amount of traffic pass between trains.

 

[Aictos]

Network Rail are currently replacing the Tallington level crossing with a bridge that's 100m to the north of the existing level crossing with link roads back to the A16/A1175 which should be completed between December 2013 and March 2014.

http://www.stamfordmercury.co.uk/ne...o-replace-tallington-level-crossing-1-3992351

 

[MK Tom]

Just checked on Google Earth and it was Everton I was thinking of.

That article about Tallington says the barriers can be down 40 minutes out of the hour. I'd have thought there were more trains per hour between Sandy and St Neots than there are between Peterborough and Grantham...

 

[A-driver]

Just checked on Google Earth and it was Everton I was thinking of.

That article about Tallington says the barriers can be down 40 minutes out of the hour. I'd have thought there were more trains per hour between Sandy and St Neots than there are between Peterborough and Grantham...

well any train that runs through sandy will also run through to grantham with the exception of the 4 FCC's per hour which are replaced by 4 XC & EMT trains plus freight running off the march line so its probably roughly the same amount.