China

[Johnuk123]

http://news.sky.com/story/1133988/china-boys-eyes-gouged-out-by-woman

A six-year-old boy is recovering in hospital after his eyes were gouged out in an horrific attack in China.

Hearing the above story yesterday it simply underlined to me what a truly barbaric, uncaring, selfish and thoroughly despicable country China is.

On a daily basis they are stealing secrets and information by hacking into worldwide businesses. The Chinese people themselves aren't even allowed proper access to the internet for fear they might discover things they shouldn't.

They are the biggest dumpers of illegal fake rubbish goods worldwide by a mile including medical supplies that can end up here. They sell baby milk containing melamine to unsuspecting citizens.

Slavery is not only allowed it's positively encouraged.

They are the worlds biggest polluters especially into the air.

They only care about money and never help people in a crisis (for instance 2 year old girl who was hit by a car in the middle of the road while people walked past and totally ignored her).

They are decimating large parts of the world especially Africa with vast de-forestation and mining with absolutely no regard to the consequences.

Not content with organ stealing and baby trafficking and murdering they are also decimating the worlds rare animals.

Not content with killing millions of sharks and turtles they are soon to deplete the world of rhinos, tigers, gorillas and elephants and others.

If ever anybody goes to a Chinese restaurant possibly for a nice bit of dog, cat, dolphin or monkey brains beware that over million establishments are cooking in recycled sewer oil.

I thought I'd put something good about the place at the end to redress the balance somewhat - impossible nothing exists.

I challenge anybody to put forward a modern-day place that is worse.

 

[LexyBoy]

Glad that's sorted then.

You must be glad to live in a country where people never do horrible things to each other, and which hasn't enslaved, oppressed or slaughtered the inhabitants of half the world in the recent past. Oh, wait...

 

[Geezertronic]

It happens anywhere, even the UK. People being attacked with acid is one that seems to be becoming more common as it is seen as a control thing. The neglect, torture and subsequent death of Daniel Pelka is still fresh in the memory, as are the actions of nursery rapist Paul Wilson. We'd be here forever listing things....

 

[Johnuk123]

Glad that's sorted then.

You must be glad to live in a country where people never do horrible things to each other, and which hasn't enslaved, oppressed or slaughtered the inhabitants of half the world in the recent past. Oh, wait...

Which country has slaughtered the inhabitants of half the world recently ? - I must have missed that one.

 

[gazthomas]

Buy local... Ah too expensive!

 

[LexyBoy]

The Atlantic slave trade, largely led by England, led to 12 million Africans being sold to labour in the New World, many dying in the process. English settlers in America and Australia attempted to eradicate the indigenous population. The British Empire exploited its land and people, directly leading to 15 million deaths in India by exporting crops in famines. Yes, it wasn't yesterday, but that's no reason to disregard what happened.

Of course China has problems - it is changing rapidly and is struggling to get to grips with western-style capitalism. It is also absolutely massive so there are bound to be more incidents than in smaller countries.

The stories you quote caused as much uproar in China as here. The case of melamine tainted milk led to several long jail terms and the execution of the person directly responsible. Couldn't happen here? Gary Bolton has just been jailed for selling fake bomb detectors - exactly the same motive and (probable) outcome.

Organ theft and baby trafficking are problems in many poor countries, I'm not sure China is any worse on this count.

They are the world's biggest polluter as a country - but China is the biggest country. And all your stuff is made there, which takes energy. Most western countries emit more CO2 per capita. It may not be reported here, but the Chinese government is reducing limits for pollution much faster than those in the west would dare, and simply shutting down plants which fail to meet the regulation.

The killing of endangered animals is of course illegal in China too - the state could do more to stop it, but if there's demand there there will be people willing to supply (drugs and prostitution being more familiar vices to us). Wheras in the UK the government is sanctioning the killing of badgers not for food but to - possibly - cause a slight reduction in the rates of TB, which could be eliminated by vaccination. Not sure what's wrong with eating dogs and cats anyway - they're not endangered the last I checked.

Chinese business in Africa is an interesting one. There's a lot of pretty destructive mining going on for sure, but I think that in reality US and especially Australian interests are kicking themselves for not getting there first, and I'm sure they would behave in the same way. At least China are investing in Africa, rather than just taking what they can get from the existing infrastructure. Of course this is also to ensure China retains a foothold once the iron/uranium/coal/whatever is gone.

There are plenty of places I would consider much worse; how about North Korea, Saudi Arabia and Sudan (most of Sub-Saharan Africa in fact, sadly).

 

[telstarbox]

Bad things happen in nearly every country in the world - China, the USA, here, North Korea, Syria and everywhere else.

Not disagreeing with the OP but it should be noted that China's ambitious policies have lifted a huge number of people out of poverty through economic growth, although this has clearly come at a cost environmentally and socially.

 

[bb21]

Generalisation much? :roll:

Hearing the above story yesterday it simply underlined to me what a truly barbaric, uncaring, selfish and thoroughly despicable country China is.

Have you been there? Do a few people's actions represent 1.3 billion people? By your logic, the existence of people like Dale Cregan means all those adjectives you just used can be used to describe the UK?

On a daily basis they are stealing secrets and information by hacking into worldwide businesses.

Which country is not?

The Chinese people themselves aren't even allowed proper access to the internet for fear they might discover things they shouldn't.

I will give you that, but that is the fault of the government rather than the nation, right?

They are the biggest dumpers of illegal fake rubbish goods worldwide

Supply and demand, my friend, which is a quite basic concept, don't you think?

by a mile including medical supplies that can end up here.

Speculation much?

They sell baby milk containing melamine to unsuspecting citizens.

These actions by selected business people are absolutely despicable, and you will find that the overwhelming majority of the Chinese population agrees with you on this one.

Slavery is not only allowed it's positively encouraged.

Only further encouraged by an appetite in the west for cheaper and cheaper goods. With all other costs going up, the only thing that can be exploited is labour costs.

Who are the biggest exploiters? Oh, silly me, the multinational conglomerates, which are mostly owned by whom?

They are the worlds biggest polluters especially into the air.

With the largest population in the world, of course. Can you imagine what it would be like if the Chinese population have the same number of cars per person as the UK or the US?

They only care about money and never help people in a crisis (for instance 2 year old girl who was hit by a car in the middle of the road while people walked past and totally ignored her).

Do you actually know why this has now become a prevalent opinion amongst the general public? I suspect that you don't, otherwise you wouldn't come out with such garbage.

They are decimating large parts of the world especially Africa with vast de-forestation and mining with absolutely no regard to the consequences.

Remind me how the UK got rich in the first place? Oh, hang on, exploitation. :roll:

No, it doesn't make exploitation alright, however again you cannot possibly generalise the behaviour of a few business types to the whole country's population. (If you actually understand the background of these business types then you wouldn't be doing this, so, ignorance of facts to say the least.) China is trying to grow its economy, and to do that requires natural resources. Isn't that part of the reason why the US and the UK were in Iraq?

Not content with organ stealing and baby trafficking and murdering

Remind me what happened at Alder Hey? Again, it is not alright and is absolutely disgusting, and you will find that almost all Chinese people agree with you.

they are also decimating the worlds rare animals.

Again, speculation much?

Not content with killing millions of sharks and turtles they are soon to deplete the world of rhinos, tigers, gorillas and elephants and others.

I seem to remember that Japan is the country that kills most sharks in the world. Looks like your anger is being misfired.

If ever anybody goes to a Chinese restaurant possibly for a nice bit of dog, cat, dolphin or monkey brains beware that over million establishments are cooking in recycled sewer oil.

Do you actually know where in China people eat monkey brains? (Let me remind you: the Cantonese region. So how about directing your criticism at that region, which includes the territory so many Britons regard as the shining example of humanity in the far east - Hong Kong, rather than pointing the finger at the whole Chinese population?)

I thought I'd put something good about the place at the end to redress the balance somewhat - impossible nothing exists.

Of course you will see nothing through those bigoted and ignorant eyes of yours.

I challenge anybody to put forward a modern-day place that is worse.

Are you on a wind-up?

I'm sorry but your bigoted views cannot be left unchallenged, as it would a massive injustice to the Chinese population, the overwhelming majority are the absolute opposite to what you have described. China have massive problems at the moment, and I do not claim that the country is a shining beacon of civilisation, but the progress made in the last thirty years is something the rest of the world can only watch in awe. Nevertheless none of the things you have moaned about touches on the most important challenges faced by the country.

Seems to me like you have allowed your judgement to be impaired by goodness knows what. If you have a dislike for the communist government, which I suspect is what you are really trying to say, don't direct it at the Chinese population.

 

[jon0844]

I've been to China. Nothing like I thought it would be.

For one, I could take pictures of the army and not get arrested or harassed at all. You can get hassle here for taking a picture that has a PCSO in it!!

 

[Johnuk123]

Generalisation much? :roll:



Have you been there? Do a few people's actions represent 1.3 billion people? By your logic, the existence of people like Dale Cregan means all those adjectives you just used can be used to describe the UK?



Which country is not?



I will give you that, but that is the fault of the government rather than the nation, right?



Supply and demand, my friend, which is a quite basic concept, don't you think?



Speculation much?



These actions by selected business people are absolutely despicable, and you will find that the overwhelming majority of the Chinese population agrees with you on this one.



Only further encouraged by an appetite in the west for cheaper and cheaper goods. With all other costs going up, the only thing that can be exploited is labour costs.

Who are the biggest exploiters? Oh, silly me, the multinational conglomerates, which are mostly owned by whom?



With the largest population in the world, of course. Can you imagine what it would be like if the Chinese population have the same number of cars per person as the UK or the US?



Do you actually know why this has now become a prevalent opinion amongst the general public? I suspect that you don't, otherwise you wouldn't come out with such garbage.



Remind me how the UK got rich in the first place? Oh, hang on, exploitation. :roll:

No, it doesn't make exploitation alright, however again you cannot possibly generalise the behaviour of a few business types to the whole country's population. (If you actually understand the background of these business types then you wouldn't be doing this, so, ignorance of facts to say the least.) China is trying to grow its economy, and to do that requires natural resources. Isn't that part of the reason why the US and the UK were in Iraq?



Remind me what happened at Alder Hey? Again, it is not alright and is absolutely disgusting, and you will find that almost all Chinese people agree with you.



Again, speculation much?



I seem to remember that Japan is the country that kills most sharks in the world. Looks like your anger is being misfired.



Do you actually know where in China people eat monkey brains? (Let me remind you: the Cantonese region. So how about directing your criticism at that region, which includes the territory so many Britons regard as the shining example of humanity in the far east - Hong Kong, rather than pointing the finger at the whole Chinese population?)



Of course you will see nothing through those bigoted and ignorant eyes of yours.



Are you on a wind-up?

I'm sorry but your bigoted views cannot be left unchallenged, as it would a massive injustice to the Chinese population, the overwhelming majority are the absolute opposite to what you have described. China have massive problems at the moment, and I do not claim that the country is a shining beacon of civilisation, but the progress made in the last thirty years is something the rest of the world can only watch in awe. Nevertheless none of the things you have moaned about touches on the most important challenges faced by the country.

Seems to me like you have allowed your judgement to be impaired by goodness knows what. If you have a dislike for the communist government, which I suspect is what you are really trying to say, don't direct it at the Chinese population.

I see you've actually agreed with the majority of what I said in one way or another, saying things are ok in China because they happen elsewhere too is a poor argument.

I have been there just the once in 1997, I doubt it's much different now.

To say that the rest of the world looks to China in awe is simply ridiculous and untrue.

I have a right to my opinion, the same as you have a right to yours.


Not one person on this thread has actually had any sympathy for the poor lad with his eyes gouged out.

 

[SS4]

Not one person on this thread has actually had any sympathy for the poor lad with his eyes gouged out.

Tragic as it is, it is folly to extrapolate the suffering of one to a nation of 1.3 billion. I don't know what you have against China? Given your political views in other threads I can only suspect it's because they're nominally on the left.

 

[Johnuk123]

Tragic as it is, it is folly to extrapolate the suffering of one to a nation of 1.3 billion. I don't know what you have against China? Given your political views in other threads I can only suspect it's because they're nominally on the left.

Nothing to do with it, couldn't care less if they're left or right.

 

[jon0844]

Nothing to do with it, couldn't care less if they're left or right.

Just looked on a map and they're far right...

 

[bb21]

I see you've actually agreed with the majority of what I said in one way or another, saying things are ok in China because they happen elsewhere is a poor argument.

Absolutely not. There is no justification for things such as exploitation and the likes. On the other hand, it is unfair to generalise the whole country's population with the behaviour of a select few.

I have been there just the once in 1997, I doubt it's much different now.

Well, you should visit the place to have a more up-to-date view is all I can say.

To say that the rest of the world looks to China in awe is simply ridiculous and untrue.

They might not want to admit it.

Not one person on this thread has actually had any sympathy for the poor lad with his eyes gouged out.

Absolutely. I have every sympathy for the boy and millions of other victims of an increasing number of violent crimes in recent years, and so do the majority of the population anywhere in the world I am sure. There shouldn't be the need for sympathy to be stated explicitly. It should be an assumption that it is the case. Only a troll or a heartless skunk would think otherwise. There are some truly despicable people out there, and they should be punished accordingly for their heinous crimes.

The problem is that there are massive changes happening in the Chinese society as more people get richer much faster than before (not everyone and the increasing wealth gap is alarming), and some people's values get distorted, hence some of the problems you have described. Nevertheless this is in no way representative of the nation as a whole and I deplore anyone who makes such accusations. If you want to see things such as compassion and the whole nation pulling together, just look at the responses after the earthquake in 2008, and the massive public outcry after the publication of this case, for example.

Just looked on a map and they're far right...

I think communism has only existed in textbooks since 1978.

 

[Johnuk123]

Just looked on a map and they're far right...

Actually you're quite right.

 

[Butts]

The Atlantic slave trade, largely led by England, led to 12 million Africans being sold to labour in the New World, many dying in the process. English settlers in America and Australia attempted to eradicate the indigenous population. The British Empire exploited its land and people, directly leading to 15 million deaths in India by exporting crops in famines. Yes, it wasn't yesterday, but that's no reason to disregard what happened.

Which river do you live "north of" - it's certainly not The Tweed or The Tay

It's nice of you to accept responsibility for the slave trade on behalf of the English along with other evil deeds committed in North America and Australia.

Unfortunately the Scots, Welsh and Irish were up to their necks in at as well, not to forget the indigenous African Chiefs who were quite happy to sell their people down the river - literally

Was this a slip of the key or do you consider England and the UK/British Empire to be one and the same ?

 

[rdeez]

I think to make such sweeping generalizations of a country of 1.344 billion people is simply wrong.

Firstly in a country covering such a vast land area and with such a huge population (more than twice the population of the entire European Union) it should be fairly obvious that there will be a number of evil, barbaric people - just as there are here, and in every country. I hardly need to point out that they don't all go around gouging children's eyes out on a daily basis.

Regarding pollution - again, given the size of the country and having the largest population it is not surprising that they top pollution tables. Not to defend any country - including our own - that continues to contribute to poisoning our atmosphere, but the Chinese government is taking steps to implement green energy policies. I should also point out that a fair percentage of that pollution will be from manufacturing - and from where does the demand for Chinese products come from? The West. Have a look around your house and count how many products are labelled "Made in China".

Stealing secrets - yes, indeed, I'm sure they do. As does the United States, the United Kingdom, and I'd bet my hat every country advanced enough to do so. Spying and industrial espionage is hardly a new phenomenon, it's just a hell of a lot easier in the internet age, and China is just one player in this information 'war'.

And as for the other charges you level against China's people - I know 5 lovely Chinese persons that would certainly have something to say about that. Indeed, I first heard of this story from my Chinese friend, who was of the opinion that the person responsible should suffer the same fate, and be locked in a room to starve. Had you bothered perhaps to do some research into Chinese culture you might realise that it is based on collective responsibility and harmony - for most Chinese, they will go out of their way to avoid interpersonal conflict.

 

[flymo]

Do you actually know where in China people eat monkey brains? (Let me remind you: the Cantonese region. So how about directing your criticism at that region, which includes the territory so many Britons regard as the shining example of humanity in the far east - Hong Kong, rather than pointing the finger at the whole Chinese population?)

I've lived in Hong Kong for 20 years and never seen this sort of thing going on. I must be going to the wrong restaurants.. The way of life here is very very different to over the border.

I have been there just the once in 1997, I doubt it's much different now.

I think you will find China an entirely new world. The pace of modernization is staggering.

 

[bb21]

I've lived in Hong Kong for 20 years and never seen this sort of thing going on. I must be going to the wrong restaurants.. The way of life here is very very different to over the border.

The thing is with stuff like monkey brains, unless you go looking for it, you will not always come across it. Not all restaurants always advertise these things in public as such practice are generally derided by the rest of the population outside the tiny region they are practiced and has always been. Where my parents come from, people find the idea of eating monkey brains, horses and cats abhorrent and disgusting. Even though it still exists, there are far less people doing it these days as attitudes change over time.

Hong Kong culture and Cantonese culture in nearby areas are one and the same, despite the fact that some HK people try and make out that they are somehow more superior than their mainland neighbours.

I totally agree that it is irresponsible to generalise the population of such a vast country by the behaviour of a few. What our OP might not realise is that unlike the UK, sometimes people from places less than a few villages away can have completely different ways of life and different languages and they might not even be able to necessarily understand each other in their local language. It is impossible to make one word fit all of them.

 

[flymo]

The thing is with stuff like monkey brains, unless you go looking for it, you will not always come across it. Not all restaurants always advertise these things in public as such practice are generally derided by the rest of the population outside the tiny region they are practiced and has always been. Where my parents come from, people find the idea of eating monkey brains, horses and cats abhorrent and disgusting. Even though it still exists, there are far less people doing it these days as attitudes change over time.

Hong Kong culture and Cantonese culture in nearby areas are one and the same, despite the fact that some HK people try and make out that they are somehow more superior than their mainland neighbours.

I totally agree that it is irresponsible to generalise the population of such a vast country by the behaviour of a few. What our OP might not realise is that unlike the UK, sometimes people from places less than a few villages away can have completely different ways of life and different languages and they might not even be able to necessarily understand each other in their local language. It is impossible to make one word fit all of them.

Sorry BB21 but I really want to disagree with some of that. The food and environmental hygiene rules and regulations in HK, even near the border, say Sheung Shui, Yuen Long etc are so unbelievably tough then these sort of things just don't happen, if they did then the 'Apple Daily' (local rag) et al would be well on the case. I cannot comment on what goes on over the border in Shenzhen but it really is a different world up there.

The only place I have ever been to where brains were on the menu was on the Central Coast north of Sydney in Oz, these were sheep's brains coated in cheese and deep fried. I passed on that and had the coat of arms (Emu, Croc and 'Roo,) Delicious.

 

[bb21]

Sorry BB21 but I really want to disagree with some of that. The food and environmental hygiene rules and regulations in HK, even near the border, say Sheung Shui, Yuen Long etc are so unbelievably tough then these sort of things just don't happen, if they did then the 'Apple Daily' (local rag) et al would be well on the case.

Regulations are in place, sure. I wouldn't be so sure that they are always enforced. There are a lot of goings-on underground that don't get reported or a blind eye turned to. It is not as perfect a place as many people seem to think.

The market for monkey brains has dwindled as less and less people eat them each year for various reasons, however there is still a small one out there, on both sides of the border.

Apple Daily are a bit like the Daily Fail, but with even less morals.