What do we want from the "New" Caledonian Sleeper

[Peter Mugridge]

My main gripe is the amount of light that leaks in under / around the door from the corridor and the window blind ( the latter is only really a summer problem though unless you are unfortunate enough to have your cabin stop next to a light on the platform at Crewe or wherever... )

 

[Whistler40145]

It amazes me that Birmingham, the 2nd largest city doesn't get a Sleeper service.

Would it be good business sense to call at Birmingham International?

Does Crewe warrant a call by the sleepers?

Why not make calls at Coventry, Birmingham International, Birmingham New Street, Stafford, Manchester Piccadilly & Preston?

 

[Polarbear]

Could something like this have a place on a revamped overnight service?

http://www.queenslandrailtravel.com.au/RailServices/Pages/SpiritofQueensland-RailBed.aspx

The Spirit of Queensland will launch an Australian first, the revolutionary RailBed. The RailBed is a spacious and comfortable seat by day that includes a state-of-the-art personal entertainment system, a 240v powerpoint and a USB point.

In the evening, the onboard team convert the seat to a lie-flat bed with all linen provided.

Features
All main meals served directly to your seat

Personal entertainment featuring a large screen with on-demand movies, music and audio books

Seat features include reading light, footrest, drink holder, 240v power adapter and USB charging

Towel and personal amenity pack with Queensland organic and sustainable products

All bed linen provided (sheets, duvet & pillow)

RailBed customers may check in two (2) items of luggage not exceeding 20kg each (44 pounds), plus one item of carry on hand luggage free of charge

Carry on luggage for under seat or overhead compartment, maximum size is 23cm x 34cm x 48cm and maximum weight is 20kg.
RailBedSpecifications
Seat recline - 35°
Pitch - 2065 mm
Configuration - 1:2
Aisle width - 500 mm
240 volt power access
USB access for charging devices
Headphone jack for the entertainment system
Bed length - window 1900mm, aisle 1700mm
Bed width - 515mm, Mattress depth - 75mm
Gap between aisle bed and RailBed in front - 250mm
Gap between window bed and RailBed in front - 50mm
Seat cushion width - 588mm
Screen size 50cm diagonally (18.5 inches)

 

[Class83]

Would 5/6 car bi-mode IEPs fitted with the lie flat beds which airlines use in business class be possible? Perhaps with 1st class remaining as individual cabins.

If the trains are too long for Euston, presumably different sections could be on adjacent platforms and couple on exiting the station.

 

[34D]

Now were talking! So what we are all wanting is:

-brand new coaches (tagged onto IEP somehow?)
-first class cabins with en suite toilet, and potentially showers too (with single person beds 3ft wide and doubles 5ft, all to the 'king' length of 6'6")
-standard class couchette with these Queensland-style lie flat beds, which become 1+1 day seats

The couchettes would need to have some kind of lockable cupboard for mobile phones/wallets.

Anyone care to draft a seating plan? I guess 1+1 with each bed on an angle would be the best? Or could 2+1 work?

 

[route:oxford]

Would 5/6 car bi-mode IEPs fitted with the lie flat beds which airlines use in business class be possible? Perhaps with 1st class remaining as individual cabins.

With IEP you could probably have 20 micro cabins each with one of those lie-flat beds in each coach.

 

[Yew]

Personally I cannot see an IEP derivative within the planned budget. However my 'wishlist' includes;



- Power sockets and free wifi for all.

- Mk3 Lounge and sleeping cars

- Investigation into using new corridor connections, to reduce the squeeking.

- Interior refub to a good standard, with modern design cues.

- General mechanical overhaul.

- Attempts to improve sound proofing

- Earlier boarding times on the lowland, and if possible later alighting times. as Although for business being at waverly or euston for 8am is useful, its
not as good for tourists.

- a Better Bargain Berth interface

- Improvements to the breakfast, and more substantial offerings available at the lounge car. Hopefully if a Mk3 lounge car is used, the better
equipped kitchen will facilitate this.

- Removal of sofas in Lounge in exchange for more seating.

- Overhaul of seated compartments, in an attempt to provide more priviacy. (using airline Pod seats maybe?>

 

[D841 Roebuck]

Apart from the cost considerations, wouldn't the difficulties of trying to sleep with a largeish underfloor engine rumbling away beneath you militate against an IEP/sleeper mashup?

I like the idea of serving Manchester, and in fact would suggest a calling pattern of Birmingham - Crewe - Manchester Vic - Leeds - York - Newcastle once the Trans Pennine electrification is completed.

Those Queensland seats seem a good idea as well.

 

[dcsprior]

Things that could be done now

• Take orders for a newspaper of your choice when you get in, which will be brought later in the journey. They could charge cover price + 50p and people would happily pay it.
• Allow you to buy through tickets to the continent, like you can with East Coast. Include the ability to check-in your luggage at Glasgow/Edinburgh and not have to touch it again until the other end

If there was a refurb of existing stock

• Mains sockets, with inbuilt USB ports for charging
• Wifi. Free for browsing (streaming and other high-bandwidth content blocked) but charge for premium services such as streaming films or live TV from a source on-train
• TV / Radio. Basic offering (Radio 1-6 + Radio Scotland + BBC News 24 + Train progress map) for free, unlocked to show other channels for £1/night, films available at a higher charge. Would only work with headphones.

Would probably require new stock

• At the cheapest level, equivalent to today's seated sleeper, have bunks with curtains, 3 high, longitudinally on each side of a central corridoor
• At the mid level, equivalent to today's standard class sleeper, have single cabins. This would mean having single cabins which took up less room - for instance having the bed of room 2 being above the bed of room 1.
• In first class, an en-suite toilet/shower.

Completely unrealistic

Some way of serving multiple London terminals, so as many passengers as possible can avoid following a relaxing sleeper journey with a less relaxing trip on the underground. For instance

• Somehow arrive at St Pancras (Edinburgh-York-Sheffield-St Pancras?)
• Thameslink to London Bridge, incl a stop at Farringdon to interchange with Crossrail
• Loop round to Victoria

Oh, and I must be the only person in the world that likes the Bargain Berth booking system since they last changed it!

 

[Yew]

Oh, and I must be the only person in the world that likes the Bargain Berth booking system since they last changed it!

Its good as it shows bargain berth fares when available, but it makes it harder to find bargain berths if you are flexiable with your dates

 

[Liam_Hendry]

Wider berths would be nice but would only work on new rolling stock rather than the dated MK3s

 

[route:oxford]

Things that could be done now

• Take orders for a newspaper of your choice when you get in, which will be brought later in the journey. They could charge cover price + 50p and people would happily pay it.

Very few other people would nowadays though...

News is free on-line.

 

[RPM]

I think it is absolutely essential to end the possibility of having to share a cabin with a stranger. Not sure what is the best way to achieve this but in the 21st century this should be a given, not an optional extra.

As has already been said, en suite toilets would be a major step forward.

More seated accommodation, available for walk-on fares.

 

[Urban Gateline]

I think it is absolutely essential to end the possibility of having to share a cabin with a stranger. Not sure what is the best way to achieve this but in the 21st century this should be a given, not an optional extra.

This already exists though, first class cabins are solo occupancy and also if you book for yourself and someone else who is coming on the trip with you then you are put together, I think thats sufficient already.

Otherwise the Bargain Berth and Advance fares will have to double in price to make up for lost revenue from Solo occupancy in Berths!

 

[marks87]

This already exists though, first class cabins are solo occupancy and also if you book for yourself and someone else who is coming on the trip with you then you are put together, I think thats sufficient already.

Otherwise the Bargain Berth and Advance fares will have to double in price to make up for lost revenue from Solo occupancy in Berths!

There is also a "solo supplement" for standard class berths, which is currently £59.40.

 

[Liam_Hendry]

I think it is absolutely essential to end the possibility of having to share a cabin with a stranger. Not sure what is the best way to achieve this but in the 21st century this should be a given, not an optional extra.

Perhaps bargain berths should be for sharing and normal berths and first class are for having a berth to yourself.

Practically it's just like having 1st, 2nd and 3rd class.

But your right in saying, there's not really a way to end the possiblility of sharing a berth.

 

[Oliver]

Would 5/6 car bi-mode IEPs fitted with the lie flat beds which airlines use in business class be possible? Perhaps with 1st class remaining as individual cabins.

If the trains are too long for Euston, presumably different sections could be on adjacent platforms and couple on exiting the station.

An IEP is a very expensive train to build and lease. I can't see any chance of them being used as new customised sleepers with "micro cabins" or whatever. You'd still be left with a train where each coach carried around 20 people and did one revenue generating round trip every two days.

Forget all the hype; the most we're going to get is the current sleepers with a refit, and possibly new lounge cars and "seated sleepers". Even that will require a continued heavy subsidy which will last until the Scottish Government runs out of money.

 

[Norther Monkey]

Retain the right to use standard 'inter-available' tickets in a reclining seat.

By all means improve/refurbish etc. but make sure that doing this doesn't raise the price of a 'flat bed' significantly. Throughout all the discussions there seems to be a risk of optimising the service for either 'one-off' leisure travellers who want a unique experience or those who are travelling on expenses.

There are a few of us who have to pay for our own weekly commute - and find the sleeper gives us extra time with our family. I am concerned that these plans may price me off the service. A carriage with airline business class type beds would seem to be a good idea, a compromise between comfort and paying punters per carriage. Or a simple couchette - my requirement is overnight travel, with as much sleep as possible, but within a budget.

 

[lukeobrien02]

i travelled from Euston to Fort William in april last year and it was hot in london so departing from london the ac didn't work and then at 3:30 was woken up by a large jolt and lots of noise as the train split. the at 6:30 was woken up by light streaming through the window as the blind was broken and the heating didn't work which was a problem because it was cold outside and someone had left the door window open you could hear everything from the next cabin.

so from a new sleeper
plug doors
Functioning ac/heating
more sound proofing
earlier boarding
less noise when dividing

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm starting to think that one thing that might be a good idea for the Caledonian Sleeper operator to have a chat with FGW about how they run the Night Riviera. Can't recall ever having an issue with the AC or the blinds. Also unless you're travelling with someone you know you won't have to share as the Sleeper is standard class throughout with solo travellers travelling by themselves for no extra charge (beyond that for actually getting a berth!).

 

[Amy Worrall]

Also unless you're travelling with someone you know you won't have to share as the Sleeper is standard class throughout with solo travellers travelling by themselves for no extra charge (beyond that for actually getting a berth!).

Really? I booked recently, and it offered me £35 for sharing a berth or £50 for solo occupancy.

 

[Furrball]

Do not see why so many people seem to want an ensuite toilet. You do not get this even if you fly 1st class.

A toilet in the cabin increases the amount of time taken to clean the berths, increases their complexity and is just something else to go wrong.

One of biggest problems with the current MK3 is noise - be it rattles from the doors and shelves or from the underfloor air conditioning units and ancillary equipment. We have taken to carrying a door stop with us to try and address the door problems and always try and avoid the cabins in the very centre of the carriage as those seem to be the ones that suffer the worse from underfloor noise (on a couple of occasions you would have thought there was an engine under there it was that noisy!)

 

[Surreyman]

I 'did' an online market-research study a little while back that turned out to be for a new London - Scotland Rail Sleeper service.
Questions seemed to aimed at finding a balance between luxury and cost, plus what facilities I would want to find onboard.
Questions also around the various means of transport and how often I travelled. i.e Car, daytime train, plane, speed of journey etc.
I came to the conclusion that I wanted a luxury i.e on suite compartment with TV, internet access, hot drinks and a shower, no other frills but all at a low cost!
They must be aware that Megabus is running a 'budget' sleeper service at one end of the market, maybe they think there is a market for a super luxury 5 star service at the other!

 

[jcevans]

http://www.altavelocidad.org/index....l-despliegue-de-los-servicios-internacionales

If RENFE and SNCF are discontinuing there sleeper service from Paris to Barcelona surely that means there might be some spare sleeper stock about?

 

[Bald Rick]

http://www.altavelocidad.org/index....l-despliegue-de-los-servicios-internacionales

If RENFE and SNCF are discontinuing there sleeper service from Paris to Barcelona surely that means there might be some spare sleeper stock about?

And perhaps that the dynamic, thrusting nationalised rail industries of France and Spain have identified that there is no market for sleeper services between the largest metropolitan area of the former and second city of the latter when the new TGV service can do it in 5 1/2 h or so.

 

[ainsworth74]

http://www.altavelocidad.org/index....l-despliegue-de-los-servicios-internacionales

If RENFE and SNCF are discontinuing there sleeper service from Paris to Barcelona surely that means there might be some spare sleeper stock about?

That will knock the edge of any platform it rolls through, likely strike any bridges/tunnels it goes under/through and quite possibly be struck by passing trains in some situations. Continental stock will not fit on our network without significant work on said network.

 

[jcevans]

sorry Im ignorant on this subject. I though they just has to replace the wheels and axles?

 

[ainsworth74]

sorry Im ignorant on this subject. I though they just has to replace the wheels and axles?

You're thinking of stock used in Ireland (the both RoI and NI) which is broad gauge (1,600mm). The majority of stock used on the continent is exactly the same gauge (1,435mm) as is used here. The issue is with the loading gauge, which is to do with the size of the vehicles themselves and the infrastructure that they run on. See here for a description of what that means. The continent has a much larger (generally) loading gauge than we do here meaning that their vehicles are, on the whole, unusable in the UK without spending large sums of money to gauge clear any routes they'd be used on.

 

[jcevans]

Is everyone agreed that there is no commercial interest in a premium first class service? It could subsidise the rest of the train and would be akin to a five star hotel experience.

 

[jon0844]

Is everyone agreed that there is no commercial interest in a premium first class service? It could subsidise the rest of the train and would be akin to a five star hotel experience.

I can see some first class cabins, perhaps with their own toilets and showers, at a premium price - as I expect there are still a fair few people that have plenty of money and demand travel of a certain standard. I know many companies now have a first class ban, but not all.

For most people, the fold flat beds and privacy from screens (as with most airplane first class offerings), would be more than enough - and allow more people to fit on the train - thus increasing revenue and profitability.

By all means also chuck in even cheaper bunks or more tilting chairs for even more occupancy.