Blocking a public right of way?

[Prairie_5542]

Just curious and hoping someone will know the answer to this. Supposing that a train broke down on a foot crossing or a road and was blocking it ice preventing people from crossing it. What would the deal be if it were a public right of way? Would the TOC be fined/prosecuted for obstruction? Your views please.thanks

 

[Gwenllian2001]

Just curious and hoping someone will know the answer to this. Supposing that a train broke down on a foot crossing or a road and was blocking it ice preventing people from crossing it. What would the deal be if it were a public right of way? Would the TOC be fined/prosecuted for obstruction? Your views please.thanks

I doubt it. It's not as if it were deliberate obstruction.

 

[Proud Salopian]

It would have to be unreasonable... ie if the train could be moved but wasn't then it would count as an obstruction. Things stop on the highway (be it a road or path or bridleway or whatever) all the time.

 

[michael769]

You can only be fined for "unnecessary obstruction".

One can debate what is and is not necessary, but an obstruction due to a breakdown is not an offence provided that you take reasonable steps to remove the obstruction.

 

[Ploughman]

That sort of problem occurs quite often.
Engineering possessions often have rights of way across them in the form of footpaths, Level Crossings etc
These all need to be considered as part of the works planning procedure.
Roads etc are actually easier to deal with as you apply for a road closure through the local council.
Footpaths are more difficult and the easiest way around it is to provide an escort at the footpath if it happens to be within the worksite.


The time and place you don't want to be anywhere near a crossing is Saturday Night / Sunday morning at Spring Bank LC in Hull when the Taxis dump the drunks at the crossing and you have them climbing over the works trains when you are trying to move the train.

 

[DXMachina]

I guess the 'public right of way' across a level crossing in law only exists when the railway isnt actively using that section of track - else you'd have legal problems such as it being ok to obstruct the path of a train...

If my guess is right the right of way would have been suspended while the train blocked it and there would be no right to proceed onto the tracks and try to squeeze under it.

 

[Llanigraham]

As above, however it also depends on how the original Act of Parliament was written. In many instances a public Right of Way ceases at the Railway boundary and restarts the other side.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Looking at rural situations where level crossings are found, would any such blockage be immediately required to be formally notified to all the emergency services, as there may not be another crossing in the area for their vehicles to use.

 

[Tomnick]

Allsops Lane bridleway crossing, just south of Loughborough Midland station, has been closed for some months now by Network Rail on safety grounds, pending the construction of a bridge. I don't know whether they've gone through formal channels though.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

Looking at rural situations where level crossings are found, would any such blockage be immediately required to be formally notified to all the emergency services, as there may not be another crossing in the area for their vehicles to use.

I'm not sure if there is any requirement to notify any of the services (except, possibly, the police), however traffic orders may have to be issued which the services are notified of. If not, a coroner would look very dimly on it even if there was no requirement if such a blockage adversely affected someone because of no notification occuring.

 

[Prairie_5542]

It is an arrest-able offence to cause wilful obstruction and obstruction of the highway. Lets say the train driver stopped the train across a road on a level crossing and would not move it when asked to do so by police, and did not have a reason not to move it. What would happen then??

 

[ralphchadkirk]

It is an arrest-able offence to cause wilful obstruction and obstruction of the highway.

There's no such thing as an arrestable offence.

Lets say the train driver stopped the train across a road on a level crossing and would not move it when asked to do so by police, and did not have a reason not to move it. What would happen then??

I'm not really sure what your getting at here? A driver stopping a train over a level crossing for no other reason than seeing how long he can make a traffic jam and then refusing to move his train when asked to do so by the police? Never going to happen.

 

[Prairie_5542]

There's no such thing as

an arrestable offence.

I'm not really sure what your getting at here? A driver stopping a train over a level crossing for no other reason than seeing how long he can make a traffic jam and then refusing to move his train when asked to do so by the police? Never going to happen.

What is it then?

 

[ralphchadkirk]

What is it then?

It's an offence. All offences are potentially arrestable, subject to passing the necessity test.

 

[Prairie_5542]

It's an offence. All offences are potentially arrestable, subject to passing the necessity test.

Yep. Thank you for clearing that up, wrote post quickly

 

[Trog]

Footpaths are more difficult and the easiest way around it is to provide an escort at the footpath if it happens to be within the worksite.

I have had that in the distant past where a footpath that had been deserted on the week-days while we were planning and surveying the job suddenly got busy on the Sunday. We had to walk people 200yards up the cess, to get round the back of the spoil train. Cross the open running lines then walk them back down the dig stopping the diggers as we went. The Ramblers were very nice about it and said it was the most interesting part of their days walk.

 

[Tomnick]

It is an arrest-able offence to cause wilful obstruction and obstruction of the highway. Lets say the train driver stopped the train across a road on a level crossing and would not move it when asked to do so by police, and did not have a reason not to move it. What would happen then??

Ha, brilliant . They're a nuisance, aren't they, all these train drivers that just come to a stand in the middle of nowhere for no good reason and refuse to move?

Failed trains on crossings presumably are treated similarly to failed LCs themselves - an inconvenience, but nothing more, and not much different to a road traffic incident blocking a road. Indeed, the Police are often present, particularly at AHBs, to help prevent impatient motorists from taking matters into their own hands.

 

[455driver]

I'm not really sure what your getting at here?

He is just looking for a way to make the railways (especially train drivers, yawn) the bad guys!

A rather pointless thread this as his original question has been answered but because he didnt get the answer he wanted he is off on a witch hunt. :roll:

 

[Prairie_5542]

He is just looking for a way to make the railways (especially train drivers, yawn) the bad guys!

A rather pointless thread this as his original question has been answered but because he didnt get the answer he wanted he is off on a witch hunt. :roll:

Hi 455driver, not at all. I am merely asking what IF this did happen and how would it be resolved. I do my upmost to promote the railway!!

 

[455driver]

Well as a train driver for <cough> years I cannot remember a driver ever parking a train anywhere they shouldnt have, I really do not understand where else you can be going with this thread.

 

[jnty]

Hi 455driver, not at all. I am merely asking what IF this did happen and how would it be resolved. I do my upmost to promote the railway!!

Men in white coats would come and take them away? What you're describing would almost certainly be a one-off and would depend on all sorts of things, not least whatever was making the driver act so strangely. You might as well ask what if a driver phoned up a signaller at a station saying he was refusing to leave, or if a guard just decided one day that he wasn't going to open the doors for the passengers.

 

[Prairie_5542]

Men in white coats would come and take them away? What you're describing would almost certainly be a one-off and would depend on all sorts of things, not least whatever was making the driver act so strangely. You might as well ask what if a driver phoned up a signaller at a station saying he was refusing to leave, or if a guard just decided one day that he wasn't going to open the doors for the passengers.

I was merely asking a question that was all. Things happen out of the ordinary, we may be faced with this situation in the future.

 

[Ploughman]

Looking at rural situations where level crossings are found, would any such blockage be immediately required to be formally notified to all the emergency services, as there may not be another crossing in the area for their vehicles to use.

In a couple of cases that has happened to me.
We were renewing the track through crossings which where the sole means of access to a property and in one case to a village.
In the case of the village we had to provide a means of bridging the level crossing suitable to take the weight of a fire appliance and a parking area for residents vehicles on the accessible side of the crossing, with an escorted crossing of the excavation.
In other cases just providing a parking area for residents sufficed.

As for road closures, these are passed on to the emergency services as a matter of course.
However if they then choose to ignore them that is up to them.
2 cases I have personally seen are a squad car under "Blues and Twos" ended up in the excavation through Snaith and Pontefract LC at Hensall after driving past all the closure signs, officer said he was chasing another vehicle, no other vehicle in the hole though, did it fly across?
The second incident was when I was at Weaverthorpe crossing when a motorist asked if she could come across the crossing as she only lived a few houses up the road. I said sorry but No as she had passed at least 8 Road Closed signs, you can park up and walk over though.
She then flashed her Warrant Card not even for me?
I said even more reason for not coming across as she would have been briefed at the Police station about the closure.

 

[55018ballymoss]

I tend to agree with the view of the drivers here.
It is never their intention to stop and block a crossing, but when it happens, perhaps due to a failure, or an unusual movement, there is no such offence as obstructing the highway on level crossings. At least not for trains!
Moronic car/bus/lorry drivers who pause on crossings when the exit is not clear, or attempt to cross when barriers are lowering, and block crossings can and are prosecuted for endangering the railway!
It might be argued that the law is unfair against road vehicle drivers, but sometimes life is unfair!

 

[infobleep]

On a related note, do rail companies have to put up diversion signs an d if so does this extend to the level crossing itself?

Myself and another person I know ended up at Farnham station level crossing last Friday. This was the station forecourt side.

With the aid of a doggy 3g connection and Google maps just about managed to find our way round. Did see a diversion sign at one point but only the one.

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[Llanigraham]

On a related note, do rail companies have to put up diversion signs an d if so does this extend to the level crossing itself?

Around here, if it is a planned closure and a Traffic Regulation Order has been granted then the County Council put signs up. If it is unplanned, due to say a failure, no-one puts any signs out and we get abused!

 

[infobleep]

Well it appears that perhaps Surrey County Council didn't put up enough signs in this case.

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