Train cleaning during turn around

[anti-pacer]

Going back to the Metro papers, it seems pointless that we have to take them away and then bin them only for the next passenger to bring a fresh Metro onboard. The idea of leaving them in luggage racks makes sense to me, except that the London Overground trains have no such rack. I'd be in favour of a newspaper rack fitted by each set of doors so we can encourage reuse of these papers.

Not really sure I'd want to read the same paper that someone else has been flicking through. Who knows what could be on their hands! Urgh! :-?
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Unfortunately I have witnessed littering done by all sorts of people - teenagers, businessmen, shoppers, mothers, children, the lot. When challenged about it they either ignore you or question why you dare to criticise them (in my experience)

I have no qualms challenging people.

Only yesterday I watched a teenage scrote stuff an empty crisp packet in a hedge. I went up to him, told him I was a "plain clothes litter enforcement officer" and failure to remove said item and place it in a bin would result in a £80 fine!

He duly obliged!

 

[Nestor]

Especially at Euston (some) trains have to be locked out so as to make safe when coupling to another unit.
So cleaning time is more restrictive during inbound traffic!

 

[Muzer]

Think you'll find this was a deliberate policy decision following 7/7

If this is true, what rubbish. They could easily have clear plastic bag type bins like at stations. And it's not like you can use the "easy to hide" argument either - I'm sure if you were dedicated you could find plenty of places on any train to hide something aside from the bins.

 

[Flamingo]

Two points to highlight from this thread
- If leaving rubbish on the train at a terminating station, leave it easily accessible for the cleaners on the seat or table, not the floor. Nothing is worse than having to crawl around under seats to get rubbish that has effectively been hidden, and it can be easier to scoop it off at table than grope around in a bin.

- One of the main purposes of the buffet bag is to contain the hot drink if dropped, otherwise the lid comes off and it explodes all over everybody in the area. If there are no buffet bags, we can't sell hot drinks unless drinking them at the buffet. ("But I don't plan on dropping my drink!". "Nobody does".)

 

[ainsworth74]

If there are no buffet bags, we can't sell hot drinks unless drinking them at the buffet. ("But I don't plan on dropping my drink!". "Nobody does".)

What if they plan to drop their drink in a controlled fashion?

Also I never realised that's why they gave you a bag so thanks for that!

 

[Tibbs]

If this is true, what rubbish. They could easily have clear plastic bag type bins like at stations. And it's not like you can use the "easy to hide" argument either - I'm sure if you were dedicated you could find plenty of places on any train to hide something aside from the bins.

Of course the elephant in the room is that terrorists nowadays don't hide their bombs, they wear them.

But then again they must be seen to be doing something...

 

[Flamingo]

Of course the elephant in the room is that terrorists nowadays don't hide their bombs, they wear them.

But then again they must be seen to be doing something...

Of course, they might wear them because they can't hide them very easily...

 

[Tibbs]

Of course, they might wear them because they can't hide them very easily...

They wear them because they (allegedly) get to go to paradise if they martyr themselves on holy jihad. Also you can get a much bigger bomb in a backpack than you can in a tiny bin.

I can't believe I've actually had to explain this.

 

[Mintona]

I can't believe you think all terrorists are Muslim suicide bombers!

 

[Tibbs]

I can't believe you think all terrorists are Muslim suicide bombers!

We were talking about 7/7.

Anyway, what other terrorist groups are active on the uk mainland right now? The last IRA bomb was in 2001, and other groups (animal rights, environmentalists) go after specific targets rather than widespread destruction. They've moved away from explosive devices anyway because of the negative press they garnered as a result.

/edit as ever we're preparing for the last war (in this case the one before) rather than the next one.

 

[Flamingo]

They wear them because they (allegedly) get to go to paradise if they martyr themselves on holy jihad. Also you can get a much bigger bomb in a backpack than you can in a tiny bin.

I can't believe I've actually had to explain this.

I can't believe I've had to read it...

Several IRA splinter groups are desperate to relaunch a campagain on the mainland. Read the papers. The reason they have not had a successful attack outside of NI is not because they have declared a truce, or decided it's too much hassle.

Much as AQ operatives might like the thought of their 24 virgins, if their bosses decide on a strategy of preserving the troops for as long as possible, one small IED on a train would get as many headlines and cause nearly as much disruption as a slightly bigger one being caried by Ahmed. There is a limit to what will fit in a case/rucsack as well.

 

[Tibbs]

I can't believe I've had to read it...

Several IRA splinter groups are desperate to relaunch a campagain on the mainland. Read the papers. The reason they have not had a successful attack outside of NI is not because they have declared a truce, or decided it's too much hassle.

Much as AQ operatives might like the thought of their 24 virgins, if their bosses decide on a strategy of preserving the troops for as long as possible, one small IED on a train would get as many headlines and cause nearly as much disruption as a slightly bigger one being caried by Ahmed. There is a limit to what will fit in a case/rucsack as well.

They may be desperate, but there's a huge issue for them around credible threat.

They're struggling to get anything away in their back yard, let alone anywhere else.

And as for preserving troops - it's pretty clear volunteers aren't in short supply, and the martyrdom is a key part of the whole thing.

But we're well off topic again.

 

[Flamingo]

To repeat a much used phrase, they only have to get lucky once...

But as you say, this is a long way away from buffet bags.

 

[island]

I would strongly posit that most food & drink taken onto the train was bought at the station, so by your rationale should be carried the same distance off the train and therefore disposed of at the station.

Given the dearth of litter bins at most stations what should we do with it there?

Exactly.

I thought they did. To be fair, it is easier to carry a bag down the aisle for most people that a hot drink in your hand.

And H&S too as mentioned above.

The problem is the regular shortage of bins on trains. If the terrorism argument were logical, which it isn't, there would be no bins whatsoever, but there's always one in the toilets, and it's rare indeed to have no toilets on a National Rail train, excepting corner cases such as the 139s.

The difference however can be immense, with 465s having ten bins per carriage and 321s having them only in every other carriage, from memory.

 

[Tom B]

I will happily put rubbish I generate in a bin. The problem is that bins appear to be in short supply (usually the terrorism excuse is wheeled out). Indeed, I have been told several times when asking where the bin is that I should drop the litter and the cleaner will sweep it up.

There cannot really be an excuse for a train to leave a large terminus in a dirty condition - as others have said King's Cross does do well in this regard. The cleaners go through and pick up litter, wipe any spillages up, put some bleach down the toilets etc, which leaves it in a much more presentable state going out.

I usually find (anecdotal evidence here, I admit) the cleaners finish in plenty of time before the train is ready to leave, and any delay is whilst the guard puts the seat reservations out. Even during delays they usually manage to sweep through in a similar time to what it takes for the driver/guard to change over, buffer supplies to be loaded etc. I have had a few occasions where a train has been put on the boards and gone to board to be met by an indignant guard who is still putting the reservations on, mind.

 

[CC 72100]

I will happily put rubbish I generate in a bin. The problem is that bins appear to be in short supply (usually the terrorism excuse is wheeled out). Indeed, I have been told several times when asking where the bin is that I should drop the litter and the cleaner will sweep it up.

Which is all perfectly good if you're on the way to the terminus, but if you're half way through the journey and people will be shortly joining the service, it isn't ideal for them.

When using services in Devon, it is quite frequent to find them quite messy with litter either 'waiting to be picked up' or that has just been left there without thought of people who may sit there later in the journey. Very worst train for this is the 19:45 London Pad - Plymouth, the Evening Standard Express. The crowd that use that seem to be of the opinion that its fine to leave rubbish where it is, as no-one will be wanting to board the train and sit down at a table without rubbish after Taunton - at least some people are a little more considerate in leaving it in the buffet bag, although a fair few see no wrong in leaving half their banana on the table, a coffee cup wedged between the seat and the wall, a sandwich wrapper over the seat and a paper (not folded, with papers loose) over the table/seats. XC services that have come from quite a way can also be bad, with people playing 'where is the best place that I can jam that coffee cup into and make the job of doing a quick sweep through for litter difficult'.

Core I sound like a moaner today! :roll:

 

[D6975]

Sorry if this comes across as blunt, but surely if you managed to carry the stuff (say a sandwich and drink for yourself and your child) on board before it became simply litter it should be just as easy to continue to carry the packaging once you've finished?
Even better, if you've lots of bags with you why not stick an old supermarket carrier in one of the side pockets and use that to put your rubbish in- that'll make it much easier to carry to the nearest available bin.

No, I didn't carry it on board - it was purchased on board.

 

[johntea]

On the subject of cleaning, when do the Northern trains on the Blackpool run generally get cleaned?

As I was on one last night and there was so much sand dragged on it I might as well still have been on the beach in Blackpool