Train cleaning during turn around

[Latecomer]

Indeed! Having read it a few times it has a perceived dislike of the railways.. perhaps that's why.

I tend to avoid it.

It's still not half as bad as the Standard. They use every opportunity to have a pop at the railways and railway staff.

 

[jon0844]

I also don't see how passengers being on the train impedes the cleaners. If anything, in my experience, they help as they (including me) gather up all the rubbish making it quicker for the cleaner to put it in their bag.

But then again I've only boarded a train early once a fortnight or so for the past 18 months so my sample base may be smaller than yours.

Can't speak for an Intercity service, but on FCC the cleaners will come through when the train has already been announced - often due to some fairly tight turnarounds - and certainly people do help by passing over (dry and clean) items of rubbish.

I usually took a Metro in the morning but ALWAYS took it with me. Especially with me getting off at Old Street, as people that simply put their copy on the few benches along the platform obviously didn't have the brains to realise that as soon as the train left, it created a vacuum that often took the paper(s) and down onto the tracks.

There are perfectly good bins along most streets or at your office, and most offices should have recycling facilities.

 

[CarltonA]

I witnessed some poor behaviour by a cleaning supervisor at a London terminus once. He was photgraphing newspapers and rubbish left in the overhead racks. He did this by standing on the seats to get a better angle.

 

[tsr]

I hear what you're saying, but could we be confident that the person picking up all sorts of filthy rubbish would wear gloves/wash their hands before then serving drinks or food items?

Some FGW Customer Hosts clear rubbish (bare hands usually) from First Class into a bin bag, wash their hands in a toilet or at the buffet car (leaving toilet doors open so no hand contact after washing) and then return to the trolley/buffet. Some others are less keen to clear rubbish, which I think is perfectly understandable if there isn't much of it (so not worth the bother), there is a big mess which they can't clean up, or the train is approaching a station where it should be checked (e.g. Paddington).

 

[anti-pacer]

Northern Rail don't seem to have got to grips with train cleaning.

Trains get cleaned in Blackpool and Carlisle during service, and you get the odd travelling cleaner, but these are few and far between.

The bins on trains are tiny so get full quickly, but that's no excuse for leaving your litter on the train. If a bin is full my rubbish comes with me, and stays with me until I can find a bin.

It's quite easy really but to some it's obviously a problem, hence the dirty trains.

 

[GodAtum]

Think you'll find this was a deliberate policy decision following 7/7

if trains arent provided with bins where are passengers meant to dispose of their rubbish

 

[paulypaul]

I don't know if it is onboard staff or a cleaner, but EMT usualy come around with a big rubbish bag before arriving at St Pancras, which seems to clear a lot of rubbish up.

If I'm on a platform, with an onboard cleaner working I wait before boarding until a cleaner has cleaned an area and sit there.

 

[jon0844]

I think the mindset is 'If they can't be bothered to empty the bins...' and then chucking it on the floor, the seat, the luggage racks or wherever.

Most train bins, certainly some on a FCC train will be full with just a few newspapers, or one or, possibly, two McDonald's meals (packaging/drink). You can probably squeeze a bit more in by pressing hard, but I guess people can't be bothered and just find comfort in thinking by convincing themselves it's not their fault they threw it on the floor.

If all the bins were full, I might say something to the TOC to see if they can possibly empty them a bit more - but I wouldn't dream of chucking rubbish on the floor. It would be an inconvenience to have to hunt around for another bin, but one that is worth doing for the comfort of other passengers (and the hope that most would do that for me). It's called society, or so I thought.

 

[FGW_DID]

if trains arent provided with bins where are passengers meant to dispose of their rubbish

Take it with you until you do find a bin!

 

[D6975]

Take it with you until you do find a bin!

Not always possible. If you're travelling with a little one, and as many items of luggage as you can manage between you (as I have recently), taking your litter with you simply isn't an option.

 

[1e10]

I hear what you're saying, but could we be confident that the person picking up all sorts of filthy rubbish would wear gloves/wash their hands before then serving drinks or food items?

Last night's 1927 XC service from Manchester Piccadilly to Southampton was filthy on departure from Manchester. I think it had arrived, if on time, at 1859 and clearly no cleaning had taken place in that time whatsoever.

There was lots of food debris, crushed crisps, drink cartons and cups with dregs in them, and in one coach something in a plastic bag left on an overhead rack which had clearly leaked and was dripping on several seats along the coach. Looks like somebody had been having a right party on the incoming journey. There was no mid-journey cleaning in evidence before Birmingham, at any rate.

I see, even if they just had a bag attached for passengers to use it would be better than what is in place at the moment.

Also if I find rubbish at my seat then I clear it before I leave. I would hate to think that someone would think the rubbish is mine and what sort of character that may associate with me for that.

 

[142094]

Not always possible. If you're travelling with a little one, and as many items of luggage as you can manage between you (as I have recently), taking your litter with you simply isn't an option.

Surely if you were able to take it on board, there is room to also take it with you at the end of your journey? That is unless buying on board, but most services with catering had adequate numbers of bins or on train cleaners.

Re the Metro paper. Completely agree that it is a waste of resources. Most people have a quick scan through, and the vast majority of the stories are regurgitated press releases from the news agencies. However I've noticed in the past few years that the number of paid for papers left on trains has dropped quite a bit, even with ones such as i with are only 20p.

 

[Tibbs]

Surely if you were able to take it on board, there is room to also take it with you at the end of your journey? That is unless buying on board, but most services with catering had adequate numbers of bins or on train cleaners.

Re the Metro paper. Completely agree that it is a waste of resources. Most people have a quick scan through, and the vast majority of the stories are regurgitated press releases from the news agencies. However I've noticed in the past few years that the number of paid for papers left on trains has dropped quite a bit, even with ones such as i with are only 20p.

I would strongly posit that most food & drink taken onto the train was bought at the station, so by your rationale should be carried the same distance off the train and therefore disposed of at the station.

Given the dearth of litter bins at most stations what should we do with it there?

 

[142094]

I would strongly posit that most food & drink taken onto the train was bought at the station, so by your rationale should be carried the same distance off the train and therefore disposed of at the station.

Given the dearth of litter bins at most stations what should we do with it there?

Keep it until you find a bin? They are not exactly that hard to find outside stations.

 

[jon0844]

If you buy a drink on a train, don't they give it in a bag now (to stop it spilling as you walk). If so, you've got a nice easy way to take the rubbish with you off the train if you have to.

 

[chuckles1066]

I too find it annoying the amount of rubbish people leave behind on the train

On my brief sojourn onto the railways in the winter of 2010, I never bothered trying to find a seat; for the trip to Bath it wasn't necessary as I'm fit enough to be able to stand in that area between carriages for the duration.

I did, however, observe, on one journey, a discarded partially eaten cheese sandwich.

There it was, on the floor. It had a single bite mark out of it and you could see the teeth indentations.

The sad thing was, it was right next to the bin?

At what point is (a) eating a cheese sandwich and (b) chucking it onto the floor when there's a bin right in front of you, ever a good idea?

Maybe the bread was stale or the cheese was off? But, FFS, use the bins provided.

 

[cjp]

In the interest of balance let me just record how I have been impressed with how well East Coast do this at Kings Cross in just a few minutes with a hard working team - from cleaning up to topping up the water. Well organised, I did not think that they would get it done in time but they did.

 

[rmt4ever]

If you buy a drink on a train, don't they give it in a bag now (to stop it spilling as you walk). If so, you've got a nice easy way to take the rubbish with you off the train if you have to.

LOL I dont think if I walk to the buffet car and ask for a black coffee they would give it in a bag... haha. Maybe if I asked for it and a sandwich and cake or something !

Giving a bag just for a coffee would create MORE rubbish to be collected (and go to landfill)

 

[jon0844]

I thought they did. To be fair, it is easier to carry a bag down the aisle for most people that a hot drink in your hand.

 

[Drsatan]

Going back on topic, train cleaning is something that seems to be neglected. I once heard an anecdote about XC refusing to employ cleaners (and expecting guards to clean their trains en route), but from what I've read here that anecdote is probably false.

What is unfortunate is that especially at quieter stations (or at stations where few trains are booked to terminate), cleaning during turnarounds seems to get neglected. A good example would be Salisbury, where the 158 forming the 1756 departure to Romsey obviously hadn't been cleaned despite a 40 minute turnaround. Whether this was due to cleaners being off sick or due to SWT not hiring enough cleaners, I don't know. But it's something that ought to be addressed: one way of doing so would be to stipulate train cleaning during train turnarounds for all services.

Additionally, while getting rid of litter is all well and good, litter in hard to reach places (like junk wedged between table and seat) doesn't create a good impression. While I'd say it's impossible to ensure that all trains look factory fresh in service (which is what a well known 'hater' of GA on Twitter would like, I imagine), the frequency of deep cleans ought to be addressed as well to ensure interiors don't become too shabby.

 

[1e10]

In the interest of balance let me just record how I have been impressed with how well East Coast do this at Kings Cross in just a few minutes with a hard working team - from cleaning up to topping up the water. Well organised, I did not think that they would get it done in time but they did.

Their cleaning process/staff were featured in a BBC programme once.

 

[PHILIPE]

FGW use Travelling Cleaners between Westbury and Bradford-on-Aven and ATW likewise between Ludlow and Shrewsbury and Neath and Swansea. There may be other examples also.
At Bristol Temple Meads when a Paddington train arrives at Platform 13 or 15, there is announcement stating it will be the xx to Paddington but not available for boarding until cleaning has been completed.

 

[Dave1987]

At Bristol Temple Meads when a Paddington train arrives at Platform 13 or 15, there is announcement stating it will be the xx to Paddington but not available for boarding until cleaning has been completed.

That's something I feel they should do at liv st to give the cleaners a chance.

 

[SussexMan]

I also don't see how passengers being on the train impedes the cleaners. If anything, in my experience, they help as they (including me) gather up all the rubbish making it quicker for the cleaner to put it in their bag.

But then again I've only boarded a train early once a fortnight or so for the past 18 months so my sample base may be smaller than yours.

There are different situations though:

One is where the passengers on the train are the people who generated most of the mess. Posters have mentioned travelling cleaners and on other services on-board staff do a walk through the train asking people for their rubbish. Passengers then seem very willing to put things in the bin which is being brought past them. And this is being done before passengers are starting to stand up and get ready to disembark so makes it easier for staff to walk through.

The other is where the train is trying to be cleaned but new passengers are getting on. Passengers are less happy to be putting other people's rubbish in the bin and you have the added problem of people wanting to walk down the aisles impeding the cleaners etc.

Passengers shouldn't board trains until they are told the train is ready.

And of course if everyone disposed of their rubbish themselves we wouldn't be having this discussion.

 

[Tibbs]

There are different situations though:

One is where the passengers on the train are the people who generated most of the mess. Posters have mentioned travelling cleaners and on other services on-board staff do a walk through the train asking people for their rubbish. Passengers then seem very willing to put things in the bin which is being brought past them. And this is being done before passengers are starting to stand up and get ready to disembark so makes it easier for staff to walk through.

The other is where the train is trying to be cleaned but new passengers are getting on. Passengers are less happy to be putting other people's rubbish in the bin and you have the added problem of people wanting to walk down the aisles impeding the cleaners etc.

Passengers shouldn't board trains until they are told the train is ready.

And of course if everyone disposed of their rubbish themselves we wouldn't be having this discussion.

No we're not, I'm talking of exactly the same situation as you.

Train at a terminus station, in my case Euston.
Passengers and cleaning staff get on at the same time.
Passengers sit in seats
As cleaner comes round passengers throw rubbish in bag, passes rubbish to cleaner or puts it in an accessible place for cleaner to pick up

This what I see every time I'm on a train at Euston when a cleaner is on.

Why would passengers deliberately impede a cleaner? I realise commenters are generally held in disdain here, but I think you're taking it a bit far. It's in the commuter's interest to have a clean train.

How have passengers, in your experience, been impeding the cleaners?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Not always possible. If you're travelling with a little one, and as many items of luggage as you can manage between you (as I have recently), taking your litter with you simply isn't an option.

Sorry if this comes across as blunt, but surely if you managed to carry the stuff (say a sandwich and drink for yourself and your child) on board before it became simply litter it should be just as easy to continue to carry the packaging once you've finished?
Even better, if you've lots of bags with you why not stick an old supermarket carrier in one of the side pockets and use that to put your rubbish in- that'll make it much easier to carry to the nearest available bin.

 

[BestWestern]

LOL I dont think if I walk to the buffet car and ask for a black coffee they would give it in a bag... haha. Maybe if I asked for it and a sandwich and cake or something !

Giving a bag just for a coffee would create MORE rubbish to be collected (and go to landfill)

They do - 'elf n safety

The little paper bag is intended to make your drink easier to carry whilst negotiating a moving train, and thus reduce the risk of you launching scalding hot coffee over somebody. On FGW, the buffet crew get in trouble if the bag is not issued to the customer, with the drink being placed in it before it is given to them. Staff are also expected to do the same. It doesn't make too much of a negative impact on the litter front, in fact you tend to find even if people don't take the rubbish with them they will sometimes at least place it all into the bag.

FGW's contract cleaners at Paddington always do an especially impressive job. An eight coach HST set will arrive and often have only 20 minutes before departing again; the cleaning team, usually about four of them, will be awaiting it's arrival at the appropriate platform and immediately descend, thoroughly clearing all rubbish, mopping toilet floors, removing old window and seat reservation labels and applying new, and they're done within about 10 minutes or so. Good work!

 

[DarloRich]

Virgin and EC seem to have traveling cleaners on board which seems a good idea. Surely that reduces the burden on the cleaners at the terminus

 

[jon0844]

The little paper bag is intended to make your drink easier to carry whilst negotiating a moving train, and thus reduce the risk of you launching scalding hot coffee over somebody. On FGW, the buffet crew get in trouble if the bag is not issued to the customer, with the drink being placed in it before it is given to them. Staff are also expected to do the same. It doesn't make too much of a negative impact on the litter front, in fact you tend to find even if people don't take the rubbish with them they will sometimes at least place it all into the bag

Besides the H&S joke, I think it's a really good idea. It can be hard to walk down the aisle of a train, so having a drink (or two) is a LOT easier to carry and the bag will sway with the train, reducing the likelihood of it spilling.

And you summed it up perfectly with the fact that people will most likely use that bag to put rubbish in.

On trains in Denmark and Sweden, you'll often see a load of bags underneath a table that people can pull and use for rubbish. Whether they put that in a bin, take it with them or just leave it on the table I don't know - but at least it's easier to pick up and probably keeps stuff off the seats and messing up the floor (things that are somewhat harder to clean on a short turnaround).

 

[maniacmartin]

Going back to the Metro papers, it seems pointless that we have to take them away and then bin them only for the next passenger to bring a fresh Metro onboard. The idea of leaving them in luggage racks makes sense to me, except that the London Overground trains have no such rack. I'd be in favour of a newspaper rack fitted by each set of doors so we can encourage reuse of these papers.

As for leaving them on the floor, there is no excuse for that. Unfortunately I have witnessed littering done by all sorts of people - teenagers, businessmen, shoppers, mothers, children, the lot. When challenged about it they either ignore you or question why you dare to criticise them (in my experience)