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SWT Southampton area evening workings

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nw1

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A few questions and comments about SWT workings in the Southampton area in the evenings.

Firstly, from the new timetable, the 159 diagram that provides additional services between Winchester and Southampton during the peak is now indicated as "standard class only". Why is this? To provide more seats I guess, given SWT are not going to lose anything because very few people use first on these services anyway? Or is there an intention to convert this working to a 456 at some stage (not in this timetable obviously)?

A related question - in the *morning* peak one of the Portsmouth-Fareham-Eastleigh-Waterloo services (0755) is shadowed just 10 minutes later by a Portsmouth-Basingstoke at 0805. I'm guessing the reason for this is that the 0755 is very busy, but there are insufficient electric units to strengthen it, so they run the 0805 as a relief using the same 159 which does the above evening workings.

Secondly, there is both a 2155 (semi-fast) and a 2200 (fast)service to London out of Southampton. While I'm not one for wanting to cancel services, is there actually a need for both of these? The former is formed from the 1915 Waterloo-Southampton via Havant, because the 1939 out of Waterloo (which would normally form it) is needed for the 2130 fast (see below). Could they not combine these into one train calling at Parkway, Eastleigh, Winchester, Basingstoke, Fleet, Farnborough, Woking, Clapham Junction, Waterloo? Given how lightly loaded the 2130 was last night (front 3 coaches completely empty) there doesn't seem to be a lot of call for all three of the Waterloo services that time of night.

Conversely though, I think it would be a good idea for the 2130 from Southampton to start back at Bournemouth - in the summer at least. I was almost caught out last night by a nasty trap when returning from Brockenhurst or Bournemouth: not only does XC and the slow cease that time of night (fair enough) but one of the two fasts out of Bournemouth does too, meaning that the 15-min frequency service out of Brockenhurst suddenly reduces to hourly, meaning you're a bit screwed if you miss the 2045. Said train was well loaded with people returning from Bournemouth so I'd imagine in the summer, at least, the 2130 could start back from Bournemouth calling at Brockenhurst and providing a connection out of a Lymington train which otherwise has no connection at all (was caught out by this last year!) The timetable suggests plenty of 444s should be available in the Bournemouth area from slow portions of peak hour trains.

I'm guessing there is a good reason why things are as they are, relating to driver and stock diagramming?
 
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swt_passenger

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I'd have tended towards the standard class only 159 being an error. Having said that, now I've looked the current timetable has quite a few 'S' indicators on various Hampshire locals, even some running from Basingstoke or Portsmouth, so maybe it is intentional after all?

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/ptt19[1].pdf

In any case no one seriously expects 456s to be used outside the planned areas, i.e. inner suburbans and Ascot - Guildford.

The 2200 and 2155 both form later down trains, the 0005 to Bournemouth and 0105 to Southampton respectively, so they both have to get to Waterloo. It's often been said that the down service out of Waterloo late at night is comparatively good compared to most other London termini, but the flip side is you have to have trains get there to do it.

So AFAICS there's always going to be a number of lightly loaded up trains at that time of night, and another reason is to get everything to it's morning start position.
 
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nw1

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OK that explains it, I thought it might be something to do with that.
Presumably you mean vice-versa, as the 2155 is a 450 and the 2200 is (I guess - not seen it) a 444 - and the 0005 is definitely a 444 and the 0105 ISTR a 450.
 

swt_passenger

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Presumably you mean vice-versa, as the 2155 is a 450 and the 2200 is (I guess - not seen it) a 444 - and the 0005 is definitely a 444 and the 0105 ISTR a 450.

Yes - I forgot the overtake at Eastleigh... :oops: I'll fix it to make sense...

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A related question - in the *morning* peak one of the Portsmouth-Fareham-Eastleigh-Waterloo services (0755) is shadowed just 10 minutes later by a Portsmouth-Basingstoke at 0805. I'm guessing the reason for this is that the 0755 is very busy, but there are insufficient electric units to strengthen it, so they run the 0805 as a relief using the same 159 which does the above evening workings.

Can answer this now perhaps, as I'm home with the timetable books... :D

It's not so much a relief, as a remnant of the all day Portsmouth/Brighton/Basingstoke/Reading service that ran until Dec 2007. As explained in previous threads, the morning peak up services ran from Portsmouth, and the evening peak down services ran to Portsmouth, which left gaps in the Brighton leg of the service.

Those peak direction extra trains are still running in the same paths they always did, when the main service ran all day. Comparison with the May 2007 timetable book shows all the current extra DMU operated peak extra trains on the Basingstoke - Portsmouth axis are equivalents to earlier trains. Just realised as well that the inter-peak up direction trains ran just ahead of the Waterloo service oddly enough, about 10 mins ahead all the way from Cosham to Basingstoke - you'd have to assume this was for pathing reasons and it was the only place it could be fitted into the overall mix of trains. What is significant here is that it shows that the 2 tph service between Fareham and Eastleigh actually ran 10 mins apart, so didn't really provide the useful 'half hourly' service people regularly claim...
 
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