Locomotives performing unusual tasks

[breadfan]

See http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/docsummary.php?docID=1184
for official report.
Brake problem came to light when the driver tried to slow for Preston station.

"At about 18.45 a football supporters charter train, formed of a two-car diesel multiple-unit, returning from Carlisle to Accrington failed to respond to a brake application and passed a signal at Danger on the approach to Preston Station. It continued through the station, passed two more signals at Danger before colliding violently with a stationary diesel-electric locomotive.

When the driver realised that the train was not responding to a brake application he warned the passengers in the leading car to move towards the rear one. Of the 115 passengers on the train 44 received injuries which required hospital treatment. Four passengers were detained in hospital but the others were released after treatment. Two of the detained passengers were discharged on 19th January, a third on 20th January and the fourth on 4th February.

The driver and relief driver of the locomotive realised that the train was going to collide with the locomotive and jumped clear. The driver, however, was drenched with diesel fuel oil from a tank that burst in the collision and he too required hospital treatment."

------------------------

That seems very brief for an official report.
I note it does not state where the driver realised there was a brake problem.
Could it be possible that the train did not have a danger signal until the approach to Preston? Would the driver need to use brakes after, say, Shap? And how did we know about it in Traveller's Fare a fair while before the 104 passed through, and not the crew of 47111?

 

[WestCountry]

That seems very brief for an official report.
I note it does not state where the driver realised there was a brake problem.

That's because it's the summary. You should hit the 'pdf' icon in the blue header bar to get the full report...

EDIT: According to the report, it was indeed the first attempted brake application since leaving Carlisle, although the brakes had been working from the same cab while moving around there ECS. (para. 21-23, p4).

EDIT2:

I take it the Class 104 handbrakes were not great?

"Mr Blakeley stayed in the cab and tried putting the unit into first gear to slow it down but did not think about applying the hand brake."

 

[Beveridges]

Locomotives performing unusual tasks

These are the most unusual out of what I have seen in real life (not on some youtube video):

1) Virgin HST Powercar hauling a single carriage

2) 47 + Single Mk1 + 1x HST Power Car

3) 60 hauling a Royal Mail train. Formation was 60 + 325 units + Vans.

4) Single Class 20 running light engine nose first on the mainline with some real powerful thrash

5) 92 hauling an MGR... Consisting of just two HAA's.

6) Five freds

7) Single car 142 unit shunting around a Depot always looks strange. Especially when the carriage has no windows, paint removed and doors taken out.

8) 08/09 swaps between depots... 08's/09's running on the mainline for 20+ miles during the night.

9) 37 hauling a large and very old Track Machine with loads of clag coming out of the Track Machine

10) A 37 on an MGR instead of the usual 60

11) A mainline Kettle move in an odd formation... Kettle + Mk1 + Kettle + Mk1.


There's probably loads more than this. I have to always think far back to think of unusual workings, as there are hardly any of them these days!!!

 

[jopsuk]

2) 47 + Single Mk1 + 1x HST Power Car

fairly common way to move an HST power car

5) 92 hauling an MGR... Consisting of just two HAA's.

given there's to my knowledge no MGR in 3rd rail land, it wasn't running an MGR train... they might be MGR wagons but MGR does not work with OHL locomotives

11) A mainline Kettle move in an odd formation... Kettle + Mk1 + Kettle + Mk1.

They're the support coaches- containing spares, crew facilities etc for the steam locomotive. Every loco has it's own. And if possible, they'll move more than one at once.

 

[Genocide]

That seems very brief for an official report.
I note it does not state where the driver realised there was a brake problem.
Could it be possible that the train did not have a danger signal until the approach to Preston? Would the driver need to use brakes after, say, Shap? And how did we know about it in Traveller's Fare a fair while before the 104 passed through, and not the crew of 47111?[/QUOTE]

I'd suggest that your memory may be playing tricks on you.

From the North end of Broughton loop to the M55 bridge is uphill against Southbound trains, so driver would have had power on. If he took power off, he'd be stopped roughly by what we used to call Mill loop.

Depending on the driver, your brake point was somewhere around the A583 bridge for a unit. That'd give about 2 minutes max to the top end of platform 3. I used to use the cement plant as a guide.

Rolling downhill from the PSB - with no means of communicating from the train - a unit would pass the central point of platform 3 at around 135 seconds from driver realising he had no control.

 

[theageofthetra]

I remember reading in an old book of my dads of the time a Nelson was failed on a heavy Southampton boat train somewhere enroute and an ancient and shortly due to meet its maker T9 station pilot was drafted in to ensure the train connected with the departing liner. The old girl not only made the sailing but arrived with virtually every bearing in a liquid state. I bet there were plenty of odd ones in steams twilight years.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Thinking about it I remember a book I read as a kid about the memories of workers on old colonial railways and one story stuck in the memory of a railway in possibly Burma(?) that if its steam loco failed would draft in a couple of logging elephants to haul the train up a slope after which it would run under gravity. Would love to remember what that book was called!

 

[D7666]

MGR does not work with OHL locomotives

Sorry ?

What do you mean by "mgr does not work with ohl locomotives".

MGR itself is at the terminal unloading plant, what happens on the way is irrelevant.



There used to be a dozen daily MGR trains of HAA over Woodhead with 76s - to Fiddlers Ferry.

There used to be HAA trains to Tring Cutting, usually worked by 81-85.

There were workings of HAA off the Nuneaton Coventry line into Coventry with 25s and ACL forward, indeed most of those I saw actually were 87s, so I guess they were booked 87s. I think these at that time were also going to Fiddlers Ferry but not sure. IIRC they were a weekly Q path.


OK we did not and do not have any MGR loading or unloading points that are OLE wired, but
(1) that has zilch to do with whether or not any loco *can* work an MGR train on the way and hand over to a suitable equipped machine and
(2) there is no reason why an MGR terminal could not be OLE wired, unlike some other forms on unloader the wagons are not tippled or inverted but remain upright and in line.


OLE electric train arounds unloading loops are not unknown in UK .... there is quite a big one in eastern Kent .....

--
Nick

 

[Beveridges]

MGRs used to be 92 hauled between Warrington and Carlisle until EWS took over and decided that they should be 66 hauled throughout!

The two wagon MGR was a wagon positioning move

 

[breadfan]

I'd suggest that your memory may be playing tricks on you.

It seemed to work OK by recalling it was platform 3, not 4, that the unit passed through. Also that 47111 had not come off Ladywell but was heading North into Preston (the official reports state it had come off Springs Branch).

If it is my memory failing (witnessing a train crash, especially one you know is about to happen, is not the kind of thing you forget in a hurry though), it is odd that another enthusiast who was there that evening has the same memory failure.

 

[Genocide]

It seemed to work OK by recalling it was platform 3, not 4, that the unit passed through. Also that 47111 had not come off Ladywell but was heading North into Preston (the official reports state it had come off Springs Branch).

If it is my memory failing (witnessing a train crash, especially one you know is about to happen, is not the kind of thing you forget in a hurry though), it is odd that another enthusiast who was there that evening has the same memory failure.

I think the point here is - how could you have known that this was going to happen?

I'm not doubting that you were there. My understanding about 47111 came from some bashers who knew that it was coming into position. 47483 was failed.

How far in advance of the event did you know there was going to be a runaway incident?

 

[breadfan]

That's not quite how it happened. Driver didn't realise he'd no brake until attempting to drop to mandatory 35 through Preston. Questions have been raised about drivers concentration levels due to possible unauthorised individuals in cab.

474xx had failed in 3B - booked for a following splitter - 47111 was brought out of Ladywell to drop back into 3/4B awaiting the splitter and was on the bridge waiting for the dolly when the 104 over-ran the home on 4 and hit it.

It is quite ironic that you correct me on these things, with incorrect information, then suggest my memory is failing.

I think the point here is - how could you have known that this was going to happen?

I'm not doubting that you were there. My understanding about 47111 came from some bashers who knew that it was coming into position. 47483 was failed.

How far in advance of the event did you know there was going to be a runaway incident?

We knew far enough in advance to have time to get out of the buffet and to near the bottom of the concourse and await it passing through. Also worth noting is that someone (a Royal Mail employee on the station) had time to get the news and come and tell us. So yes, how could we have known? I don't know an easy answer to that. Feel free to make something up though.

 

[chorleyjeff]

It is quite ironic that you correct me on these things, with incorrect information, then suggest my memory is failing.



We knew far enough in advance to have time to get out of the buffet and to near the bottom of the concourse and await it passing through. Also worth noting is that someone (a Royal Mail employee on the station) had time to get the news and come and tell us. So yes, how could we have known? I don't know an easy answer to that. Feel free to make something up though.

Try reading the accident report.
Then. Are you suggesting the report is incorrect?
Could anyone on the train have phoned someone who then told a Royal Mail employee who then took the time out to tell you that the DMU brakes had failed approaching Preston? Why wasn't the signaler given notice that the DMU brakes would fail?
If there had been so much notice of the brake failure why not clear the through line and allow the DMU to come to a halt by application of the hand brake or brakes?
Cheers
Jeff

 

[breadfan]

I've read the accident report. It's interesting reading though I wouldn't claim to understand the more technical aspects.

This was before the times of mobile phones. On train phones were about then but not on Class 104s

It is indeed odd that we knew what was going on, but, hey, we did. It is perplexing me.

I've known accident reports in the workplace where the reports do not match what actually happened. Not that I'm saying that is the case here. Just saying.

 

[chorleyjeff]

Hi people!

Apologies if this has already been discussed, I'm fairly new here :P

Saw the following videos yesterday so thought I'd share them and see if anyone else has seen or taken any videos, photographs, or actually witnessed other similar situations where locomotives perform tasks which you wouldn't associate with them:

Class 91 hauling a HST:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odDwpfW44-U&list=PLCC2B4EA029E03FB4

Class 43 hauling a Mk 1 vehicle (barrier car maybe?):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDFhlxWZN3s

Class 43 hauling an 8*Mk 3 rake on its own:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OniwKY8dAoU&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs

A1 pacific attached to Bamber Bridge to Bradford coal empties. But removed by Control because fears of possible RA restrictions.
Had arrived at Lostock Hall on ECS and the problem was how to get it back to LNE Region territory.
Jeff
Jeff
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hi people!

Apologies if this has already been discussed, I'm fairly new here :P

Saw the following videos yesterday so thought I'd share them and see if anyone else has seen or taken any videos, photographs, or actually witnessed other similar situations where locomotives perform tasks which you wouldn't associate with them:

Class 91 hauling a HST:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=odDwpfW44-U&list=PLCC2B4EA029E03FB4

Class 43 hauling a Mk 1 vehicle (barrier car maybe?):



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jDFhlxWZN3s


Ex LNWR 0-8-0 taking a coach with pasengers down the dock branch from Preston.
Jeff

Class 43 hauling an 8*Mk 3 rake on its own:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OniwKY8dAoU&feature=em-subs_digest-vrecs

Ex LNWR 0-8-0 taking a coach with pasengers down the dock branch from Preston.
Jeff