Stations that should be more important than they are?

[TBY-Paul]

There are many threads about stations, and it got me thinking about stations that used to be Grand and Important, that have lost there status and kudos for many varied reasons.

Locally to me, has got to be Stockton(on-Tees). Even Grand Central didn't think it warranted a stop and chose Eaglescliffe instead.

I vaguely remember back in the late 60's, early 70's it was still classed as an "Inter-city" station, with large station buildings and an arched roof, now its just a couple of bus shelters and a foot bridge.
It's coming up to the bi-centenary of the Stockton to Darlington railway (1825-2025). It really should be more important than it is. (hands up all those who have had to Google to find out where it is?)
I still haven't forgiven the local council for not putting a bid in for NRM Locomotion , and allowing it to go to Shildon. There was plenty of derelict land besides the world's first ever booking office (still standing), that would of allowed the Booking Office Building to be incorporated into a Museum site. The nearest the council has got to recognising the towns railway history is to name a new road near the site "1825 Way". ( I feel a rant coming on, so I'll stop now).

http://www.flickr.com/photos/bolckow/sets/72157615748863405/
(not my website)

 

[swcovas]

There are many threads about stations, and it got me thinking about stations that used to be Grand and Important, that have lost there status and kudos for many varied reasons.

Locally to me, has got to be Stockton(on-Tees). Even Grand Central didn't think it warranted a stop and chose Eaglescliffe instead.

I vaguely remember back in the late 60's, early 70's it was still classed as an "Inter-city" station, with large station buildings and an arched roof, now its just a couple of bus shelters and a foot bridge.

I don't know Stockton at all but the above comments made me curious bearing in mind the towns historical railway significance. Looking at a few pictures on the web it does seem a bit of a pale shadow but what struck me as even stranger was how a town of some 80,000 people generates such low passenger numbers of about 70,000?

 

[yorkie]

Stockton and Eaglescliffe had similar passenger numbers until around the time Grand Central operations commenced.

In 2006-07 the figures were: Eaglescliffe 65,522 and Stockton 63,352. There are not sufficient passenger numbers, and the distances between them too small, to justify a call at both in my opinion.

Since 2007, Eaglescliffe has doubled in patronage, probably mostly due to Grand Central growing the market, while Stockton has only increased marginally.

Are you suggesting that London trains should call at both, or should call at Stockton instead of Eaglescliffe?

I would argue Eaglescliffe is more useful for several reasons, including the cross & same platform interchange it offers for people travelling from many stations in Teeside.

If you took away the Eaglescliffe call, journeys from places on the Saltburn line (e.g. Redcar), would involve TWO changes of train to get to London.

 

[swcovas]

Stockton and Eaglescliffe had similar passenger numbers until around the time Grand Central operations commenced.

In 2006-07 the figures were: Eaglescliffe 65,522 and Stockton 63,352. There are not sufficient passenger numbers, and the distances between them too small, to justify a call at both in my opinion.

Since 2007, Eaglescliffe has doubled in patronage, probably mostly due to Grand Central growing the market, while Stockton has only increased marginally.

Are you suggesting that London trains should call at both, or should call at Stockton instead of Eaglescliffe?

I would argue Eaglescliffe is more useful for several reasons, including the cross & same platform interchange it offers for people travelling from many stations in Teeside.

If you took away the Eaglescliffe call, journeys from places on the Saltburn line (e.g. Redcar), would involve TWO changes of train to get to London.

Sorry, no I wasn't suggesting anything and not knowing the geography of the area I was just was just curious as to why a town of that size had what seems to me a relatively low footfall. Looking at the map I can understand what you say about Eaglescliffe but dare I say it I am still surprised at the low footfall for Stockton considering its population.

 

[cuccir]

It should be noted that Stockton station isn't the main station in Stockton! Thornaby station is in Stockton borough, and is very near the River Tees - which separates Stockton and Thornaby - making it only a 15 minute walk from Stockton High Street. Due to its location on the Middlesbrough-Darlington line has a much better service to both than Stockton station does. It's also very close to the Durham University campus.

Thornaby has 0.5million passengers a year, which explains why Stockton is so low. It's also only a 5 minute journey with 2 trains an hour from Eaglescliffe , which I'm sure will have influenced Grand Central's decision to stop at Eaglescliffe!

 

[swcovas]

It should be noted that Stockton station isn't the main station in Stockton! Thornaby station is in Stockton borough, and is very near the River Tees - which separates Stockton and Thornaby - making it only a 15 minute walk from Stockton High Street. Due to its location on the Middlesbrough-Darlington line has a much better service to both than Stockton station does. It's also very close to the Durham University campus.

Thornaby has 0.5million passengers a year, which explains why Stockton is so low. It's also only a 5 minute journey with 2 trains an hour from Eaglescliffe , which I'm sure will have influenced Grand Central's decision to stop at Eaglescliffe!

Ok, that explains it. I had noted that Thornaby had MUCH higher footfall. Thanks!

 

[yorkie]

Sorry, no I wasn't suggesting anything and not knowing the geography of the area I was just was just curious as to why a town of that size had what seems to me a relatively low footfall. Looking at the map I can understand what you say about Eaglescliffe but dare I say it I am still surprised at the low footfall for Stockton considering its population.

Ah, sorry I misunderstood what you were asking, which was more about people not using it.

I would guess it's because it's not that central, and if you're going to have a bit of a walk or a car/bus journey to get to the station, then you may as well go to Thornaby which has a very good service as it's on the Saltburn-Darlington route as well as the TransPennine route towards York, Leeds & Manchester.

But still, despite all that, I would have expected higher passenger figures.

 

[Proud Salopian]

Shrewsbury has suffered massively with the long-distance mainlines all running via Crewe.

It has the potential to be a lot more important once more. Perhaps with HS2 and an electrified Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton line, it would then be the terminus of a high-capacity London-WCML-West Midlands-Telford-Shrewsbury service? Got quite a while to wait before that (could) happen..

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Shrewsbury has suffered massively with the long-distance mainlines all running via Crewe.

It has the potential to be a lot more important once more. Perhaps with HS2 and an electrified Shrewsbury-Wolverhampton line, it would then be the terminus of a high-capacity London-WCML-West Midlands-Telford-Shrewsbury service? Got quite a while to wait before that (could) happen..

To me that would have been a nice and logical add-on in the 1980s. Through London trains with no loco change like they used to do. Still would like to see it done as an in-fill.

 

[142094]

If you took away the Eaglescliffe call, journeys from places on the Saltburn line (e.g. Redcar), would involve TWO changes of train to get to London.

Just about all trains from Saltburn go to Darlington, so only one change.

 

[edwin_m]

Due to early railway politics Normanton became a big railway junction with a large station and various other facilities, now reduced to an unstaffed halt.

I think it's been tidied up a bit now, but Blackpool South used to have the remains of a large station (with an even larger one not far away) with a Pacer on a siding serving the one surviving bit of platform.

In the early 80s the remains of Manors station were still extensive with hardly any trains calling there.

Rochdale station has a second island of similar size gently decaying in the undergrowth, although there is some prospect of once face being reopened as part of Northern Hub.

Quite a lot of trackless platforms at Crewe too.

 

[Dunc108]

Id have to add Windermere, given its status as a major tourist railhead bringing in large volumes of passengers; theres often been rumours of electrification, and even a passing loop to provide a more frequent service... the existing minimalist, single track terminus at Windermere can only handle so much in its current form. And with TPE services to Scotland set to grow, it makes the future of the surviving long distance services even more precarious.

 

[TBY-Paul]

Stockton and Eaglescliffe had similar passenger numbers until around the time Grand Central operations commenced.

In 2006-07 the figures were: Eaglescliffe 65,522 and Stockton 63,352. There are not sufficient passenger numbers, and the distances between them too small, to justify a call at both in my opinion.

Since 2007, Eaglescliffe has doubled in patronage, probably mostly due to Grand Central growing the market, while Stockton has only increased marginally.

Are you suggesting that London trains should call at both, or should call at Stockton instead of Eaglescliffe?

I would argue Eaglescliffe is more useful for several reasons, including the cross & same platform interchange it offers for people travelling from many stations in Teeside.

If you took away the Eaglescliffe call, journeys from places on the Saltburn line (e.g. Redcar), would involve TWO changes of train to get to London.

Having used Grand Central from Eaglescliffe, its quite obvious it not used as an interchange station, most passengers arrive by car, very, very few change trains. The catchment area for Eaglescliffe tends to be Eaglescliffe, Thornaby, Ingelby Barwick, Stockton, Yarm. It's not the location/conections that makes the service popular, it's the service it's self. So I don't think it would have made much difference if Grand Central had chosen Stockton over Eaglescliffe.
As you have pointed out there not much distance between Stockton and Eaglescliffe, less than 3 miles.

Stockton's poor footfall is down to it's poor links. Stockton is OK if you want to travel north along the Durham coast, or into Middlesbrough. Oh, and during the summer you can get to Whitby on a weekend. Anything else, then don't both using Stockton station.


In 1825 you could get a train from Stockton to Darlington, in 2013 it involves a change, apart from a token 2 trains each way on Sunday's.


If we look at weekday services to London, Pre and post Grand Central they were something like:-

Hartlepool-King's Cross

Pre GC:- HPL-TBY-DAR/NTR/YRK-KGX (2 Changes)

Now :- HPL-KGX (0 Changes)

Stockton- King's Cross

Pre GC :- STK-TBY-DAR/NTR/YRK-KGX (2 Changes)

Now STK-TBY-EAG/DAR-KGX (Still 2 Changes)

Thornaby- King's Cross

Pre GC:- TBY-DAR/NTL/YRK-KGX (1 Change)

Now:- TBY- EAG/DAR/NTR/YRK-KGX (Still 1 Change)

Middlesbrough- Kings Cross

Pre GC - MBR-DAR/NTR/YRK-KGX (1 Change)

Now MBR-EAG/NTR/YRK/DAR-KGX (still 1 Change)

Saltburn (same for Redcar, Longbeck, Saltburn, Marske, Allens West & Dinsdale)-King's Cross

Pre GC:- SLB- DAR-KGX (1 Change)

Now SLB-EAG/DAR-KGX (Still 1 Change)

So as you can see Hartlepool has seen the biggest benefit 2 changes down to 0, Eagescliffe has gone from 1 change to 0, all Stations all in the Tees Valley still need 1 change the only difference being DAR or EAG, and most still go to DAR due to frequency at DAR.

And Stockton (if you chose to use it) well, it still needs 2, it doesn't matter if to DAR or EAG.

Given Stockton's historical connections to Railways, its not really good enough.


I was reading a document a few weeks ago, I think it was the CP6 plan, and 1of the options to increase capacity between Northallerton and Newcastle, was to send 1 tph up through Eaglescliffe/Stockton and on to the Stillington route to Ferryhill and then use the Leamside link.

Now someone in Stockton council should be looking at that as an opportunity to get Stockton reconnected to the main line.

 

[CMS]

Wembley Central - a dilapidated building that can fit about 6 coaches on the WCML platforms and gets 1 fast tph each way, which is chronically overcrowded. Considering the location to the national stadium, arena and with the potential to be a significant hub for NW London transport, WCML pathing should not prevent the development of the station.

 

[AlexS]

Wellington (Salop)? Large town station, significantly reduced in stature when Telford Central was opened. Still got the large buildings, of which only the tiny booking office which is open part time is in real railway use (there's a cafe as well I suppose!).

 

[SeanG]

Wakefield Kirkgate seems that it used to be much more important than it is now.
As does Hellifield

 

[jb]

Pontypool Road (as was) was once much more important than it now is.

 

[Eagle]

Wellington (Salop)? Large town station, significantly reduced in stature when Telford Central was opened. Still got the large buildings, of which only the tiny booking office which is open part time is in real railway use (there's a cafe as well I suppose!).

On a similar note, Bletchley lost status when MKC was built just to the north (although unlike Wellington, it still remains a junction station so there's some importance there).

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Wellington (Salop)? Large town station, significantly reduced in stature when Telford Central was opened. Still got the large buildings, of which only the tiny booking office which is open part time is in real railway use (there's a cafe as well I suppose!).

I'm surprised Wellington was resignalled with its through lines retained.
Anywhere else at least one of these would have been removed.
There's next to no through traffic.

 

[Andrewlong]

Worcester Shrub Hill has a fairly grand station with little going on plus its a fair distance from the centre of the city. Foregate is far more central but is pokey and located on top of a bridge.

 

[D365]

On a similar note, Bletchley lost status when MKC was built just to the north (although unlike Wellington, it still remains a junction station so there's some importance there).

Might it regain some of its importance with the advent of EWR as well as associated development of the area?

 

[quarella]

I'm surprised Wellington was resignalled with its through lines retained.
Anywhere else at least one of these would have been removed.
There's next to no through traffic.

But so useful when something fails in the platform.

 

[Howardh]

Id have to add Windermere, given its status as a major tourist railhead bringing in large volumes of passengers; theres often been rumours of electrification, and even a passing loop to provide a more frequent service... the existing minimalist, single track terminus at Windermere can only handle so much in its current form. And with TPE services to Scotland set to grow, it makes the future of the surviving long distance services even more precarious.

Often wondered about the timetabling r/e Windermere. Some intercity trains stop at Oxenholme and there is a long wait for a connection to Windermere (and back). Rather than electrifying and/or improving the track, I'd appreciate a simple regular Oxenholme/Windermere shuttle every half-hour (how long does a stopping journey take - 15 mins??), at least during the tourist seasons.

Blackpool North - once on the intercity lines; now a simple end-of-line terminus.

Carnforth - didn't that used to be really busy??

 

[Eagle]

But so useful when something fails in the platform.

By that argument all stations should have through lines.

 

[radamfi]

In some towns, due to railway geography, the most important railway station is at the edge of the town and the town centre railway station is less important. For example:

Three Bridges/Crawley
Shenfield/Brentwood
Stourbridge Junction/Stourbridge Town

For similar reasons, many railway enthusiasts think that Stalybridge is a bigger place than Ashton-under-Lyne and that Rochdale is significantly more important than Oldham.

 

[Darren R]

Mention of Bletchley made me think of the similar fate Willesden Junction suffered. The days of WCML trains calling there to allow passengers to change for trains to Broad Street are long gone!

 

[Bevan Price]

1. Stockton used to have hourly trains to Darlington, but the service was steadily run down and allowed to decline.

2. St. Helens Junction (population over 100,000) used to have hourly Trans Pennine services to Leeds & beyond . BR "incompetence" (in my opinion*** led to decline and the services were rerouted via Warrington Central.

*** - Over the years, the service was messed about, including for a while, sending some of the busiest services non-stop between Liverpool & Manchester. Passengers deserted the line in droves, and most failed to return when the stops were restored.

3. St. Helens Central (formerly Shaw St.) used to have a few stops each day on Liverpool - Scotland services. (For a few years, the stops were at St. Helens Junction, not Central). It remains to be seen if St. Helens ever regains services to Scotland after electrification...

 

[RichmondCommu]

Mention of Bletchley made me think of the similar fate Willesden Junction suffered. The days of WCML trains calling there to allow passengers to change for trains to Broad Street are long gone!

Which is a real pity as with the increased service levels on the NLL it would have been a very useful interchange station.

 

[tbtc]

If the question is "where should be more important than it currently is" (rather than "where used to be important") then I'd suggest Rotherham as a local example - it's a big town but only has three trains an hour in each direction, virtually no First Class/ express service (beyond a token TPE evening service when the equivalent Northern route doesn't run), not a great long distance service (the Scunthorpe - Lincoln route is a long journey, but I'm talking about links to places like Manchester)...

...the TramTrain will improve local connections to Sheffield, but not the points mentioned above.

 

[YorkshireBear]

Rotherham has been screwed over by its inadequate infrastructure. Masbrough can't really be opened because it would cause capacity problems... and Central has the single line Chord blocking everything.

I struggle to come up with anything that could even come close to helping....

The only thing i can see helping would be to build a chord linking the main lines to the barrow hill loop lines before the station so that stopping trains would be looped there. Stopping services would only be long distance Northern services and TPE, XC continue to not stop. Morning and Evening London trains could stop. That is the only workable idea that i can think of.