A day in Paris: what's worth seeing?

[NSEFAN]

I'm considering spending a day in Paris before the end of summer, and I'm trying to decide what to do.

I'm interested in seeing loco hauled trains, especially push-pull sets which I believe are still used in France. I'm also interested in freight.

Apart from the main terminals, are there any good spots to hang out? Does Paris have its own equivalent of Clapham Junction?

 

[87015]

You'll need more than a day to do it justice, if you are more interested in spotting/photting than bashing then just working through the terminals will probably do although be aware of the relatively low frequency of many Intercity routes so peak times are when they really come alive.

I posted this on another thread about hauled turns in the 'Travelcard area' http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1516420&postcount=7

And my photos are here, not all from Paris area but the majority, captions should show train or location info on most which can be looked up, or just ask for further info http://87015aewn.wordpress.com/category/euro-nedding/france/

 

[starrymarkb]

Oh and be advised Photography is not permitted on the Metro and IIRC the RER...

 

[MK Tom]

Should be on the RER, I certainly had no trouble there. But it is not allowed on the Metro.

RER lines C, D and E are operated by SNCF, unlike A and B which are RATP. Neverthless, I had no trouble snapping at any of them.

I'd seriously advise caution when going to any outlying stations. Paris is a concentric city; the inner area is very different to the suburbs, many of which have severe social problems and can be unsafe to walk around. Anywhere you want to go spotting, check on Google Earth or Bing Maps or whatever first, have a good look around and make sure you're happy with it.

 

[NSEFAN]

Thankyou to everyone for the swift responses!

I will be traveling with a friend who lives in Paris, so we will hopefully avoid the dodgy areas (or not be there for very long!). Sadly I can only spend one day in the city but I will hopefully still see plenty of interesting workings.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Certainly do not hang around the Gare du Nord area - some very unsavoury characters and the social mix on the RER can be offputting (though the Metro feels a lot a better) - a look at the trains at Montparnasse and Eat can be good. Cannot beat the open air sections of the Metro for a good ride - especially on the south side.

 

[MK Tom]

Not really relevant to your question but if you go to Montparnasse, check out the view from the top of the tower there. It's the only place where you can get a view of Paris without Tour Montparnasse in it.

BTW loco haulage is, as you've probably figured, most prominent on Intercites services. The more of those, the more loco-haulage.

 

[CC 72100]

Certainly do not hang around the Gare du Nord area - some very unsavoury characters and the social mix on the RER can be offputting (though the Metro feels a lot a better) - a look at the trains at Montparnasse and Eat can be good. Cannot beat the open air sections of the Metro for a good ride - especially on the south side.

Agreed. Don't like Gare du Nord area one bit, nor that bit just to the North of it although outside the city walls itself (St Denis).

The 72100s out of Est seem quite appealing to the enthusiast's eye.

 

[Scot_in_korea]

I love going to the top of Tour Montparnasse. There is something soothing about watching the approach into Gare Montparnasse. From the top of Tour Montparnasse you can see down the track for miles and see several trains entering and exiting the station and the city.

 

[Gordon]

Close to Paris, try Pantin and Noisy le Sec platforms for trains out of Gare de l'Est.
I have not had too much trouble doing this.

You might feel 'safer' going out to outer suburban stations in the country on each orbital line out of Paris. Any station on the line south from Austerlitz south of the Valenton area will get you the freight on that line as well as all the hauled passenger (although this may be more sensitive since the Bretigny incident).

Stations such as Esbly on the Paris - Strasbourg line will get you freight and hauled passneger on that line.

 

[MK Tom]

Do you ever get the diesels that work the lines between Bolougne and Abbeville down as far as Paris? I know that service runs to Paris but it might change locos at Amiens.

I would agree with comments that going out into the country is often a better idea.

Saint-Denis is really the Mosside of Paris. Never been to Noisy though... I'm sure Paris must have some nice suburbs. Thing I find in most French cities is a beautiful centre with generally mucky, run-down areas around it. Almost the opposite of the British norm.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Do you ever get the diesels that work the lines between Bolougne and Abbeville down as far as Paris? I know that service runs to Paris but it might change locos at Amiens.

Even as far back as the early 1980's locos on that service were changed at Amiens. Not long after the aircon went off an electric loco would pass by ready to take the train on to Paris.

I would agree with comments that going out into the country is often a better idea.

Saint-Denis is really the Mosside of Paris. Never been to Noisy though... I'm sure Paris must have some nice suburbs. Thing I find in most French cities is a beautiful centre with generally mucky, run-down areas around it. Almost the opposite of the British norm.

Have you ever been to Croydon?

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Have you ever been to Croydon?

ROFL ! Wheres the like button!

 

[MK Tom]

Have you ever been to Croydon?

Croydon's a little different because it functions in many respects as a city in its own right. There are nice areas and bad areas within Croydon, and although it very much is a suburb of greater London, it's so big and defined that it can't be treated as one suburb of the larger whole like Barnet or Brixton or Highgate can. My point was really that French cities tend to have a very predictable ring structure in terms of what areas are pleasant and what areas aren't.

BTW, I took the below picture at Gare du Nord. I'm guessing this is the AC version of this type, and there are dual voltage and DC versions too... is this the oldest loco class still in service in France?

 

[Gordon]

Even as far back as the early 1980's locos on that service were changed at Amiens.

For 1980s read 1960s. As soon as Paris – Amiens – (Lille) was electrified in 1959, the preferred traction on Amiens – Paris was electric with locos swapped at Amiens.

You may be confusing the appearance of diesels with the 67400 that haul some trains on the Laon and (at weekends) Le Tréport lines. In this case the diesels run into Gare du Nord.


I had no problems at a variety of Paris suburban stations between 2007 and 2012, including St Denis, Pantin, Bondy and Le Bourget, some of which might be considered ‘problem’ boroughs, though as has been suggested, no real difference to photting at some London suburban locations.
June 2012:
http://gwizz.zenfolio.com/p946484934
2009, including stints at Bondy and Le Bourget.
http://gwizz.zenfolio.com/long100

Note that Le Bourget is OK for the Paris – Laon diesel trains.
http://gwizz.zenfolio.com/long100/h2567c16c#h2567c16c

BTW, I took the below picture at Gare du Nord. I'm guessing this is the AC version of this type, and there are dual voltage and DC versions too... is this the oldest loco class still in service in France?

No. Because there are some 63500 diesels dating from 1956 still in service.
Not quite the oldest electrics either, 88501 (ex 8501) is slightly older but now modified gearing and reduced to shunting duties). 17000 certainly the oldest class of locos still in daily passenger use – and intensively at that. Oldest in service is 17002, in service date 3/7/65

You are right about the three versions, all known as Danseuses because they dance around on the track – much to the annoyance of drivers. By the way: 17000 = ac only. 8500 = dc only. 25500 = dual system. There is method behind the 1950s SNCF numbering system. Formula: ac class number + dc class number = dual system class number.





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[MK Tom]

That's interesting. I still can't figure out any method to the numbering itself though, beyond the obvious 'bb' and 'cc' for bo-bo and co-co and 'z' for multiple units.

 

[RichmondCommu]

For 1980s read 1960s. As soon as Paris – Amiens – (Lille) was electrified in 1959, the preferred traction on Amiens – Paris was electric with locos swapped at Amiens.

You may be confusing the appearance of diesels with the 67400 that haul some trains on the Laon and (at weekends) Le Tréport lines. In this case the diesels run into Gare du Nord.

In all fairness my inter-rail adventures only started in the early 1980's when I was at Uni. The two things that stood out were the Corail stock and the fact that every station retained freight facilities. The only journeys I made were from Calais and Boulogne. I also forgot to mention the gas turbine units. I dare say they are long gone!

 

[Gordon]

In all fairness my inter-rail adventures only started in the early 1980's when I was at Uni. The two things that stood out were the Corail stock and the fact that every station retained freight facilities. The only journeys I made were from Calais and Boulogne. I also forgot to mention the gas turbine units. I dare say they are long gone!

My inter railing only started in the late 1970s although I had been watching trains since the early 1960s thanks to coming from a (vaguely famous) family of transport enthusiasts

The RTG Turbotrains were withdrawn in 2004
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Sorry I haven't got time right now to offer a translation, but the full numbering story is here:

http://www.trains-europe.fr/sncf/numerotation.htm
http://ec64.pagesperso-orange.fr/NUMERO.htm


For Locos, the essential split currently used for modern traction is a variant on the system developed on creation of SNCF in 1938:

1000 - 9999 = dc electric loco
10000 - 19999 = ac electric loco
20000 - 29999 = bi-current loco
30000 - 39999 = tri-current loco
40000 - 49999 = quadri-current loco
50000 - 59999 = bi-current EMU

60000 - 79999 = diesel
80000 - 89999 = Previously special use, since 2004 bimode motive power mainly the BiBi E/DMUs

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That's interesting. I still can't figure out any method to the numbering itself though, beyond the obvious 'bb' and 'cc' for bo-bo and co-co and 'z' for multiple units.

Not quite; Z is EMUs.

DMUs are X.

Bi-modes are officially B and carry this in front of the unit number, but I have seen them carrying ZX as well..... :roll:

 

[Gordon]

.


Not forgetting Y for diesel shunter, and the gas turbine Turbotrain (ETG and RTG) power cars were prefixed T. Also R for Remorque (unpowered trailer – ZR EMU trailer or XR DMU trailer)

It was more necessary to quote the letter prefixes in the past than today, as SNCF has tried to move away from duplicating number series.

There aren’t many pure duplicating class designations any more, but in the 1950s – 80s period there were three classes of ‘7100’ – the Y7100 class shunter, the Z7100 class EMU and the CC7100 class main line electric.

Also, the French system has traditionally caused confusion when loco classes run to more than 100 examples, for example the class BB7200 which runs up to number 7440.

Thus as a legacy of the old ways, to this day on SNCF still has on its books Y7305 (a Y7100 class shunter), BB7305 (a BB 7200 class electric) and Z7305 (a Z2 EMU).


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