Future of the Intercity 125s

[AndyLandy]

I believe the 2020 deadline for the rail industry will be met.

It occurs to me that there's also a huge element of what's required to meet the new accessibility legislation. We talk of retrofitting power doors to HST trailers, but does the legislation require to you retrofit every carriage door. Or could you make one vehicle accessible, and leave the rest alone? Does the legislation even say anything about power doors. Could you simply provide a member of staff who opens and closes a dedicated door at every station and puts out a ramp? That might be more expensive as a long-term fix, but if you needed to keep some HST sets going for an extra 6-12 months, it might well be a far more cost-effective solution.

 

[jopsuk]

Accesibility isn't just about wheelchairs. I've several times had to ask "able bodied" people to move aside so i could open the door- they were struggling as they were too short to reach the handle. HST/Mark 3 doors are also terrible for the visually impaired.

 

[AndyLandy]

Accesibility isn't just about wheelchairs. I've several times had to ask "able bodied" people to move aside so i could open the door- they were struggling as they were too short to reach the handle. HST/Mark 3 doors are also terrible for the visually impaired.

Quite. I'm certainly not disputing that fact. But my question still stands. "What's the minimum required to be compliant with the legislation?" The reason why I (and presumably most other people) almost always raise the issues wheelchair accessibility is because they're probably the most comprehensive requirements to meet. Wide doors, with easy access push buttons for power opening, and automatic ramps also happen to make it easier for able-bodied short people to open them.

Yes, there are other requirements, like fitting audio/visual PIS to all carriages, providing Braille on the door controls, but all of this costs pocket change compared to rebuilding carriages with slam doors to have power-operated ones instead.

 

[RobShipway]

Quite. I'm certainly not disputing that fact. But my question still stands. "What's the minimum required to be compliant with the legislation?" The reason why I (and presumably most other people) almost always raise the issues wheelchair accessibility is because they're probably the most comprehensive requirements to meet. Wide doors, with easy access push buttons for power opening, and automatic ramps also happen to make it easier for able-bodied short people to open them.

Yes, there are other requirements, like fitting audio/visual PIS to all carriages, providing Braille on the door controls, but all of this costs pocket change compared to rebuilding carriages with slam doors to have power-operated ones instead.

You have also got the fact that the gangway within the carriage if the disbaled space is not near the disabled toilet should be wide enough to fit a wheelchair through the passageway.

I think there is also changes to windows needed in the Wheelchair access spaces so that those in a Wheelchair can view out of the window, but I am properly not correct on that point.

 

[jon0844]

We should be proud of what we've achieved in terms of accessibility in the UK. We're by no means perfect, but we're moving the right way and most people understand the importance of it (even if we do get people moaning on here from time to time about it being a waste of money, how announcements for the blind are annoying etc).

Go abroad, and that includes just going around the EU, and it's clear we're a LONG way ahead of some. Many buildings are not accessible at all, let alone public transport.

Whoever came up with the idea to legislate and set deadlines did a good job, or else we'd have just bumbled along and got nowhere. We cannot let these deadlines slip - when set they were ages away, and if anyone got complacent and did bugger all in terms of planning, more fool them.

 

[transmanche]

There's some information on the DfT website about the 2020 deadline:

While an accessible rail fleet will be achieved by 1 January 2020, it is likely that a small number of trains will not fully comply with the PRM TSI or RVAR by that time. It’s inevitable that some exemptions will remain necessary and we are working with the rail industry and DPTAC [Disabled Persons Transport Advisory Committee] to keep these to a minimum.

It also gives a list of compliant rail vehicles and information about "the department's view on which areas of particular heavy rail fleets need to be made more accessible to allow the use of the units beyond the legal deadline of 1 January 2020".

Of particular relevance to this thread is that on MkIII carriages the force needed to open the droplight windows is excessive (and hence they are not compliant).

 

[AndyLandy]

There's some information on the DfT website about the 2020 deadline:



It also gives a list of compliant rail vehicles and information about "the department's view on which areas of particular heavy rail fleets need to be made more accessible to allow the use of the units beyond the legal deadline of 1 January 2020".

Of particular relevance to this thread is that on MkIII carriages the force needed to open the droplight windows is excessive (and hence they are not compliant).

Thanks for sharing that, some very insightful points there. To me, the most salient point is that this suggests it may be possible to make Mk3 vehicles accessible without necessarily moving to power doors. If that's feasible, it will likely massively reduce the cost of overhaul, such that withdrawing HSTs by 2020 may be less pressing.

 

[transmanche]

To me, the most salient point is that this suggests it may be possible to make Mk3 vehicles accessible without necessarily moving to power doors. If that's feasible, it will likely massively reduce the cost of overhaul, such that withdrawing HSTs by 2020 may be less pressing.

True. Although with IEP coming into service from 2017/2018, some HSTs will be released from service to undergo a refurbishment. TOCs/ROSCOs may decide that gives them an opportunity to "do a Chiltern" on their MkIIIs, to extend their life well beyond 2020.

Or the DfT may give an exemption for a year or two until the remaining MkIII vehicles are replaced by IEPs/cascaded 22xs/new-build 110mph AC EMUs.