MK IIs North of Preston

[theboywho]

Some years ago, I recall an argument taking place between a young trainspotter and a driver. The trainspotter was adamant that MK IIs were banned north of Preston and the driver completely unaware of this.

From memory, some Intercity West Coast sets were almost entirely MK II (buffet aside) and others were entirely MK III.

Can anybody shed some light on the origins of this misunderstanding?

 

[yorkie]

Trainspotter vs driver? Do you even need to ask the question?

The trainspotter is wrong and I have absolutely no idea, as it's a totally bonkers thing to say.

 

[theboywho]

Of course. But what sparked the curiosity was the mixture of all MKIII vs all MKII sets in use and whether there was a more casual link, i.e MKIIIs used on longer distance services, etc.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Mk 2 stock certainly ran all the way to Glasgow almost to the very end of locomotive haulage on WCML services and certainly until the end on XC services!

Generally, however, the longer distance services were diagrammed for Mk 3 rakes while Mk 2 dominated the shorter runs ( Birmingham / Wolverhampton ); that is probably more a reflection of the Mk 3s being far superior and therefore more likely to be deployed on the trips where people would be spending more time on board.

 

[Flying Snail]

Yes total rubbish.

While most of the Euston-Glasgows were Mk3 sets it was not unknown for a Mk2 set to turn up and all the Cross Country loco hauled sets were Mk2.

Before voyagers all of the west coast xc runs were loco hauled.

 

[Manchester77]

Upon initial electrification 86s would haul mark IIs to Crewe where a 50 would take over and haul them to Glasgow. Once wires went north of Weaver Junction there was no locomotive change. There's a british transport film called the pain train which shows this run (and also how a few lost minutes here and there can create a big delay )

 

[tom1649]

Mk2s are still used on that route on the Caledonian Sleeper of course.

 

[ffm]

And West Coast Railway is based at Carnforth..........

 

[43167]

The spotter was definatly wrong. I can remember a 15xx Euston-Carlisle that was booked for a MK2 set.

 

[driver9000]

Also the Cross Country services were formed of mk2 coaches as were some of the loco hauled Regional Railways services to Barrow and Blackpool.

 

[Polarbear]

BR may have had a problem with this prior to the mid 1970's when the first loco hauled MK3's came into service...

 

[matchmaker]

Upon initial electrification 86s would haul mark IIs to Crewe where a 50 would take over and haul them to Glasgow. Once wires went north of Weaver Junction there was no locomotive change. There's a british transport film called the pain train which shows this run (and also how a few lost minutes here and there can create a big delay )

Didn't the changeover take place at Preston? When I did the trip in 1973 it was double headed 50's, and the electric loco was an 87.

 

[Manchester77]

When the film was made the 87s hadn't been built

And the wires stopped at the Weaver Junction which is south of Preston!!

 

[Buttsy]

Didn't the changeover take place at Preston? When I did the trip in 1973 it was double headed 50's, and the electric loco was an 87.

The changeover point moved once the electrification project was underway. From around 66/67 to 72ish, only Manchester & Liverpool were wired so the change had to be at Crewe.

 

[Polarbear]

The changeover point moved once the electrification project was underway. From around 66/67 to 72ish, only Manchester & Liverpool were wired so the change had to be at Crewe.

Weaver Jn to Preston was energised in late 1972/early 1973 & I think that the changeover point was moved to Preston as from the May 1973 timetable change. The full electric service commenced with the May 1974 timetable.

The first 87's were also introduced in 1973.

 

[route:oxford]

Some years ago, I recall an argument taking place between a young trainspotter and a driver. The trainspotter was adamant that MK IIs were banned north of Preston and the driver completely unaware of this.

From memory, some Intercity West Coast sets were almost entirely MK II (buffet aside) and others were entirely MK III.

Can anybody shed some light on the origins of this misunderstanding?

Are there any other IIs that it could be confused with?

Class II?

 

[Genocide]

The only possible and sensible answer might be that Mk III's - not II's - were banned on the Cumbrian Coast - initially throughout, then North of Barrow.

I believe this still applies.

 

[TOCDriver]

The only possible and sensible answer might be that Mk III's - not II's - were banned on the Cumbrian Coast - initially throughout, then North of Barrow.

I believe this still applies.

Indeed it does. The Cumbrian track is very dodgy in places, particulaly around the exposed areas north of drigg and South of St Bees, so you don't want too much weight going over it

 

[Eagle]

Class II?

Do you mean Class 02 or Class 11?

Because they're both shunters. :P

 

[455driver]

Indeed it does. The Cumbrian track is very dodgy in places, particulaly around the exposed areas north of drigg and South of St Bees, so you don't want too much weight going over it

A mk3 weighs a lot less than the loco that would be pulling it, the problem is the mk3s being 75ft long and hitting things on curves.

 

[Carlisle]

A mk3 weighs a lot less than the loco that would be pulling it, the problem is the mk3s being 75ft long and hitting things on curves.

I thought it wad also due to limited clearence of certain overbridges mainly between workington and carlisle

 

[ffm]

The length of rolling stock is one of the measurements that affects its clearances! Longer stock will overhang more on curves. On straight track length will not have any affect.

 

[The Planner]

Mk IIIs and IVs are clear up to Maryport in traffic, MK IIIs Maryport onwards as ECS. Power door Mk III and Mk III DVTs aren't (probably as they have never been looked at)

 

[Southern Dvr]

Another possibility might be that a combination of Mark 2s & Mark 3s wasn't allowed?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Another possibility might be that a combination of Mark 2s & Mark 3s wasn't allowed?

Doubt it as all the Mk 2 WCML sets had Mk 3 buffet cars in them and of course Mk 3 DVTs on one end.

 

[Beveridges]

The trainspotter is wrong, I don't know how the argument originated, maybe off some sort of train sim?