London to Halifax on Grand Central

[RJ]

I'm trying to book a ticket online for a return trip to Halifax in a couple of weeks, using Grand Central Advance tickets, no railcards. I've identified ticket types GCS (£26.50) for the outbound and GCU (12.25) for the return.

Is it me, or are these fares and the timetabled direct Grand Central services specifically excluded from the Redspottedhanky website? I have some e-vouchers I want to make use of.

 

[LexyBoy]

Show up for me, testing with the 21/22 Aug...

 

[RJ]

Thanks, I've got it now. I had clicked on the "No flexibility (cheapest only)" radio button expecting it to only show Advance fares. However, it seems to have had the effect of excluding Grand Central completely.

Bargain fares by the way, considering there isn't even a railcard being used! Any idea of the services on the route are run by HSTs or the 180s? It'll be the 14:48 from King's Cross and the 15:52 from Halifax, both on a weekday.

 

[LexyBoy]

The Bradford services are all/mostly 180s. Those trains are booked for 180 working.

 

[Deerfold]

Thanks, I've got it now. I had clicked on the "No flexibility (cheapest only)" radio button expecting it to only show Advance fares. However, it seems to have had the effect of excluding Grand Central completely.

Bargain fares by the way, considering there isn't even a railcard being used! Any idea of the services on the route are run by HSTs or the 180s? It'll be the 14:48 from King's Cross and the 15:52 from Halifax, both on a weekday.

They'll be class 180s (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Central_Railway#Rolling_stock).

They do have trains that go over 2000mph apparently (http://www.grandcentralrail.com/customer-service/our-trains/)

Have always come across very friendly staff - but I've only ever used them with a Day Rover within West Yorkshire.

 

[leyscjd]

My experience is not quite so favourable, though I have only used the Sunderland route. I no longer travel with them for the following reasons:

1. Last time I travelled with them I was told off for not sitting in my reserved seat despite the adjacent carriage being completely unreserved.

2. Their compensation scheme is inferior to East Coast. A 30-59 minute delay (very common on the ECML) generates no compensation with GC while it does with EC.

3. Since Arriva acquired them, their Advance fares on the Sunderland route have risen disproportionately and are often no longer competitive with EC.

4. Journey times north of York are very slow if your destination is Sunderland - EC to Newcastle & Metro are generally quicker.

5. Lack of GC+connections fares in the same way that EC (and even Hull Trains these days) offer.

For me, their only redeeming feature are their HST's - and on the Sunderland route only two thirds of their diagrams are booked HST. 180s are better than most modern DMUs but the internal state of GC's are tatty and tired.

 

[s'land]

My experience is not quite so favourable, though I have only used the Sunderland route. I no longer travel with them for the following reasons:

1. Last time I travelled with them I was told off for not sitting in my reserved seat despite the adjacent carriage being completely unreserved.

2. Their compensation scheme is inferior to East Coast. A 30-59 minute delay (very common on the ECML) generates no compensation with GC while it does with EC.

3. Since Arriva acquired them, their Advance fares on the Sunderland route have risen disproportionately and are often no longer competitive with EC.

4. Journey times north of York are very slow if your destination is Sunderland - EC to Newcastle & Metro are generally quicker.

5. Lack of GC+connections fares in the same way that EC (and even Hull Trains these days) offer.

For me, their only redeeming feature are their HST's - and on the Sunderland route only two thirds of their diagrams are booked HST. 180s are better than most modern DMUs but the internal state of GC's are tatty and tired.

Disagree with point 4, even taking into account of the slower Durham Coast Line, it can take up to 40 minutes to travel from Newcastle to Sunderland on the Metro (if your very lucky you can get the hourly Northern rail service which takes @ 20 minutes), then there is up to 20 minutes connection time if your unlucky when catching the Metro!

 

[yorkie]

1. Last time I travelled with them I was told off for not sitting in my reserved seat despite the adjacent carriage being completely unreserved.

I regularly book the 1912 from Kings Cross, which always has some coaches fully reserved but one coach unreserved. So I go to an alternative seat, and have never been 'told off' for doing that.

3. Since Arriva acquired them, their Advance fares on the Sunderland route have risen disproportionately and are often no longer competitive with EC.

I always get the lowest tier on the 1912. If it wasn't the lowest tier, I wouldn't book it.

5. Lack of GC+connections fares in the same way that EC (and even Hull Trains these days) offer.

That is a concern, and if HT can do it, so can GC!

For me, their only redeeming feature are their HST's - and on the Sunderland route only two thirds of their diagrams are booked HST. 180s are better than most modern DMUs but the internal state of GC's are tatty and tired.

Agreed. I wish the 1912 was a HST! I can't remember the last time I sat in a Standard Class Mk3, as for the past couple of years there's always a declassified 1st coach on their HSTs whenever I am fortunate enough to use them!

 

[142094]

Still is a declassified 1st on one of their rakes, although I think most people have become wise to this.

 

[RJ]

Now I need to think about my own tickets. Can I use interavailable Priv rate tickets on Grand Central, or is it like WSMR where Priv wasn't accepted? I'm not really liking the SOR price of £63 so will be looking to bring that down to around £25, if I can.

 

[Urban Gateline]

Now I need to think about my own tickets. Can I use interavailable Priv rate tickets on Grand Central, or is it like WSMR where Priv wasn't accepted?

I used a PRIV discounted ALR on GC and HT services and both times it was accepted with no comment, it's probably not allowed though officially, I'd expect that to be the case in your situation too!

 

[hairyhandedfool]

Priv is fine on both.

 

[AlterEgo]

I used a PRIV discounted ALR on GC and HT services and both times it was accepted with no comment, it's probably not allowed though officially, I'd expect that to be the case in your situation too!

ALRs are valid on both TOCs as they are fully interavailable tickets.

Your Priv is valid on Grand Central (check your Priv - it says "all TOCS" on the front and reverse!) and you can buy your ticket on board.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Bargain fares by the way, considering there isn't even a railcard being used! Any idea of the services on the route are run by HSTs or the 180s? It'll be the 14:48 from King's Cross and the 15:52 from Halifax, both on a weekday.

All West Riding services are 180s. HSTs only do Sunderland diagrams sadly.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

There was an exclusion some time ago, and I believe it is in the travel restrictions published on the RSTL website. Will have a check.

EDIT : Found it. The seasonal travel restrictions guide on the RSTL website states that it is not valid.

Grand Central are an open access operator. They have no agreement to exchange travel facilities with the franchised Train Operating Companies and as such free and privilege rate travel facilities are not available for use on Grand Central services

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I thought they had made an agreement?????

 

[reb0118]

I thought they had made an agreement?????

Yes, but they can not be trusted! Remember what happened after Munich.

 

[AlterEgo]

There was an exclusion some time ago, and I believe it is in the travel restrictions published on the RSTL website. Will have a check.

EDIT : Found it. The seasonal travel restrictions guide on the RSTL website states that it is not valid.

That would seem to be out of date. Grand Central made an agreement for reciprocal staff travel about 18-24 months ago, if I recall.

Privs are valid on all TOCs, as the card says on the front and rear.

 

[CyrusWuff]

If memory serves, doesn't the staff travel arrangement on GC only apply to employees of other Arriva TOCs (i.e. ATW, Chiltern, London Overground, XC and possibly Tyne & Wear Metro) and Northern? Or am I imagining things?

 

[Pumbaa]

I agree with the interpretation that GC travel remains available only to those with Arriva passes. That was the case in January of this year.

@AlterEgo - your view may be stymied by your new pass?

 

[hairyhandedfool]

If memory serves, doesn't the staff travel arrangement on GC only apply to employees of other Arriva TOCs (i.e. ATW, Chiltern, London Overground, XC and possibly Tyne & Wear Metro) and Northern? Or am I imagining things?

Free travel maybe (certainly true for Northern), but I thought they had an agreement for reduced rate (Priv) travel for all TOC staff.

 

[Aictos]

ALRs are valid on both TOCs as they are fully interavailable tickets.

Your Priv is valid on Grand Central (check your Priv - it says "all TOCS" on the front and reverse!) and you can buy your ticket on board.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


All West Riding services are 180s. HSTs only do Sunderland diagrams sadly.

Just a note to say that while 180s are mostly used on the West Riding services they can and do sometimes get used on the Sunderland services - I should know as I've been on such a service

Also while the HSTs are mostly used on the Sunderland services, I believe they are now cleared to work the West Riding services as a set did work to Bradford Interchange.

The 17th July 2012 saw the first working of a Grand Central HST to Bradford Interchange, on the West Riding route. 43465 and 43467 were used on it.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Free travel maybe (certainly true for Northern), but I thought they had an agreement for reduced rate (Priv) travel for all TOC staff.

If memory serves, doesn't the staff travel arrangement on GC only apply to employees of other Arriva TOCs (i.e. ATW, Chiltern, London Overground, XC and possibly Tyne & Wear Metro) and Northern? Or am I imagining things?

That would seem to be out of date. Grand Central made an agreement for reciprocal staff travel about 18-24 months ago, if I recall.

Privs are valid on all TOCs, as the card says on the front and rear.

I have friends who work for GC and they do not get PRIV, only agreements with other Arriva companies and Northern. That document quoting the restriction is not out of date, it is the summer 2013 guide on the RSTL website.

Privs are valid on all TOCS subject to restrictions listed in that travel guide, and barring use on GC is one of those restrictions. Having said that they are generally a friendly bunch and if asked will often accept them in my experience.

 

[Mr Spock]

I have never had a problem using a pass on GC, as said staff are very friendly.

 

[AlterEgo]

I agree with the interpretation that GC travel remains available only to those with Arriva passes. That was the case in January of this year.

@AlterEgo - your view may be stymied by your new pass?

It's not... I am sure I am correct but will check... I don't just work for the one company

Priv cards as of two years ago used to have printed on them that the facility wasn't available on some open-access TOCs, GC included. That changed about two Junes ago, and it clearly states "All TOCs" on both sides.

I believe the document on the RSTL website may contain out of date information, despite being a June 2013 revision of previous incarnations.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

It's not... I am sure I am correct but will check... I don't just work for the one company

Priv cards as of two years ago used to have printed on them that the facility wasn't available on some open-access TOCs, GC included. That changed about two Junes ago, and it clearly states "All TOCs" on both sides.

I believe the document on the RSTL website may contain out of date information, despite being a June 2013 revision of previous incarnations.

From memory the only change to the wording on the Priv cards was that it used to say that it wasn't valid on Strathclyde PTE services, and when it became valid that was changed to say all TOCs. If I could find some of my old ones that I have somewhere I could check. I don't recall them ever mentioning the open access operators on the cards, only ever in the travel restrictions book.

 

[reb0118]

..............wasn't valid on Strathclyde PTE services.............

I could never understand this restriction. I'm not sure if it was ever enforced. We at Edinburgh* were never officially informed about it even though those with TOCNE cards would have seen the restriction mentioned on their own card.


**Edinburgh crews did & do work into the former SPTE area.

 

[RJ]

The Bradford services are all/mostly 180s. Those trains are booked for 180 working.

They'll be class 180s (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Central_Railway#Rolling_stock).

They do have trains that go over 2000mph apparently (http://www.grandcentralrail.com/customer-service/our-trains/)

Have always come across very friendly staff - but I've only ever used them with a Day Rover within West Yorkshire.

Thank you for confirming that. It is not an experience I am looking forward to. I travelled FC in one on my ALR and it was absolutely gutters - strewn with litter, seats faded and worn out, power points not working, ambience was somewhat chaotic, hot food off the menu and a trolley assistant with a face like a smacked bottom who was concealing the full range of refreshments. I will have to stomach it as I'm travelling as part of a group. If it was down to me I'd sooner pay to use EC then change if that's the best GC can do.

I see the question about Priv has elicited divided opinion. I did call ATOC about it last week and left a message, but didn't get a response. I called the CrossCountry contact in The Manual who defiantly stated that interavailable Priv tickets were valid on GC, but if GC staff don't get a Priv and there's a published exclusion on ATOC's site, that would suggest the opposite. I'll have to call GC tomorrow.

 

[Cambus731]

safeguarded travelcard boxes are accepted without any problems on GC, as I used their trains quite a few times now.

 

[AlterEgo]

Interavailable Priv tickets are valid on GC - I have checked (maybe it's the same contact RJ!). However, no Priv is available on fares priced by GC routed GC only.

GC staff don't *usually* get a Priv - plenty of head office staff have one though. It is an unusual operation.

 

[Solent&Wessex]

Direct via a message, just now, by a friend who is GC TM:

Priv Tickets "Any Permitted" are now valid, he believes.

Boxes are definitely not valid.

Unofficially they are accepted, if asked.