Northern rail fare evasion. Really worried!

[Cookie94]

Hello,

Before i start i would just like to say how incredibly stupid i have been, and i realise that what i've done is wrong, and i am now incredibly worried, stressed, and scared.

The other day i was catching the train from horwich parkway to deansgate, when i arrived at horwich, the train was already on the platform as i was running late so i jumped on intending to buy a ticket on the train. However, the train was really busy and so no conductor came down the train. So i made it to deansgate without a ticket, and when i went to buy my ticket from the window, for some unknown reason, and i have never tried this before, as i have always bought full fare tickets, i said that i had got on at salford. Then, a man pulled me over with my ticket to say that he knows that i didnt get on at salford as they were issuing the tokens, and if i didnt have one then i couldnt have got on there.
As someone who's never been in trouble at school or anything, i immediately started to become very shaken and scared, and told the guy that i wasn't sure of the name of the station that i had got on at, as i am an auditor and use different stations all around the uk every day, and that i would need to check online, and that i thought that as i was in a rush to get to work, i thought that getting a single from salford, to then get a return on the way home, once i had found my station online at work, was better than not buying a ticket at all.

i know how stupid this was, but it was the day before payday, and i was desperate to save money where i could.

Anyway, he took my details, checked my ID, and got me to sign his book and the ticket, and told me that i would receive a letter in the post in a few weeks, asking to provide a statement, and then they would decide what to do from there, and that this could go to court and i would receive a criminal record.

This was the first time that i'd ever tried something like this as i always normally buy my ticket from my departure station. I really need some advice with this as I'm trying to keep this from my parents as they would go ballistic, and like i said, this has left me incredibly shaken and scared, and i don't know what to do.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated, thank you.

 

[evoluzione]

It does not sound like the first time you have done this if I'm being honest, man up and accept you've been caught.

The last week, every time I've been walking to or from the Mess Room, I have witnessed people pleading / crying with the RPI guy, you didn't buy the correct ticket, you knew you bought the incorrect ticket, you could of gone and found the guard on the train not too difficult to do at all, you could of bought the correct ticket at Deansgate, what do you want you want us to do on here?

Pat your back and say it will all be ok?

Sorry, it's time to face the consequences big man.

 

[reb0118]

.............. i am an auditor and use different stations all around the uk every day, and that i would need to check online,............

Well, it looks like you have been well & truly audited!

In all seriousness though, Northern probably do have enough to take this to a prosecution if they wish. That said, however, what may happen is that they offer to settle out of court for the fare due plus an administrative penalty.

Currently the administrative penalty with Northern is £80 ~ but this is usually for first time instances of not buying before boarding. You have compounded this error by also lying about where you boarded the train ~ this may be seen as attempting to avoid your correct fare.

You will have to await the letter from Northern, and when received respond truthfully in the permitted timescale. It's a waiting game from hereon in. NB the railway's fraud & prosecution departments are rather small and you may have to wait awhile ~ this is quite normal. Think in weeks rather than days.

Additional Info:-

Northern's options include, but are not limited to, ignoring this incidence (unlikely), seeking the fare + an administrative penalty to close the matter, prosecuting you under the railway bylaws ~ this is a strict liability offence and the fact that you could not present a valid ticket when asked proves your guilt, or prosecuting you under the more onerous Regulation of Railways Act 1889 for this the railway would have to prove your intent to avoid your fare ~ I leave it up to you to think if they have enough evidence for that.

 

[Cookie94]

evoluzione I just want to know what I should put in my statement when asked for this to try and avoid this going to court.

reb0118, thank you for your information. What would you recommend that I write in my statement, I am absolutely petrified about all of this.

 

[LateThanNever]

It's really temptimg - I'm ancient enough to know that you used to be able to get away with this on the Underground - where in the past the absence of staff pretty much encoraged you to get away with whatever you wished but these days they are all much smarter (indeed there must be few who travel on the Underground without an Oyster card) so be straight and try and limit the damage! Think that NR and others have learnt a lot from the old Undergound fare experience.

 

[455driver]

Isnt it strange how you decided to state you got on at the closest station to Manchester?
If you had decided to buy a ticket from the furthest station you could have caught the train from then you would have been fine, but you could remember the name of some random station the train went through.

Are you being serious when you say you would have to look up on your computer where you had got on the train? I would suggest you see your doctor (if you can remember where the surgery is ) and tell him you have memory problems.

 

[bb21]

Can I just reiterate the request that members refrain from commenting merely on how wrong the OP has been without anything else useful please. The OP is here because he/she realises that he/she has done wrong. If receiving help means he/she doesn't do it again then it is only a good thing. On the other hand if the OP is only looking for excuses then one day he/she will get caught again and be dealt with severely so there is no need to stick the boot in.

The other day i was catching the train from horwich parkway to deansgate, when i arrived at horwich, the train was already on the platform as i was running late so i jumped on intending to buy a ticket on the train. However, the train was really busy and so no conductor came down the train. So i made it to deansgate without a ticket, and when i went to buy my ticket from the window, for some unknown reason, and i have never tried this before, as i have always bought full fare tickets, i said that i had got on at salford. Then, a man pulled me over with my ticket to say that he knows that i didnt get on at salford as they were issuing the tokens, and if i didnt have one then i couldnt have got on there.

If I am honest, I find your story a bit bizarre to say the least. Not accusing you of lying (as I wasn't there) but if you had the intention of paying the correct fare, it is difficult to believe that you would "forget" which station you got on, because you would have been conscious that you will need this vital piece of information when purchasing your ticket. If you have never been to that station then surely you would have made a mental note of the station name when you got there, unless you already had a ticket. Also your action of asking for a short ticket can be seen in court as proof that you had no intention of paying the correct fare, should it get that far.

I have no idea what really happened on the day, and really just playing Devil's Advocate here. Just be aware how your story might come across to the person who reads your version of the events at Northern's Prosecution Department if you insist that you had every intention to pay the correct fare.

As someone who's never been in trouble at school or anything, i immediately started to become very shaken and scared, and told the guy that i wasn't sure of the name of the station that i had got on at, as i am an auditor and use different stations all around the uk every day, and that i would need to check online, and that i thought that as i was in a rush to get to work, i thought that getting a single from salford, to then get a return on the way home, once i had found my station online at work, was better than not buying a ticket at all.

I don't really understand your logic in these ticket purchases you intended to do so I cannot possibly comment on it. Is Horwich your home station, as you mention that you were in a rush to get to work. If so, it would be even more bizarre that you "forgot" where you got on.

As for what to say in the letter, all I can say is be honest (and I seriously mean be honest) about what really happened, because anything that is made up will likely contain holes which Northern will be able to exploit. I am unable to offer you any more than this because there are too many things in your story that are not adding up for me to really understand what your situation was on the day. Only you know what really happened, so only you can write a letter based on the absolute truth.

 

[Gd1992]

Honesty is the best policy

 

[DaveNewcastle]

I agree with bb21's request to be supportive and helpful, rather than critical. I guess the benefit of the criticisms (if there is one) will be to provide the insight into how others will read this report of events.

It might be worth considering the fact that hundreds of people every day (perhaps thousands) attempt to save themselves a few pounds by buying a ticket at their destination from a closer station than the one at which they actually boarded, and this simple money-saving strategy has been practiced since the railways became a significant carrier of travellers over a hundred years ago. Its a fact known as well to railway staff as it is to passengers.

What does raise suspicion though, are the astonishingly high proportion of those passengers with this simple money-saving ploy who also have an elaborate and convoluted explanation to tell as soon as their 'trick' is detected. Its those complex explanations that make the passenger look more like someone who will be more deliberately dishonest.

For this reason alone, I ask if it really worth raising this suspicion of deliberate dishonesty when all you have done is taken a foolish chance in depriving a Railway of a few pounds? If you agree with me, then just apologise for your foolish decision and forget the complicated story.

If you really are an auditor (in the professional sense) then you will be well aware that an auditor is engaged to be suspicious even when there is no apparent reason to doubt the information presented. Well, it's the same in Revenue Protection.

 

[cuccir]

Your story doesn't sound very believable, as the above posts testify. I'd reiterate the advice above: the story about forgetting your station is unlikely to be believed. Reb0118 sets out what might happen with regards to prosecution, and DaveNewcastle offers a good explanation as to why your story might be believed.

My reason for adding an extra post is point out that it can often be several months, rather than just weeks, before you receive a letter asking for your version of events. In the meantime, what might be best is to write down and save a clear and objective description of what happened, and then try to push it to the back of your mind!

 

[Cookie94]

Hi guys, thanks for all your help.

I admit that what I told the guy wasn't what happened but Im a nervous person and I just panicked. The real reason was due to the money, like I said it was close to payday, I wasn't sure how much was left on my card and I knew I didn't have enough cash, but I was too ashamed at the time to admit this to the guy.

If I draft what I'm going to write, will you guys proof it for me?

 

[Squaddie]

Hi guys, thanks for all your help.

I admit that what I told the guy wasn't what happened but Im a nervous person and I just panicked. The real reason was due to the money, like I said it was close to payday, I wasn't sure how much was left on my card and I knew I didn't have enough cash, but I was too ashamed at the time to admit this to the guy.

If I draft what I'm going to write, will you guys proof it for me?

Just tell the truth. Keep it simple, with no convoluted explanations or excuses for your actions, say you've learned your lesson and apologise. It really won't matter to Northern how close you were to payday, and the easier you make it for them to decide on a course of action the more likely you are to get away with a demand for the unpaid fare plus an administrative penalty.

There is one glaring inconsistency in your account that you will have to explain. You say that you lied about where you boarded the train because you didn't have enough money on you and weren't sure whether your card would work - in that case, how did you initially intend to pay for the journey?

 

[Comstock]

Just tell the truth. Keep it simple, with no convoluted explanations or excuses for your actions, say you've learned your lesson and apologise. It really won't matter to Northern how close you were to payday, and the easier you make it for them to decide on a course of action the more likely you are to get away with a demand for the unpaid fare plus an administrative penalty.

I agree. If this is the first time this has happened and you are looking to go with £80 plus the fare I would suggest something as simple as 'I very much regret my foolish actions of (date) and wish to apologise to all concerned. I would very much welcome the opportunity to deal with this by way of a penalty fare"

They are going to have heard every story under the sun- true, false, crazy and sensible. You want to make this quick, clean and simple for the lady/gent in the penalty fares office, to make this as routine as possible for them.

What do others think?

 

[cuccir]

I agree. If this is the first time this has happened and you are looking to go with £80 plus the fare I would suggest something as simple as 'I very much regret my foolish actions of (date) and wish to apologise to all concerned. I would very much welcome the opportunity to deal with this by way of a penalty fare"

They are going to have heard every story under the sun- true, false, crazy and sensible. You want to make this quick, clean and simple for the lady/gent in the penalty fares office, to make this as routine as possible for them.

What do others think?

I wouldn't mention penalty fare, as it confuses the issue a little because Northern rail don't do formal Penalty Fares, as such: they do often offer £80 Fixed Penalties, and there is a subtle but significant difference between the two.

The response will depend on the letter that you get sent. I think Northern now often just send out a request for the £80 penalty, without going through the process of attempting to gather evidence for prosecution. If this is the case, then just pay it promptly!

Other than that though this advice is sound. Presuming that it you receive a standard request for evidence then answer truthfully and apologetically, and offer to pay the fare plus any costs. Remember though that anything you write down may be used as evidence against you in court if Northern decide to prosecute.