Violent passenger hunted.

[Johnuk123]

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/New...train-at-Cambridge-station-20130715095052.htm

A man who punched a fellow passenger in the face after being challenged for barging onto a train at Cambridge station is being hunted by police.

Perhaps somebody on here knows this thug.

 

[yorkie]

Sometimes there's more to these incidents than one party will admit.

How do we know the 'victim' didn't dangerously barge on, then the boarding passenger challenged him, he may have been abusive and started to go for the alighting passenger who realised what was happening and thumped him back? As I didn't see what happened, and the description by one party sounds fishy and sounds like an admission of barging, then I am keeping an open mind on this.

I am thoroughly fed up of people who barge on, and if this person has made a stand in altercation against such a person, then I don't think it's fair to call him an 'attacker'.

As for "he began to board but a man pushed into him." I am sure that could apply to several of us. If someone starts to board while I am getting off, then I will push into them to get off. I won't just let them push me back into the train! Try getting off at York on a train heading towards Sunderland or Middlesbrough on a Saturday night, and see what it's like, a barrage of people barging sometimes, and if you don't stand your ground, you may be hurt and/or swept back onto the train. I know other forum members have witnessed such behaviour.

 

[Nym]

Yup, had that at Blackfriars with someone aspiring to become part of the master race, pushed rather firmly asside and given verbal right back. What he thought where tourists actually being a displaced northern commuter is a supprise usually.
Same happened at Oxford Circ with a group of Eastern European tourists...

I'll state now for clarity that I was not violent in either instance.

 

[SWTCommuter]

How do we know the 'victim' didn't dangerously barge on, then the boarding passenger challenged him, he may have been abusive and started to go for the alighting passenger who realised what was happening and thumped him back?

Pc Harvey continued: “It is believed the man left the service at Ely.

If the 'attacker' alighted at Ely then presumably both parties were boarding at Cambridge.

 

[Nym]

If the 'attacker' alighted at Ely then presumably both parties were boarding at Cambridge.

Could have been the worst of all crimes by the 'victim' then...
Quebarging.

 

[yorkie]

If the 'attacker' alighted at Ely then presumably both parties were boarding at Cambridge.

Hmm, good point, most altercations of this nature are between alighting and boarding passengers, but on reflection I agree that both parties were boarding at Cambridge, in which case it's not as I thought it might be!

I do wish journalists would make their facts a bit more clear, so we don't have to try to unravel them!

 

[Antman]

The photo is pretty clear and I would think it would be in this persons best interests to contact the police himself about it.

Of course there MAY be more to this than meets the eye and I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about who is or isn't the guilty party here.

I also wonder why nobody apparently phoned 999 at the time?

 

[BestWestern]

The photo is pretty clear and I would think it would be in this persons best interests to contact the police himself about it.

Of course there MAY be more to this than meets the eye and I wouldn't jump to any conclusions about who is or isn't the guilty party here.

I also wonder why nobody apparently phoned 999 at the time?

Indeed, I would think this fella will likely be identified pretty swiftly. It always surprises me though how grainy many CCTV images are, this one identifies the suspect but it's by no means crystal clear; surely modern tech can do better than that?!

As for dialing 999, many people just don't, do they?! Time and again we see images of something nasty happening and people will just stand back and watch. Such is our crumbling society I suppose, ho hum

 

[ralphchadkirk]

As for dialing 999, many people just don't, do they?! Time and again we see images of something nasty happening and people will just stand back and watch. Such is our crumbling society I suppose, ho hum

Nothing to do with crumbling society; it's a recognised psychological effect.

 

[BestWestern]

Nothing to do with crumbling society; it's a recognised psychological effect.

Interesting, an effect of what though? I'd have though the obvious 'effect' of seeing something very obviously wrong happening right in front of you would be an instinctive urge to stop it, either by intervening directly or by summoning help?

 

[transmanche]

Interesting, an effect of what though? I'd have though the obvious 'effect' of seeing something very obviously wrong happening right in front of you would be an instinctive urge to stop it, either by intervening directly or by summoning help?

It's called the bystander effect. In particular one effect is; the more bystanders there are, the less likely it that one will intervene - people always assume that someone else will be 'more qualified' to help than they are.

Human beings are not always logical or rational...

 

[GodAtum]

There was a lot of angry people on the SWT network yesterday! surprised no-one got hurt.

 

[oversteer]

I have seen someone boarding a train get thumped by another passenger who was trying to board.
He was pushing his way on using a Brompton to bash people out of the way.

Nobody actually batted an eyelid and everyone boarded the train normally, including puncher and punchee, who didn't seem to have any injury.

This was at Gerrards Cross of all places ..

 

[CockneySparrow]

If the 'attacker' alighted at Ely then presumably both parties were boarding at Cambridge.

Not to say that both parties live in Ely though

They could have both gone elsewhere

 

[317666]

Try getting off at York on a train heading towards Sunderland or Middlesbrough on a Saturday night, and see what it's like, a barrage of people barging sometimes, and if you don't stand your ground, you may be hurt and/or swept back onto the train. I know other forum members have witnessed such behaviour.

An example of this more local to the article is the 22:15 from Kings Cross on a Saturday night, try alighting from that at Cambridge when it's the last train to Kings Lynn of the night...

 

[SussexSpotter]

As for dialing 999, many people just don't, do they?! Time and again we see images of something nasty happening and people will just stand back and watch. Such is our crumbling society I suppose, ho hum

And the government insist crime is falling......:roll: I think the real truth is fewer people are reporting it these days. I wonder how much crime on our railways goes ''unreported'' because some people just don't bother phoning 999 and turn their back on it, or assume somebody else has already phoned????

 

[island]

And the Standard today says police are filtering out many crimes as unsolvable at an early stage.

 

[SussexSpotter]

And the Standard today says police are filtering out many crimes as unsolvable at an early stage.

Well that doesn't surprise me....and even if they can solve them its usually a slap on the wrist...''don't do it again Sonny Jim!''....or community service :roll:

 

[455driver]

And the government insist crime has fallen......:roll:

no they dont, they say reported crime is falling!

The rest of your post is spot on.
Have you tried reporting a crime lately, it took me nearly an hour to get through to the right person (after being passed from pillar to post) before I could actually report it, and then they just gave me a crime number for the insurance as it was not deemed worthy of a coppers valuable time, it was only £800 worth of tools after all! :roll:

 

[transmanche]

And the government insist crime has fallen......:roll: I think the real truth is fewer people are reporting it these days. I wonder how much crime on our railways goes ''unreported'' because some people just don't bother phoning 999 and turn their back on it, or assume somebody else has already phoned????

There are two sets of statistics. The police stats, which measure reported crime. And the annual crime survey, which measures people's experience of crime - i.e. it includes unreported crimes as well. (Of course governments will usually highlight whichever of the reports is more favourable to them at any given time.)

Crime as measured by the crime survey (that's the one which includes unreported crimes) has fallen by a fifth over the past six years - continuing a trend which started in the late 90s. However people's fear of crime has increased - respondents to that same survey believed crime had increased a little or a lot over the past decade. (No doubt fuelled by regular 'moral panics' in the media.)

 

[SussexSpotter]

no they dont, they say reported crime is falling!

The rest of your post is spot on.
Have you tried reporting a crime lately, it took me nearly an hour to get through to the right person (after being passed from pillar to post) before I could actually report it, and then they just gave me a crime number for the insurance as it was not deemed worthy of a coppers valuable time, it was only £800 worth of tools after all! :roll:

Edited now .....

Not lately I havn't, but from what you've said the whole crime reporting system sounds a bit of a joke really. A bit like the NHS's new '111' number.....havn't used it myself yet but have read plenty about it...

There are two sets of statistics. The police stats, which measure reported crime. And the annual crime survey, which measures people's experience of crime - i.e. it includes unreported crimes as well. (Of course governments will usually highlight whichever of the reports is more favourable to them at any given time.)

Crime as measured by the crime survey (that's the one which includes unreported crimes) has fallen by a fifth over the past six years - continuing a trend which started in the late 90s. However people's fear of crime has increased - respondents to that same survey believed crime had increased a little or a lot over the past decade. (No doubt fuelled by regular 'moral panics' in the media.)

I expect a lot which has changed is the type's of crime people report. People's fear of crime is probably down to the lack of faith in the Police, the culture and the type of society we live in now.

I heard not too long ago that the railways are winning the war on the cable theives so that type of railway crime is falling which is good......nothing but a menace they are!

 

[transmanche]

I expect a lot which has changed is the type's of crime people report. People's fear of crime is probably down to the lack of faith in the Police, the culture and the type of society we live in now.

A lot of it ties in quite nicely with the recent 'British public wrong about almost everything' survey (see thread). People's perception of crime is to a large extent influenced by the media. And the media loves moral panics, as it sells papers/gets ratings.

just think of the recent moral panic over knife crime. But 'tis ever thus - in the 50s it was Teddy Boys and razor gangs, in the 60s it was Mods and Rockers, in the 70s it was Skinheads and football hooligans. Young men have always carried knives and got into fights. But we think of those times as 'the good old days'...

 

[455driver]

Crime as measured by the crime survey (that's the one which includes unreported crimes) has fallen by a fifth over the past six years - continuing a trend which started in the late 90s.

If crimes are not reported how can they be included in this survey?
The fact the crimes are not reported means there is no record of them!

 

[jon0844]

I've used the 111 service and have to say that both times they were excellent. But I've heard all the negative press of course.

 

[Eagle]

If crimes are not reported how can they be included in this survey?

Because people might report crimes to the survey (ex post facto) but not to the police at the time.

 

[SussexSpotter]

Because people might report crimes to the survey (ex post facto) but not to the police at the time.

But then again.....not everyone who lives in the UK would respond to the survey....

 

[ralphchadkirk]

I've used the 111 service and have to say that both times they were excellent. But I've heard all the negative press of course.

It differs area by area. Herts is really good - I know a couple of clinicians in the control room and it works really well. Other areas aren't so good.

 

[transmanche]

If crimes are not reported how can they be included in this survey?
The fact the crimes are not reported means there is no record of them!

Because they actually do a survey! And people who might not trust the police are more likely to tell the researcher - i.e. there's no incentive to complete the survey and not tell them about a crime committed against you!

But then again.....not everyone who lives in the UK would respond to the survey....

No, they target 50,000 households - of which about 75% actually respond. So no, it's not everyone in the UK - but then opinion polls (which are generally accurate to within 2 or 3 percentage points) are generally based on a survey of only 1,000 people.

But when push comes to shove, I think the ONS is a more accurate source of data than 'the bloke down the pub'...

I've used the 111 service and have to say that both times they were excellent. But I've heard all the negative press of course.

111, the replacement for NHS Direct? Or 101, the police non-emergency number?

 

[SussexSpotter]

No, they target 50,000 households - of which about 75% actually respond. So no, it's not everyone in the UK - but then opinion polls (which are generally accurate to within 2 or 3 percentage points) are generally based on a survey of only 1,000 people.

But when push comes to shove, I think the ONS is a more accurate source of data than 'the bloke down the pub'...

Hmmm.....As we have no information about the 50,000 households they used for the survey (or 75% of that as you say responded) then it is difficult to reach a final conclusion about the true figures for unreported crime here in UK. I'm not suggesting what you are saying is wrong, i'd just like to know more information that's all.

 

[Eagle]

As we have no information about the 50,000 households they used for the survey (or 75% of that as you say responded) then it is difficult to reach a final conclusion about the true figures for unreported crime here in UK.

Oh come on, pretty much all statistics are based on surveys like this or smaller. 50,000 is easily large enough to be a representative sample. And I think I'd trust the ONS to come up with a decent demographic sample to do this survey.

But clearly you have no knowledge of surveying or statistical methods, so I'm not going to bother trying to explain to you why your statement is ridiculous.