Leeds - Goole in the late 1990s

[NorthernSpirit]

Over the years the Leeds to Goole service has been downgraded to nothing more than three trains per day, two to Leeds (0704 and 1849 from Goole) and one to Goole (1716 from Leeds) with no Sunday service.

What I'm asking is, what were the old departure times on this route? as I did read elsewhere that there use to be somethinng in the region of 5/6 trains per day then in 2000 / 01 it was reduced to a morning peak, a day time return and an evening peak until the 2004 timetable change which has been in use for almost a decade.

I don't think that this has been asked before.

 

[flymo]

If you mean the route through Knottingley, the 1998 timetable show 2 trains per day Mon - Sat from Leeds to Goole at 1210 (arr 1315) and 1727 (arr 1832). Returning there were 3 trains from Goole at 0706, 1334 and 1850 (arr 0815, 1443 and 2002 respectively). Sundays the services only ran between Leeds and Knottingley.

Hope this is of interest, if there are any other routes let me know and I'll look them up for you.

 

[David Barrett]

Here's 1969/70 for your study. The Bus connections shown are as a result of the changes which took place earlier in the 1960s prior to which the Goole service operated to Wakefield Kirkgate, reflecting its origins with the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway, rather than Leeds. If I recall correctly the service from around 1990 onwards is the one to which you refer, being part of a round of reductions affecting several routes in the North East.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

If you mean the route through Knottingley, the 1998 timetable show 2 trains per day Mon - Sat from Leeds to Goole at 1210 (arr 1315) and 1727 (arr 1832). Returning there were 3 trains from Goole at 0706, 1334 and 1850 (arr 0815, 1443 and 2002 respectively). Sundays the services only ran between Leeds and Knottingley.

Hope this is of interest, if there are any other routes let me know and I'll look them up for you.

Brilliant, thanks for that and also to David Barrett in providing me with the 69/70 timetable.

If possible the times for Sheffield to York via Pontefract Baghill. I do recall the line having four return journeys and that bizzarly on a limited service line that Baghill was staffed.

 

[flymo]

Certainly:

Sheffield - York Mon -Sat at 0935, 1327 (from Chesterfield), 2132 SO, 2150 SX; Sun at 0906 (to Scarborough), 1740 and 2124
York - Sheffield Mon - Sat at 1110 (to Chesterfield) and 1510; Sun at 1606, 1911 (from Scarborough) and 1945.

There may have been a few minutes difference in the Saturday times compared with the Mon - Fri times but I only included the one that was significantly different.

 

[Ploughman]

During 1990 and 91 I used to get to do cab rides as part of my job.
The hardest line to do was the Knottingley - Goole stretch due to there only being 2 - 3 trains a day. 1 very early, 1 about midday and another late on.

 

[Sidious]

I've just had a look in my Summer 1992 timetable and the departures were 07:10, 13:50 and 18:50 form Goole to Leeds, and 12:07 and 17:24 Leeds to Goole, if this helps?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I still have a dog-eared British Rail 1981-1982 timetable that Table 28 shows Monday to Saturday services as being:-

Leeds departures at 0703 (arr 0814), 0930 (arr 1041), 1213 (arr 1326), 1429 (arr 1540) 1647 (arr 1758), 1737 (arr 1848)

Goole departures at 0713 (arr 0825), 0842 (arr 0955), 1049 (arr 1205), 1258 (arr 1412), 1615 (arr 1728), 1813 (arr 1925)

All stations were called at on all of these trains which went via Castleford and Knottingley.

No Sunday services are shown.

These give an example of what was the case 10 years prior to the OP query

 

[Sidious]

Also for the same timetable:

On Sheffield to York there was:

From Sheffield (calls at) 06:59 (PFR), 07:02 (All Stops) 09:00 (MRP, PFR) 11:57 (most) 15:45 (most) 19:25 SX (most, 19:35 SO).

The (most) services called all stops except Bolton on Dearne, Goldthorpe and Thurnscoe. The 06:59 was from Derby to Scarborough. The 09:00 was Chesterfield to Scarborough.

From York:

08:55 (most), 13:36 (most) 17:42 (all) 21:40 SX (21:50 SO) (most).

17:42 was from Scarborough.

 

[Welshman]

Here's 1969/70 for your study. The Bus connections shown are as a result of the changes which took place earlier in the 1960s prior to which the Goole service operated to Wakefield Kirkgate, reflecting its origins with the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway, rather than Leeds. If I recall correctly the service from around 1990 onwards is the one to which you refer, being part of a round of reductions affecting several routes in the North East.

Prior to 1964, some Goole-Wakefield Kirkgate services were also extended to Bradford Exchange via Dewbury Central and Laisterdyke.

I well remember one which ran through to Hull - it left Bradford about 1110, ran via Wakefield Kirkgate and Goole, and was then non-stop to Hull, arriving about 1315. It returned almost immediately, and arrived back in Bradford about 1530.

Bradford Exchange to Goole may seem a strange passenger flow, and I doubt many made the through journey, but as you rightly say, Goole was an important port to the Lancashire and Yorkshire Railway, as their main access to the East Coast,and services in the 50s and 60s from the Joint GN/L&Y station at Bradford Exchange and the L&Y station at Wakefield Kirkgate were a throw-back to that importance.

 

[David Barrett]

I still have a dog-eared British Rail 1981-1982 timetable that Table 28 shows Monday to Saturday services as being:-

Leeds departures at 0703 (arr 0814), 0930 (arr 1041), 1213 (arr 1326), 1429 (arr 1540) 1647 (arr 1758), 1737 (arr 1848)

Goole departures at 0713 (arr 0825), 0842 (arr 0955), 1049 (arr 1205), 1258 (arr 1412), 1615 (arr 1728), 1813 (arr 1925)

All stations were called at on all of these trains which went via Castleford and Knottingley.

No Sunday services are shown.

These give an example of what was the case 10 years prior to the OP query

Remarkably stable when compared with 12 years earlier, in fact a slight improvement with the Saturday Only short journey between Leeds and Castleford being replaced with an all week round trip over the entire route.

 

[IanD]

I just happen to have my summer 1988 table to hand. Scanned a couple of pages, sorry about the quality!

Table 32 shows 5 Leeds <> Goole services and some summer only Castleford stops.

Table 31 shows 7 York>Sheffield via Pontefract (M-S) with 3 on Sundays, and 6 Sheff>York with 3 on Sunday. Plus a seasonal Leicester<> Scarborough which doesn't seem to call at York on the return.

 

[mister-sparky]

Knottingley is served hourly from both Wakefield and Leeds, can't one of these be extended to Goole giving it an hourly service? Or does it really not justify that level of service?

 

[yorksrob]

The intermediate settlements may be small, but I‘m sure that they and Goole could justify something a bit more frequent!

 

[johnnychips]

It is funny how the mind plays tricks. I had a perception that the service was much better than the present, yet the previous posts show the Knottingley-Goole section was never wonderful.

 

[yorksrob]

It is funny how the mind plays tricks. I had a perception that the service was much better than the present, yet the previous posts show the Knottingley-Goole section was never wonderful.

At least with those timetables you could have a viable day out using the route. Compared to the situation today, I think it's a perfectly reasonable statement to say that the service was much better than the present.

 

[Welshman]

Table 31 shows 7 York>Sheffield via Pontefract (M-S) with 3 on Sundays, and 6 Sheff>York with 3 on Sunday. Plus a seasonal Leicester<> Scarborough which doesn't seem to call at York on the return.

Didn't that Leicester-Scarborough go down the coast via Filey & Bridlington, Beverley, the Hull avoiding-line, Brough, Selby and Gascoigne Wood, and therefore nowhere near York?

If you have the full timetable, perhaps you could check on Table 38.

 

[David Barrett]

What I did notice with the 1988 timetable as opposed to those of 1969 and 1982 was the arrival in Goole after 09.00 of the first service as opposed to the earlier timings in previous years. No wonder passenger use was low, with the loss of potential for journeys involving people working shop/office hours in Goole the prospect of there being hard core of regular daily users will have been non existant. An ominous portent for what was to come perhaps. I'm not hinting at timetable rigging of course, as I'm sure that British Railways wouldn't have done that, would they?

 

[johnnychips]

What's the bus service like from the other stations between Goole and Knottingley? Indeed between Goole and Leeds itself (if there is one)?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Indeed between Goole and Leeds itself (if there is one)?

Stagecoach X62 service (Leeds - Goole - Hull)

7 journeys each way...Monday to Saturday
2 journeys each way...Sunday

 

[David Barrett]

Stagecoach X62 service (Leeds - Goole - Hull)

7 journeys each way...Monday to Saturday
2 journeys each way...Sunday

Plus Arriva Service 400/401 from Selby to Goole: generally hourly during the core daytime period (07.00/19.00ish) operates via Snaith and Rawcliffe which have stations on the line under discussion.

 

[4SRKT]

I just happen to have my summer 1988 table to hand. Scanned a couple of pages, sorry about the quality!

Table 32 shows 5 Leeds <> Goole services and some summer only Castleford stops.

Table 31 shows 7 York>Sheffield via Pontefract (M-S) with 3 on Sundays, and 6 Sheff>York with 3 on Sunday. Plus a seasonal Leicester<> Scarborough which doesn't seem to call at York on the return.

What you can't see from this table 32 is that there was an hourly service at xx:05 to Castleford throughout the day (Castleford terminators were shown on table 34).

Basically when I was a yoof there was an hourly service to Cas, with one every three hours through to Goole. In the hour preceding the Goole there was a Knottingley terminator, and in the hour following the Goole there was a Cas out and back because the previous set had gone through to Goole and there was nothing to work back to Leeds in that slot. Hence the short working to Cas to maintain the hourly frequency in each direction.

 

[Mugby]

Am I correct in thinking that the service was cut to it's present level when Northern Spirit got into horrendous staffing difficulties and had to implement wholesale bustitution?

And the journeys which were cut were never reinstated?

 

[Buttsy]

The 75-76 timetable shows 6 Leeds - Goole services each way plus 1 short to Knottingley and another short to Castleford. It appears that this was the extent of Castleford's service at that time as the Leeds - Wakefield Kirkgate services went via Altofts.

 

[IanD]

Didn't that Leicester-Scarborough go down the coast via Filey & Bridlington, Beverley, the Hull avoiding-line, Brough, Selby and Gascoigne Wood, and therefore nowhere near York?

If you have the full timetable, perhaps you could check on Table 38.

Yes - you're right. Dep Scarborough 1310, calling at Filey 1335, Bridlington a1347 d1352. Can't find it in table 39 so looks like it was non-stop to Pontefract from there.

I was going to have a look to see where these odd services went! I'm sure I would have done this as soon as I bought the timetable in 1988, it's just slipped from my memory since then!

I was always fascinated by the odd services that called at Castleford during the summer as at the time they offered rare track in the area. Eg the Sat only York-Blackpool services I recall went via Copy Pit and maybe Brighouse in the early 80s before the regular service was introduced on that route.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What you can't see from this table 32 is that there was an hourly service at xx:05 to Castleford throughout the day (Castleford terminators were shown on table 34).

Basically when I was a yoof there was an hourly service to Cas, with one every three hours through to Goole. In the hour preceding the Goole there was a Knottingley terminator, and in the hour following the Goole there was a Cas out and back because the previous set had gone through to Goole and there was nothing to work back to Leeds in that slot. Hence the short working to Cas to maintain the hourly frequency in each direction.

In table 34 there's a twice hourly service to Castleford as the Barnsley/Sheffield services had been diverted away from Altofts, with Altofts having just 5 or so services each way.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

What's the bus service like from the other stations between Goole and Knottingley? Indeed between Goole and Leeds itself (if there is one)?

There is a service 488 which starts at Hut Green (near to Whitley Bridge) and serves all villages en route to Goole, the service more or less follows the line in question the only problem is that it runs Wednesdays only.

 

[wbbminerals]

What's the bus service like from the other stations between Goole and Knottingley? Indeed between Goole and Leeds itself (if there is one)?

150 Selby - Wakefield passes Whitley Bridge, Knottingley and Pontefract Monkhill. It then passes Featherstone and Wakefield Kirkgate. I know it's not from Goole but it still serves a lot of stations on this route.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

150 Selby - Wakefield passes Whitley Bridge, Knottingley and Pontefract Monkhill. It then passes Featherstone and Wakefield Kirkgate. I know it's not from Goole but it still serves a lot of stations on this route.

But only ONE of the stations that only has the limited service of the Leeds-Goole services. The fact that it serves Knottingley and Monkhill is largely irrelevant, as these locations have a (fairly) regular service to both Leeds and Wakefield. For the folk of Whitley Bridge the 150 bus is hardly a substitute for the train, as it serves neither Leeds nor Goole anyway. I wouldn't fancy interchanging to the train at either Knottingley (not the most, ahem, friendly locality!) or Monkhill (quite a walk from bus stop to platform, and not the most conveniently located station)- In fact I always thought it strange that GC call at Monkhill rather than Tanshelf which is far closer to the town centre, though I suppose platform lengths might be an issue... Then again, Mirfield P3 is fine for the 180s so I don't see why Tanshelf would be an issue. 180s have SDO, don't they?

 

[wbbminerals]

It is still of note in that it serves Whitley bridge though. The 180s do have SDO, indeed the platforms at Monkhill require it to be used as they are too short for all doors to be opened. At Monkhill it's only 5 minutes walk from the bus stop to the platform (same as Knottingley as the 150 goes down the road to Ferrybridge, not the one by the Railway pub).

 

[317 forever]

I caught a train from Castleford to Goole in August 2003. It was late morning, possibly 11.45ish, and I think I was the only passenger to stay on to Goole on that train! There were 3 trains a day at that stage I seem to recall.