Worcester trains fiasco - apparently

[Tomnick]

That already exists, in a roundabout sort of way. If necessary, something will be pinched to assist a failure clear of the running line - I understand that the ability for NR Control to request this and the means of compensating the operator involved is all part of the track access agreement. Perhaps someone else can add the details though (or tell me I'm wrong) - it's not something that I know a huge amount about.

I've been involved in two failed trains over the last few months, and in both cases assistance was rendered relatively quickly. One was a totally expired light engine being assisted in the rear by the following freight (just over ten miles at 10mph - so it still caused quite a delay), and the other was a DMU being assisted in the rear by a different TOC's DMU (with only about 25' delay to the failed train and minimal delay to the assisting train, despite the faff with assistance protection). It's not all bad!

 

[Monkey Magic]

All I can say is that the Guard made announcements once we were going giving everyone full details of where and how they could claim compensation.

There was a guy who had got on at Kingham to go to London but who had missed his meetings, he spoke to the guy in the ticket office, said that the quickest way would be to get the ticket seller on the train to cancel the sale. The passenger went and found the ticket seller, the ticket seller then cancelled the sale and he was refunded.

It was all very straightforward.

I can't comment about further down the line but everyone was very helpful.

I think (and I can't say because I didn't see this) that they did order some taxis for people who had urgent connections. They must have done something with the passengers because the train wasn't when it left Charlbury and normally the 7.30, 7.49, 8.30, 9.40 and 10.07 are all pretty full. Whereas if it had been the only way out of Charlbury I'd have expected it to be packed to the rafters.

I suspect though that the tracks through Charlbury are pretty smelly after the train was parked there for 2 and half hours with passengers using the loos all the way through that time.

What I am still unclear about is how an assisting loco was supposed to move an HST powercar which had its brakes jammed on?

 

[DarloRich]

Precisely

And no one was criticising the staff on the ground. This was the failure of a corporate body to provide the service passengers pay for. They were thus failing their paying customers as well as their own staff.

I know that the prevailing attitude on this forum is that the railway is never responsible for anything that happens on it, all reports unfavourable to the railway are the work of mendacious anti-rail journalists and that passengers should basically shut up and take their medicine.

I also know that anyone objecting to the above attitude is liable to attract a barrage of smug sarcasm from the same two or three people every time.

This may not have been a farce, but it fits the definition of "fiasco" pretty well. And saying that doesn't remotely imply criticism of anyone at the sharp end. It is what it is.

So any suggestions how it could be improved?

 

[Tomnick]

Apologies if my ramblings around assisting locos are confusing the issue - it's apparent now that such a contraption wouldn't have helped clear the line in this case.

 

[Monkey Magic]

I am pretty sure that if it had been any other kind of failure where it was possible to move the train then they would have brought a loco from either Didcot or proceeded with 1 powercar to Oxford.

In this situation it is really difficult to see what else they could have done, the only thing is that any trains from Worcester could I guess have been re-routed via Swindon (?)

I think that there was not really a better solution to what happened.

 

[jimm]

Thanks for the info everyone. What struck me was the apparent lack of communication back to stations further west. The trains just seemed to pile up behind one another at Ascott, presumably in the 'middle of nowhere, just a few miles behind the broken down one, at least this is what I read back from yesterday's Realtime Trains.

See this link (hope it works).

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...0&show_wtt=1&show_var=1&show_stp=1&show_can=1

I chose Oxford as one sees the effect on more local services too. Apart from the comms issue above, one sees the continued singling at Charlbury - Wolvercote as a major source of major delay, it appears.

Those business travellers would have missed their morning appointments and one just hopes there were no airport and Eurostar pax, but I expect there were.

Single track was not causing a delay - the train was in the station.

At the time the train got stranded, the halts train which follows it from Worcester would already have left Moreton-in-Marsh, while the next HST from Hereford was leaving Worcester - before anyone would have had any inkling of the severity of the problem.

I don't know where the second HST was stopped (Kingham?) but I do know that the halts train reversed to Ascott-under-Wychwood from the section signal at Shorthampton to meet taxis at Ascott.

And someone went under a train between Worcester and Cheltenham on Monday morning as well, so wasn't a diversion option that way even if the seriousness of the problem at Charlbury had been apparent the instant it happened.

One hopes that FGW will carry out a full post mortem, as one wonders whether pax for the later trains might not have been sent another way around, if timely info had been capable of being sent back. This is where your point ii) comes in, perhaps.

FGW already know what went wrong - something broke. Same as a water main broke yesterday on one of the main arterial roads in Oxford, which caused huge tailbacks in the afternoon peak on Monday and again yesterday morning as Thames Water were still trying to fix it even after working overnight. Probably meant people missed appointments there as well.

 

[transmanche]

Same as a water main broke yesterday on one of the main arterial roads in Oxford, which caused huge tailbacks in the afternoon peak on Monday and again yesterday morning as Thames Water were still trying to fix it even after working overnight. Probably meant people missed appointments there as well.

The difference being that motorists feel a modicum of control; they may be able to divert, turn around etc. Whereas passengers feel... well... impotent - and at the mercy of 'the railway'.

And thus people's reaction to the two situations will be vastly different.

 

[jimm]

The difference being that motorists feel a modicum of control; they may be able to divert, turn around etc. Whereas passengers feel... well... impotent - and at the mercy of 'the railway'.

And thus people's reaction to the two situations will be vastly different.

Divert? In an Oxford rush-hour? Drivers in control? Don't make me laugh. It's bad enough when there aren't any burst water mains. I can assure you I never feel very in control if I have to drive and take 30 minutes to complete the last mile after taking 30 minutes to cover 25 miles to the edge of Oxford on a day of normal traffic. When faced with that, you most assuredly do feel impotent.

And what else do you expect FGW to do? This train had a serious technical fault which took a long time to repair - a period of time which could not be predicted with any accuracy. Taxis were provided when they became available but at that time of the morning in the Cotswolds, virtually every taxi and coach available locally is already out on the road on school runs until 9am.

 

[HSTEd]

HSTEd - what use would a 15mph loco be, probably some distance away? A common, and probably quicker, response would be to nobble the loco off another train to assist. In fairness, and despite my earlier words, Control are usually pretty good at arranging this sort of thing in my experience.

Well if they were every 17 miles that means that at most the locomotive is 8.5 miles away from the trouble and could thus transit there in ~30 minutes even at 15mph :P
And I believe some Class 08s were rigged for 20mph running and then there are Class 09s that were capable of 27.5mph and could thus transit 8.5 miles in about 20 minutes.

If the locos are cheap enough you know....
And as to grabbing other locomotives, pretty soon the only loco hauled trains on British railways will be freight pretty much.
And there aren't many of those.

 

[dzug2]

I don't know where the second HST was stopped (Kingham?) but I do know that the halts train reversed to Ascott-under-Wychwood from the section signal at Shorthampton to meet taxis at Ascott.

No it had left Kingham - it stopped somewhere near Ascott or Shipton. So presumably the halts train had deposited whoever wanted to get off and moved forward again

 

[Tomnick]

Well if they were every 17 miles that means that at most the locomotive is 8.5 miles away from the trouble and could thus transit there in ~30 minutes even at 15mph :P
And I believe some Class 08s were rigged for 20mph running and then there are Class 09s that were capable of 27.5mph and could thus transit 8.5 miles in about 20 minutes.

If the locos are cheap enough you know....
And as to grabbing other locomotives, pretty soon the only loco hauled trains on British railways will be freight pretty much.
And there aren't many of those.

Ah, you're running with this 'every 17 miles' idea. Of course, you'll have to provide drivers every 17 miles too, unless you're going to taxi them out from their depot - which takes time - or expect the driver of the failure to fetch them themselves (and start them from cold, and prep them, and conduct themselves onto the failure - which is pushing the rules a bit too far for my liking). You're going to have to get them back to a depot for exams and maintenance every so often too. By the time you've done that, I think it's quicker to recess a freight somewhere and use the loco off that to at least clear the line!

 

[jimm]

Well if they were every 17 miles that means that at most the locomotive is 8.5 miles away from the trouble and could thus transit there in ~30 minutes even at 15mph :P
And I believe some Class 08s were rigged for 20mph running and then there are Class 09s that were capable of 27.5mph and could thus transit 8.5 miles in about 20 minutes.

If the locos are cheap enough you know....
And as to grabbing other locomotives, pretty soon the only loco hauled trains on British railways will be freight pretty much.
And there aren't many of those.

None of which is relevant in this case. The HST could not pressurise the brake system, so it wasn't going anywhere, whatever locos there were seven, 17 or 70 miles away.

 

[HowardGWR]

None of which is relevant in this case. The HST could not pressurise the brake system, so it wasn't going anywhere, whatever locos there were seven, 17 or 70 miles away.

Thanks, it seems the dreadful consequences were unavoidable.

It seems that the line is in problems again this morning only with a train going the other way. I feel sorry for all, staff and pax alike.

Can someone confirm where the single line starts, from the western end, please? I was using Street View but those photos may be OOD.

Later -the info is on the Wikipedia page for the Cotswold Line, apols.

 

[dzug2]

It's single track from Norton Junction to a little to the west of Evesham and again from just east of Charlbury to Wolvercote Junction

 

[signalman455]

Fiasco :roll: yes that is the right word for a few delays caused by a failed train.

Guess what? Trains break down. Deal with it. it is hardly a fiasco :roll:

That is a very peculiar attitude DarloRich. 'A few delays' 'Deal with it'?? Privatisation was brought in to 'deliver a World Class Railway' but 150 minutes late for several trains are just a few delays?

 

[jon0844]

What has this to do with privatisation? For one, it was a pre-privatised train. Would BR have had some magic solution?

 

[455driver]

What has this to do with privatisation? For one, it was a pre-privatised train. Would BR have had some magic solution?

They might have had a few locos (and drivers) available nearby.

This is simply because there were a lot more locos around then, plus the drivers were allowed to hit things a lot harder thrn than we are now.

 

[ainsworth74]

They might have had a few locos (and drivers) available nearby.

Though I thought we'd established that having a rescue loco wouldn't have helped in this case due to it being a brake issue

 

[HSTEd]

Well if you have sufficient brake effort, couldn't you just manually pin all the brakes in the off position and move it as if it was an unbraked freight train?

 

[ainsworth74]

I'm not sure if you could do that with passengers still on board. Also it still depends on you being able to release the failed brake.

 

[HSTEd]

I'm not sure if you could do that with passengers still on board. Also it still depends on you being able to release the failed brake.

Was the fault an actual problem with the brake?
The comments further up the thread suggest there was a problem where one of the power cars was refusing to allow the train line to pressurise, preventing the air brakes from releasing as required.

If you just went down the train pinning all the brakes off this should not be a problem.

 

[edwin_m]

Running with an power car or any other vehicle unbraked at the end of the train really isn't a good idea.

 

[Llanigraham]

Well if you have sufficient brake effort, couldn't you just manually pin all the brakes in the off position and move it as if it was an unbraked freight train?

No you can't.

Was the fault an actual problem with the brake?
The comments further up the thread suggest there was a problem where one of the power cars was refusing to allow the train line to pressurise, preventing the air brakes from releasing as required.

If you just went down the train pinning all the brakes off this should not be a problem.

Brakes were jammed ON.
As said earlier in thread.

 

[martybabes]

Fiasco :roll: yes that is the right word for a few delays caused by a failed train.

Guess what? Trains break down. Deal with it. it is hardly a fiasco :roll:

I take it the above was not taken from the press release of the TOC's public relations department...

 

[HSTEd]

Brakes were jammed ON.
As said earlier in thread.

So were the brakes jammed physically on or were they only on because the train line would not pressurise?
(I find it hard to believe that all the brakes were physically jammed?)

Vehicles tend to have facilities to allow the brakes to be pinned off, otherwise how would you move them around depots? Require the train lines to be pressurised every time? What happens if the vehicle has a leak in its air reservoir or air line equipment?

 

[W230]

Well if you have sufficient brake effort, couldn't you just manually pin all the brakes in the off position and move it as if it was an unbraked freight train?

It's all a bit confusing here.

I can only speak for units here but if the parking brake is stuck on and won't release with air then fitters would normally come and 'wind off' the parking brake. I think we were told that the parking brakes on our units are equivalent to around 1bar brake pressure, though I have no doubt it would be different in a loco set up but effectively could be driven with parking brakes on one coach operating (not a great idea though). But maybe the fitters couldn't wind the off or it was a different problem.

But if we're talking about a dragging air brake etc then it's a different scenario. The brakes on that coach would have to be isolated and the train would not be allowed to stay in service if it was the last coach - it becomes a swinger...

 

[signalman455]

Perhaps the people that continually use words like farce and fiasco without knowing all the facts and not in some cases being there can take a step back and spare a thought for the hard working rail staff that every day try and keep the trains moving in difficult circumstances and without recognition.

Things go wrong in the rail industry and other industries as well but it seems the railway is an easy target for some ill informed people that know little or nothing about how the railway really works.

Give us some slack now and again as rest assured when things do go wrong people do work hard to restore things back to normal safely and quickly.

What we are looking at here is how the privatised railway works. Lacking in facilities for getting out of trouble.

 

[jimm]

What we are looking at here is how the privatised railway works. Lacking in facilities for getting out of trouble.

No, what we're looking at here is a broken piece of equipment in the brake system, which meant the brake pipe could not be pressurised. So that train was going nowhere, whether it was privatised or nationalised, until a fitter came and sorted it out - or did BR issue drivers with a magic wand?

 

[bnsf734]

No, what we're looking at here is a broken piece of equipment in the brake system, which meant the brake pipe could not be pressurised. So that train was going nowhere, whether it was privatised or nationalised, until a fitter came and sorted it out - or did BR issue drivers with a magic wand?

I think they call it a big hammer!

 

[455driver]

I think they call it a big hammer!

I do know of one driver who, when the class 47 he was driving developed a big air leak, walked to a motor factors and asked for a jubilee clip "about that big" (making a large circle with both hands), the bloke asked what it was for so the driver just took the bloke outside the shop, and pointing at the 47 merrily blowing off, and said "that". The bloke put 3 of his largest jubilee clips together and the driver used them to stem the leak and off he went.

Now we would need permission from "control" in triplicate before leaving the train, such is progress.