Luggage space on 390's

[TOCDriver]

I'm not usually a long distance passenger on other TOC's stock but I was this weekend when I decided to take a trip to Glasgow and see some friends I hadn't seen in a long time. One thing that struck me was the amount of bad feeling generated between people when people were boarding the 390 with luggage that, quite frankly, was often heavier and bulkier than those very same people carrying it. Blocking of the gangways occured everytime we reached a mainline station with people struggling to move their luggage into a convenient position. I think it's about time we brought back a luggage van, like the old days, and people with large luggage should board there, drop it off and then go and find their seats.. What do others think?

 

[simon mouland]

Not a bad idea to reinstate the old fashion idea of a luggage van but, would drastically increase station dwell times and i know this may upset some but personally i do think people do bring way too much with them nowadays!.Not defending lack of luggage space on modern stock but really go on a flight or any sort of long distance train journey and see just how much stuff people bring with them now!

 

[TOCDriver]

Not a bad idea to reinstate the old fashion idea of a luggage van but, would drastically increase station dwell times and i know this may upset some but personally i do think people do bring way too much with them nowadays!.Not defending lack of luggage space on modern stock but really go on a flight or any sort of long distance train journey and see just how much stuff people bring with them now!

I was absolutely gobsmacked at the size of some of their luggage, particularly that of young women. Something needs to be done because there certainly is not enough space on modern stock to accommodate all of this luggage.

 

[Yew]

However, these people are often well below the limits on the NRCOC. And don't forget that these days you must 'keep your luggage with you at all times'.

 

[Morden Via CHX]

Personally don't think it is a sensible idea to take more luggage than you can reasonably carry.

 

[David Goddard]

Guilty as Charged M'Lord! When we first went Euston to Glasgow we booked seats J2 and J5 (next to the luggage rack) and made sure we were at the front of the queue when boarding commenced! We don't travel light and our two cases filled said luggage rack.

 

[DarloRich]

I was absolutely gobsmacked at the size of some of their luggage, particularly that of young women. Something needs to be done because there certainly is not enough space on modern stock to accommodate all of this luggage.

perhaps more sensible design is required when developing modern stock. It shouldn't be beyond the wit of man to create luggage stacks or luggage storage spaces in a train. We used to e able to do it...........

 

[edwin_m]

Most suitcases now have wheels, and most major stations now have step-free access so it is hardly necessary to lift them off the ground, so it is easier to "travel heavy" than a few years ago. Concerns about theft mean the traditional guard's van is no longer an option, and indeed many people worry about putting bags in a rack in the vestibule. At the same time the reduction in table seating also means fewer of the useful spaces between back-to-back seats and underneath your own seat, and in the likes of Pendolinos and Voyagers the overhead racks are too small even to accept items that would pass as cabin baggage on a flight.

I think Midland Mainline may have been on to something with their HSTs, taking out four seats to put a large rack in the centre of each coach. Racks in this position may also encourage faster boarding, because someone trying to put a large suitcase in a rack near the doors (often having to re-arrange several smaller bags) often means the people behind have to wait on the platform.

 

[DarloRich]

I think the 390's do have particular problems with regard to the overhead bins. Because of the carriage design they are smaller than on many trains and so can accept only smaller bags.

 

[Geezertronic]

This has been discussed in the Pendolino refurb thread and I am still of the opinion that people won't use luggage vans but like to keep their luggage near them for fear of them being stolen

 

[northwichcat]

Personally don't think it is a sensible idea to take more luggage than you can reasonably carry.

Has anyone said people do this? You're expected to be able to load your own luggage on to the train unless you're disabled or someone you're travelling with helps you. Many of the large cases used by female passengers mentioned are probably mainly full of clothes so aren't heavy even if they look big.

Hypothetically, a 100 people going between Liverpool and Paris could all book themselves on to the same Liverpool-London train and going to Paris they would need more than just a backpack. Moving Eurostar from Waterloo to St Pancras was supposed to make it easier for people from the North and Midlands to travel to Europe by train.

 

[eMeS]

I'm into long-lens bird photography, and so never even think of travelling by train. My gear, especially the tripod, takes up as much space as my clothes, but is much heavier, and I normally travel in an Astra Estate. When I do use the trains for sight-seeing trips to London from MKC, I restrict myself to what I can carry and look after easily.

 

[Cliveblackpool]

Compartment trains had huge net like luggage racks above your seats as well as the Guard's van. The limit for luggage in the 70's was a hundredweight (cwt) There was help on hand as well, porters etc.

 

[jeemac]

I often make long-distance trips with a lot of luggage for business - apart from the fact that I enjoy travelling by rail, and can get a lot of work done during the journey - taking it with me on flights would cost an arm and a leg!

On several recent well-loaded trips on East Coast HSTs, there have been announcements asking passengers to use the luggage van to prevent gangways getting blocked. I was happy to drop off a couple of exhibition banners I was carrying, but compliance by most passengers wasn't great.

I remember as a student in the 80s regularly dropping off luggage in the guard's van without giving it a second thought - and I can't see it being less secure that dropping it off at an airport check-in and picking your case off a carousel at the other end! :roll:

 

[martybabes]

I remember as a student in the 80s regularly dropping off luggage in the guard's van without giving it a second thought - and I can't see it being less secure that dropping it off at an airport check-in and picking your case off a carousel at the other end! :roll:

I can. Intermediate stops allow passengers to collect their luggage and anyone else's. I would much rather store my suitcases where I can see them at all times. That way I can ensure they are not liberated, intentionally or not, by others.

At an airport, luggage is checked in and then secured until the carousel at the destination airport. Very different from train travel.

 

[Goatboy]

This happens a lot on XC as well - its quite common to find a huge pile of luggage that you often need to climb over or step around simply to board the train.

 

[broadgage]

Luggage space and table seats (which provide luggage space between the seat backs) are now VERY last century.

If a customer has a grossly excessive amount of luggage then it would be reasonable to charge extra for this.
But trains do really need to be able to accomadate reasonable amounts of luggage, say an average of one large or two small items per head. Some will have more than that, and others less.

On busy routes, I believe that luggage vans should be re-introduced. The risk of theft could be much reduced by simple two part serialy numbered sticky labels.
Customers wishing to carry heavy luggage should be required to pay say £5 for a sticky label, one half of which is applied to the luggage and the other half retained by the customer.
To reclaim the item they must produce the label.
The van should be locked between stations, so would only need staffing at stops.
The say £5 per item would help pay an extra employee.

 

[jopsuk]

On East Coast arounc Christmas they do run a free checked-in luggage service. They simplify things by making it for eg passengers travelling between Kings Cross and Edinburgh only- even if the train is going further- and I think they even insist that you use it- they check your tickets on the way onto the platform. This frees up space for those going to other destinations and boarding at intermediate stops. Trying to run it to and from intermediate stops would be a nightmare.

 

[edwin_m]

Eurostar and (I think) some domestic TOCs do a luggage in advance service which goes by road. You either have to send your luggage ahead of travel or receive it some time after you have arrived, which isn't always very convenient.

 

[jopsuk]

The problem is that on average weekdays, when the trains are full (even Intercity ones at peak times) the majority of passengers have little luggage. Business travellers tend to travel light. So the smallish luggage racks and overheads are fine. What they want are seats.

So with the Pendolinos the layout is optimised (within the restrictions of crash worthiness, accesible loos etc) for maximum seating. This means mainl airline and little luggage space. The 444s are another example. 11 car Pendolinos, or 10 car 444s, are as long as can possibly fit on their routes with the current infrastructure. The 11 car Pendos especially. Any extension would require platform extension, and at terminals this is often not possible due to the station throat.

So, what with being fixed formations, the ToCs have a choice- do they spec the trains for the seasonal holiday travellers, or for the commuters/business travellers that bring them the bulk of their fares and would quite like a seat?

East Coast (and others) benefits from having "legacy" stock with guards vans that are hard/impossible to convert to passenger use. But they struggle as well.

 

[Mikey C]

The overhead luggage rack on 390s is particularly thin, with only very small bags and cases fitting, which doesn't help things either. If they installed them a few inches lower, maybe more people would be able to use them for smaller bags, thus freeing up space in the larger luggage racks?

 

[jon0844]

Any overhead racks on a train should be able to fit airline carry on bags (as in accepting the 'standard' size adopted by most manufacturers).

That said, new trains with 'floating' seats could perhaps have some form of divider on the floor (or under the seat, to be tidier and keep the floor open for cleaning) to allow a carry on bag to be put under the seat - and pushed back (but not then going straight through to the person behind).

 

[gordonthemoron]

Any overhead racks on a train should be able to fit airline carry on bags (as in accepting the 'standard' size adopted by most manufacturers).

That said, new trains with 'floating' seats could perhaps have some form of divider on the floor (or under the seat, to be tidier and keep the floor open for cleaning) to allow a carry on bag to be put under the seat - and pushed back (but not then going straight through to the person behind).

infront, not behind, like on an airplane

 

[northwichcat]

Any overhead racks on a train should be able to fit airline carry on bags (as in accepting the 'standard' size adopted by most manufacturers).

Airlines don't always impose weight limits on cabin baggage, only size limits in some cases. Train operators specifically say not to put heavy items on overhead racks.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So with the Pendolinos the layout is optimised (within the restrictions of crash worthiness, accesible loos etc) for maximum seating.

I'm not sure about that. The standard class seating is lower density than on the refurbished 158s and HSTs.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

infront, not behind, like on an airplane

The seats all face the same way on a plane which is rarely the case on a train. There are also some seats on trains that are longitudinal (not just on trains with all longitudinal seats.)

 

[jon0844]

infront, not behind, like on an airplane

I think on a train you'd need to put it under your seat (thus not really behind as I said!), not in front. Otherwise it wouldn't work for seats around tables.

 

[DarloRich]

This happens a lot on XC as well - its quite common to find a huge pile of luggage that you often need to climb over or step around simply to board the train.

just kick it out of the way like i do

 

[The Barlow Boy]

The problem is that a combination of a TOC ordering trains and the designers of the trains simply don't take into account the luggage requirements of passengers. A fine example are the Southern's trains. The luggage space is virtually zero. An up Portsmouth/Bognor semi that stops at Gatwick - Redhill - Croydon etc departing off platform 1 at Gatwick can have the punters unable to gain entry to the train at Redhill's platform 2. In pre-privatisation days and in slammer time this was never a problem of course because the only trains advertised for London were the Gatwick Expresses to separate the airline punters. Similarly, the only down trains at Victoria advertised for Gatwick were the Gatwick Expresses.
Non of the fast trains were advertised for Clapham Junction either to keep short commuters off them but that's another story.

 

[jon0844]

365s have a pretty good provision for bags, but most people seem unaware that these areas exist (and some think they're just a rather funky type of seat!).

Heathrow Express obviously wins for the best provision, but surely it isn't just people heading to or from an airport that need room for bags? I am always surprised that luggage isn't considered more important on trains - and the use of clever design to make use of space that doesn't have to impact heavily on seating/standing room.

That means suitable overhead storage (strong enough for heavy bags), better use of spaces behind/between seats, storage underneath, and some luggage racks for large bags (look at a 319 and you can see that if designed in, you can have room for a few large bags at the expense of just one seat. And then there's the tip-down seats, so you have more seats at peak times when there are going to be less leisure travellers with big luggage.

For Intercity trains, I like the sound of bag storage in the middle of a carriage to aid boarding time (not holding people up) and the added feeling of security - given you might not expect as many people to chance nicking a bag from the middle of a carriage, instead of tucked away at the end nearest the exit.

 

[jopsuk]

I'm not sure about that. The standard class seating is lower density than on the refurbished 158s and HSTs

Is it actually lower density- which would imply better seat pitch (and thus legroom) or just that by the time the larger doors and vestibules etc are included there's less seating despite a similar length carriage?

Putting luggage racks in the crumple zone parts (as on 365s) is smart, but would work less well on Intercity type stock as that means they're beside the door and out of sight- not great for security.

 

[dcsprior]

I think on a train you'd need to put it under your seat (thus not really behind as I said!), not in front. Otherwise it wouldn't work for seats around tables.

Ah, that explains the announcements I heard when I had the misfortune to have to make quite a few long-distance journeys on cross-country "please place you luggage in the overhead racks or under your seat" - I remember thinking at the time that this wasn't great as putting luggage under your own seat encroached into legroom of the person behind, but can see why you wouldn't always have a seat in front.

Most long-distance travel I do is on East Coast, and most of this is during the week when there's not much demand for luggage space. Around Christmas and Easter, there are staff on the platform at King's Cross taking luggage from those who're going as far as Edinburgh - this takes about half of the luggage out of the passenger coaches, without the staff having to faff around at intermediate stations. Around Bank Holidays, and at weekends, they don't normally do this - it can be challenging to fit your luggage in the rack, but it is still generally doable.