Catering on New Cross Country

[332 > 444]

It shouldve been followed by a "but we'll build more carriages for you!" Thats good news though.

 

[djw1981]

What say do Bombadier have? Surely the ROSCO has the say (in this case, Angel Trains)

 

[adambro]

It shouldve been followed by a "but we'll build more carriages for you!" Thats good news though.

Indeed! I've never really had too much trouble with overcrowded Voyagers though to be honest but I guess it very much depends on where and when you are travelling.

 

[Jim]

What say do Bombadier have? Surely the ROSCO has the say (in this case, Angel Trains)

Bombardier probabally would refuse to maintain modified versions, as remember, they are the builder and maitenence contrctor

 

[Turbostar]

Indeed! I've never really had too much trouble with overcrowded Voyagers though to be honest but I guess it very much depends on where and when you are travelling.

Well, travelled on the 10.25 yesterday (11 Aug) to Dundee, from Plymouth to Tiverton Parkway, & it was packed when it left Plymouth, was a Super Voyager (5 cars), ended up standing to Tiverton. Apart from dropping off a few passengers at Totnes, Newton Abbot, Exeter St. Davids, & Tiverton Parkway, there was quite a few passengers getting on at these stations. Would have made sense being in the holiday season, a friday/weekend service, & a Scottish service, to add another unit.

Mart

 

[87015]

The idea of ripping the shops out as now been scrapped, because Bombardier won't let Arriva do it to their Voyagers.

Well Arriva, here is a prime oppurtunity to really make a difference to passengers. Tell Bombadier where to stick their Voyager rubbish, get the chequebook out and order something which is actually suitable for the majority of services it will operate. I'm fairly sure the DfT and the Roscos can't stop a private company ordering rolling stock if Arriva are prepared to fund it... I will dream on

 

[djw1981]

That would create a fleet of DEMU's available for any TOC who wanted to boost their service (FGW) suited for nice Intercity running (TPE to Glasgow), ideal for replacing the old method of units in multiple (FSR Glasgow/Edinburgh to Aberdeen/Inverness).

But what would Arriva buy? Pioneers/Meridians? I suspect we my have to wait for the HST2 hybrids to replace HST / Voyagers / Class 91 trains...

 

[tedted]

Last Wednesday, I had a 4-hour journey from Edinburgh to Chesterfield. My sandwich that I had prepared the night before was stale, however I didn't realise this until I was on the train. By Darlington I was extremely hungry, so I bought a soup from the shop, because a) I didn't want to wait half an hour until York and b) I didn't want to risk missing my train as a result of grabbing something from York station.

In short, the shop is extremely useful, so keep it.

 

[devon_metro]

Well, travelled on the 10.25 yesterday (11 Aug) to Dundee, from Plymouth to Tiverton Parkway, & it was packed when it left Plymouth, was a Super Voyager (5 cars), ended up standing to Tiverton. Apart from dropping off a few passengers at Totnes, Newton Abbot, Exeter St. Davids, & Tiverton Parkway, there was quite a few passengers getting on at these stations. Would have made sense being in the holiday season, a friday/weekend service, & a Scottish service, to add another unit.

Mart

In simple - Virgin don't consider this section of the route important and don't have enough units. I know the train you refer to and I have never seen it quiet. Even during winter.

 

[voyagerdude220]

and don't have enough units. .

But Liam, Mart travelled yesterday, at a time when:

a) There's engineering work on some sections of the network, which reduces the amount of Voyagers needed to run around.

-but most importantly:-
b) The MML & GNER HSTs were running off course, releasing more Voyagers, to allow double-sets to form some services.

I think that the majority of doubles which enter the South West seem to be running to/from Paignton.

The 07:50 Glasgow Central to Paignton via Carlisle and Preston was a supermarket yesterday, with 10-carriages.

It's a shame the New Cross Country franchise won't be running Crewe-Glasgow/Edinburgh, as I would've liked to see HSTs running along the WCML (Or Manchester Picc for that matter).

Reading on the New XC website, i think it says that Arriva will get 77 220/221's. I wonder if Arriva will be able to run at least a few services with double-sets, on weekdays, not just weekends, when they take over?

 

[devon_metro]

Regardless the fact that they are using 4 and 5 car trains on such long distance routes is absolutly criminal! Whether or not they are doubled they have to have more staff in order to utilise both potions of the train which in effect pushes up costs. If they same frequency of trains was run with a 7 car Voyager equivelant (1 First Class + 1 Buffet/Standard + 4 standard + 1 quiet coach) things would be much better.

 

[virginjon]

Reading on the New XC website, i think it says that Arriva will get 77 220/221's. I wonder if Arriva will be able to run at least a few services with double-sets, on weekdays, not just weekends, when they take over?

Arriva will get 57 of the 77 220/221's from Virgin.
Virgin West Coast will keep 20 221's from Virgin Cross Country. These will eventually have an extra sixth coach added. Half standard, half First Class, with the option of it becoming easily declassified into full standard, when First Class is quiet.

 

[schmoo_smith]

get rid of 220/1's and bring back hst's and provide a full restraunt service, worse thing they did getting rid of the hst's

 

[First ScotRail]

Arriva will get 57 of the 77 220/221's from Virgin.
Virgin West Coast will keep 20 221's from Virgin Cross Country. These will eventually have an extra sixth coach added. Half standard, half First Class, with the option of it becoming easily declassified into full standard, when First Class is quiet.

And they will recive a refurb to be similar to the pendolinos.

 

[thefab444]

What rather ****es me off is the South West services get Double Vomits and HSTs during the summer. What do we get? Even less chance of anything other than a 4/5 car Vomit.

 

[devon_metro]

So you suggest we don't get 10/8 car vomits?

 

[Bonemaster]

I dont understand all the fuss about the abolition of the shop anyway, most journeys on Cross Country are surprising short.

I for one dont use this service that sells overpriced, undertasted cardboard food, or tea that tastes nothing like tea

 

[me123]

I for one dont use this service that sells overpriced, undertasted cardboard food, or tea that tastes nothing like tea

I agree with that statement for the most part; I very rarely buy onboard food except a cup of Scotrail's lovely tea. (no sarcasm, BTW) I will be travelling with Virgin on Friday between Motherwell and Edinburgh and will not use the catering services, but if I were travelling all the way to Penzance on the Voyager, I would definately prefer a shop to a trolley which, in my experience, only clutters up the train when it's busy.

It also lets passengers get up for a wee walk, reducing the risk of a DVT.

 

[jd]

Removing the shop would be a drop in the ocean. Voyagers I travel on are regularly crowded to the point of becoming a safety risk. I have witnessed TMs having to physically push people off the train as there is no room for them. Replacing the shop with luggage racks, or even more seating, would provide nowhere near enough space required during the peaks. Voyagers really need at least two more coaches, and that is the only solution to the problem. Personally, I'd remove the shop and replace it with luggage space (as Voyagers do lack severely in that area too). I'd then add three or more new carriages, of which one would have a larger shop than previously.

 

[Bonemaster]

Removing the shop would be a drop in the ocean. Voyagers I travel on are regularly crowded to the point of becoming a safety risk. I have witnessed TMs having to physically push people off the train as there is no room for them. Replacing the shop with luggage racks, or even more seating, would provide nowhere near enough space required during the peaks. Voyagers really need at least two more coaches, and that is the only solution to the problem. Personally, I'd remove the shop and replace it with luggage space (as Voyagers do lack severely in that area too). I'd then add three or more new carriages, of which one would have a larger shop than previously.

That is a rather simplistic view devoid of any economic cycle knowledge, demand analysis, or even a knowledge of the most simple things that could be done to even out passenger numbers.

Simply re-timetabling to a large extent will help, with Voyager services timetabled to coincide at New Street has knock on effects, and the fact that when operation princess came into being other services were simply put back to follow the Voyagers, the problem being that 2 services now follow each other with a very small timegap. To give a real example the 07:23 Voyager from Coventry leaves 18 minutes after the last service to new street, 2 trains follow it up the line within 10 minutes, the result, 1 rampacked Voyager and 1 empty semi fast service and an empty slow service, it is much cheaper to recast a timetable than buy so many extra coaches that will travel empty when the economy cools

 

[Tom]

So you suggest we don't get 10/8 car vomits?

I would suggest it's evened out so that every other service is doubled up. Would certainly help capacity down to Bournemouth - methinks the best candidates would be 0846/1046/1146/1246 and perhaps the 1546.

 

[devon_metro]

That would be good but thats the sort of times that the double vomits need to be down here so would take one heck of diagramming.

 

[Tom]

Perhaps so - but surely Virgin should take a keen interest in both routes rather than the Great Western area being as greedy as they are...

 

[devon_metro]

Thats us with 5 car trains as standard and brand new stock with air con!

 

[Tom]

I'm sure on Summer Saturdays with the HSTs running (and perhaps more emphasis on "higher capacity" trains running for the summer season) that the South West does in no way require the amount of 2xVoyager that they get. The Voyagers that run to Bournemouth during the Summer to be quite honest can be described as WedgeEx for EVERY. SINGLE. SERVICE.

 

[voyagerdude220]

The majority of the time i've been on an overcrowded Voyager, it would have been fine, with just one or two extra carriages added on.

That was, until I encountered last Friday's 14:46 Bournemouth to Dunbar. It was heavily overcrowded Reading-Birmingham New Street, with quite a few passengers alighting at Birmingham.

The 10:10 Glasgow Central to Penzance used to be booked for a double set down to Plymouth, where the rear set would uncouple, but it's now usually formed of a Super Voyager 221. It sometimes produced a double, but never does anymore. Also, the 09:30 Penzance to Glasgow Central used to have a Voyager added to the front? at Plymouth every few days.

IMO, VXC should have kept a few electric MK3 sets, with 87/90's, refurbished/upgraded the condition of the carriages, and run them on Manchester-Birmingham, Edinburgh/Glasgow-Birmingham via WCML services, in order to release a number of Voyagers, to be able to have more double sets on VXC services.

Why isn't there any double-sets on weekdays anymore, as there used to be a very small quantity of doubles, up until a year or two ago, and they just seemed to not appear anymore.

Apart from the 07:03 Birmingham to Edinburgh via York /14:05 return, is there any other services which can sometimes produce a double? When the 06:15 Bristol to Edinburgh got changed from running via the ECML, to WCML, I read in the RAIL magazine, that it was booked as a double set, mostly because it now returns as the 12:52 Edinburgh to Bournemouth via Preston, but I've only ever once seen it formed of 8/9 carriages.

 

[devon_metro]

Some of the evening double sets to Paignton are silly as I have sat on a table with 4 others in the carriage. I've often seen the morning services north full from Newton Abbot. Bournemouth obv does need more capacity but its not the westcountrys fault that Virgin ordered shyte trains!

 

[support-uk-rail]

It dissapoints me that aXC want to close the shops on many trains. I enjoy always having the option of WHEN I WANT A REFRESHMENT OR A MAGAZINER, I hate the possibility of HEY, DUDE, YOU STARVIN'? SORRY, MAN, IT'S 25 MINUTES UNTIL THE TROLLEY COMES ROUND AGAIN.

 

[voyagerdude220]

It dissapoints me that aXC want to close the shops on many trains. I enjoy always having the option of WHEN I WANT A REFRESHMENT OR A MAGAZINER, I hate the possibility of HEY, DUDE, YOU STARVIN'? SORRY, MAN, IT'S 25 MINUTES UNTIL THE TROLLEY COMES ROUND AGAIN.

Exactly!!
I had this problem on a FGW 158 last week- I was starving, wanted a sandwich or something along those lines, but the trolley was obviously stuck at the other end of the train, and when it did get to me, they had run out of sandwiches...

Liam- Are you reffering to weekday, or weekend double-sets?

It's not VT's fault that the DFT or whoever it was (can't remember) denied us money/permission, to make 6/7-car Voyagers.

 

[me123]

I'm looking forward to my journey tommorrow, when I will get a cup of tea on Virgin and FSR to/from Edinburgh respectively. On the voyager, I'll be able to get it when I want it. On the 170, I'll have to wait and see if it comes around.

FSR do usually provide an excellent trolley service for passengers, although I would rather have the shop.