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Depot driver salary?
- Thread starter Layaboutlarry
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Mate that is harsh and uncalled for! Bev might be a little over enthusiast about his job in the eyes of some ppl but I SERVELY doubt your child could shunt trains around a depot safely. You clearly have no respect for the Depot Driver grade.
Yes an I've pointed out to Bev that he is being a bit ott but your post was very harsh suggesting his job could be done by a child.
Silv1983
Member
You're taking that literally. I think it was meant as hyperbole... :roll:
carriageline
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I do have some respect for Bev, he paints the role to look a quite interesting job (although, I'm not a driver in any sense, so I wouldn't know), and he is prepared to die in protecting the name of Depot Driver. He seems passionate, which is something the railway needs.
But saying it IS the best job on the railway, is absurd. But then, under the same breath, talking about people's opinions that their job is better, and states his as fact. Very weird way to think. I can think of a few jobs I would enjoy more, and I think are better.
I think he doesn't realise there is more to railways than driving. People who work in control, planning etc are on a wage very comparable to his. And they seem like good jobs. Recently visited a busy PSB in London, and that seemed a very good job too.
It takes all sorts, but ramming your opinion down people's throats as facts is the wrong way to go.
I don't truly believe there is a "best" job. Even in the "outside" world, as everyone has different interests, and want different things.
But saying it IS the best job on the railway, is absurd. But then, under the same breath, talking about people's opinions that their job is better, and states his as fact. Very weird way to think. I can think of a few jobs I would enjoy more, and I think are better.
I think he doesn't realise there is more to railways than driving. People who work in control, planning etc are on a wage very comparable to his. And they seem like good jobs. Recently visited a busy PSB in London, and that seemed a very good job too.
It takes all sorts, but ramming your opinion down people's throats as facts is the wrong way to go.
I don't truly believe there is a "best" job. Even in the "outside" world, as everyone has different interests, and want different things.
Gets rather boring when the bloke claims he has the best job on the railway! And to claim he should be earning several thousand more beggars belief, for what shunting buses around a yard at 5 mph?? wonder had he got a mainline drivers job like he tried to if any of the rubbish that's comes out would be on this forum,I'm very sure he would have had the best mainline drivers job on the railway if he had made the cut.
Beveridges
Established Member
MDD as said is the best job in my opinion. On development days I have looked at countless other jobs, from mainline driving, control, signalling, depot opps team leader, fitters roles, etc - cant see me enjoying any of them as much as MDD.
As for a child being able to do MDD ?! Most inane comment I have heard in a long time. It doesn't surprise me, seeing who the author was !
To put the skill level of MDD into perspective. Even I find it challenging. Even now, I still have to think to solve different problems all the time. There are still moves from other than the leading end which I still struggle to judge. The passout was tougher than the psychometric tests in every way; something which only 40% of the uk population over 21 can pass!
As for a child being able to do MDD ?! Most inane comment I have heard in a long time. It doesn't surprise me, seeing who the author was !
To put the skill level of MDD into perspective. Even I find it challenging. Even now, I still have to think to solve different problems all the time. There are still moves from other than the leading end which I still struggle to judge. The passout was tougher than the psychometric tests in every way; something which only 40% of the uk population over 21 can pass!
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Are you a driver? If you are you will know all the rules and regs both mainline and depot drivers have to comply with. In some ways mainline driving is much much easier than depot driving. As mainline you will normally be driving from the leading cab under main aspect signals. Driving a train when you can't see the front of your train having to have complete faith in your shunter is no "child's play". As I said maybe Bev does go a bit OTT but you mak it sound like you could give any person off th street a master key and they could do a depot drivers job.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Depot Drivers have to pass assessments to the same level as mainline drivers. Some TOCs you HAVE to be a depot driver first!!
carriageline
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Bev, I understand it's your opinion completely, I respect that 100%. Like you said, you have seen other jobs and they weren't your cup of tea, fair enough!
But your previous post is why you get so much hate, you said, and I quote "MDD IS the best job on the railway"
And I don't doubt it's a hard job either, again there is harder jobs out there
But your previous post is why you get so much hate, you said, and I quote "MDD IS the best job on the railway"
And I don't doubt it's a hard job either, again there is harder jobs out there
Beveridges
Established Member
I never said its the hardest job out there, far from it, but it can be challenging in a satisfying way that keeps it anything but boring!
Now my post stated that it was my opinion at the end of it. I don't go around posting "my job is better than yours, FACT" - that is more the style of some of the ML Drivers on here that seem to post whatever the hell they want and get away with it!
No complaints from me - its all part of what prevents this forum from being boring.
Now my post stated that it was my opinion at the end of it. I don't go around posting "my job is better than yours, FACT" - that is more the style of some of the ML Drivers on here that seem to post whatever the hell they want and get away with it!
No complaints from me - its all part of what prevents this forum from being boring.
Beveridges
Established Member
It is only one of the most complex, skilled and responsible jobs on the railway. Too many ML Drivers put the job down on here and I set the record straight. Never heard any such disrespect towards MDDs in the real world from ML drivers just on here for some reason
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Beveridges
Established Member
Yes, depots are some of the highest risk areas in existence. Stats show there is far more chance of having an SOL incident on depot than mainline. The consequences of the worst incidents are just as extreme - you could kill someone and end up in jail
Beveridges
Established Member
My driving is as "proper" as it gets. Your so quick to point out that I never drove mainline, I'll point out you've never done MDD.
The responsibility between the two roles is probably about the same. It's not just my take on it but is the opinion of many who have done both.
The responsibility between the two roles is probably about the same. It's not just my take on it but is the opinion of many who have done both.
Press & call
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- 7
Absolute bull crap...... I've been a depot driver, boring, easy, no need to think, **** money, dirty and I worked with some of the best idiots in the industry, and as the job is all planned out for you I somewhat can not understand how these idiots I used to work with always seemed to muck up!!! Scariest thought their going to be mainline drivers soon.... Incredible
Jimmy McNulty
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I'd give my left bollock for a go at depot driving.
Equally I'd spare my right one for a go at Mainline.
After various jobs and careers away from the railway I can honestly say that whatever I was doing, being it removing **** and **** from the toilet in sleet and snow in the middle of December or driving around the only line I sign and stopping at numerous stations within a 15 mile radius would be an absolute pleasure. The minute either got tedious I would look back to previous times and think . . . well this ain't so bad is it.
Equally I'd spare my right one for a go at Mainline.
After various jobs and careers away from the railway I can honestly say that whatever I was doing, being it removing **** and **** from the toilet in sleet and snow in the middle of December or driving around the only line I sign and stopping at numerous stations within a 15 mile radius would be an absolute pleasure. The minute either got tedious I would look back to previous times and think . . . well this ain't so bad is it.
Silv1983
Member
It's only "driving" by definition. It completely lacks in the "spirit" of train driving. I regularly blow out matches: but I don't call myself a fireman.
The responsibilities of an MDD and a ML driver are one of the things you cannot deny differ considerably: although unbelievable you seem to have managed it!
Talking about responsibilities alone - MDD's only have to drive upto 5mph in a well lit and controlled environment. There aren't hundreds of passengers depending on you not to nod off or become distracted when slowing down for a 50mph restriction on a a fast line; coming into stop at some buffers - or scrutinising the next 6 signals and crossovers ahead in your mind to make sure you've not been wrong routed coming out of a complex station. If your train develops a fault it can be circum-navigated and left without concern whilst the fitters sort it out. When a mainline train fails - the driver has to juggle the fault, communicate to the signaller, control, the guard AND appease 300 passengers to boot - all whilst acknowledging that they alone are immediately responsible (there's that word) for the obstruction of a busy route the whole time the problem goes unfixed. You don't have to worry about trespassers, suicide, vandalism, fog, leaf fall, signal irregularities (unless that stop board looks a bit dirty), fires in tunnels or derailment. Okay, so maybe you do worry about derailment - but the difference is on a depot at 5mph (or 3mph if propelling) when you derail it makes a bit of a thud. Derailing at 75mph because a fishplate has snapped can result in massive loss of life.
Again, *sigh* - "I'm not saying mainline is a better job than MDD blah blah blah yawn" - but its laughable anyone (even by your massively biased standards) - can claim the responsibilities are the same. Why if the jobs are the same calibre are MDDs on £10k less. Why do ML drivers spend 3 times as long as MDDs doing classroom based training. The list goes on.
Cor which depot did you work at. You obviously working under a yardy. Certainly at Colchester and Clacton you do not have your moves "planned out for you" in fact you really have to think on your feet at times at these depots as you are your own boss and you organise the yard!!
I really hope I never have to work with you ever because you sound like a bit of an Im better than everyone else cos I'm a driver, in other words a t****r. I really hope you don't have anything happen to you I your driving career where by you have to become what you seem to despise. Like I said I know of a few drivers who messed up once to often and are no longer drivers and are now having to eat humble pie!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Whilst I acknowledge that Bev over does the old Depot Driver role a bit, I think you are over doing Mainline a bit. 99% of the time the worst thing you have to worry about is which stations you are stopping at. Braking points for stations are engrained into you brain, if you have a derailment then you are extremely unlucky, you make it sound like it happens every day. When was the last fire you had on your train? When was the last time you were wrong routed or got a red straight after a double yellow? Failure to calls are probably the most common incident to happen and that is mainly because the driver hasn't checked his Sheila for where he/she next stops. Most driving incidents involve a lack of concentration as at times train driving is monotonous.
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Silv1983
Member
You misunderstand. Im talking about the potential hazards of mainline - im not describing a daily shift (bless).
Okay, I'll simplify it (knew all that waffle would bamboozle some of you!).
MDD - 5mph, no passengers. ML - 75-125mph, hundreds of passengers.
Still equal levels of responsibility?
p.s. you're absolutely right, what you described is a daily chore most of the time - but that doesn't alleviate the driver or his or her responsiblities of controlling a hundred ton train with 300 people on board and dealing with faults, accidents, failures and emergencies etc. You've kind of missed the point.
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Please add your source on this! Today I have a job that had over 100 station stops on a line that is notorious for vandalism and tresspass. I quite like this shift as the last one only had 25 station stops on one of the most picturesque line I have driven so this is a variety. When I worked on southern I probably encountered more signals in a week than an MDD would do in a year and different signals not just 20 signals encountered hundreds of times, if there are more SOL incidents in the MDD role than mainline in a pecentage comparison you just have not got the same quality of drivers within MDD surely Bev, sorry pal but by your staement I am just trying to work out a valid reason for this SOL incident thing. Your quote "you could kill someone and end up in jail" you could do this driving your car but this does not mean that being a taxi driver is more of a challenge than being a train driver. Sorry Bev you are clutching at straws here buddy. I respect your personal views on you role but you are out of touch with reality I am afraid.
Ow I am in no way stating that the Depot has more responsibility than mainline or that the depot is better than mainline. I was merely pointing out that your description was a bit OTT.
Beveridges
Established Member
MDD's get involved in stuff mainline drivers never do. Putting split units back together with someone working inbetween vehicles for example - now that's more serious than stopping at stations!
Even if you SPAD the chances are TPWS will stop you safely.
The other stuff that can happen (fire, derailment, etc) is rare as rocking horse s**t, may never happen.
TDK - you mention the amount of signals you pass, there's far more to SOL incidents than signals. All I can say is MDD'ing at my place would be a hell of a lot easier if we had more signals, rather than the current situation where you have to rely on radio communication, planning, concentration & looking out for hazards (points, fouling units, fitters working on or under your train, etc) and memorising everything that is going on at all times that can relate to train movements.
The times we do have to pass signals is by far the easiest bit.
Someone mentioned Mainline fault finding - in northern at least, they cant do anything without permission of control.
MDD fault finding - we make our own decision unauthorised by anyone. We decide ourselves if its ok to isolate the BIC, parking brake, etc. We also happen to do these things on a daily basis as well - not once every 5 years!!
MDDs also prep trains which are about to enter mainline service. A high risk task in itself, miss something and that train could leave the depot and have a serious incident - all they need to do is check the prep slip to see who prepped it.
The responsibilities of both roles are different which is why there's no simple answer which has the most responsibility, we do things mainline drivers never get to do, while mainline drivers do things we never get to do.
Silv1983- ML Driving 75-125mph?? How often do you do those speeds in Northern on "all shacks" Stoppers on 14X / 15X ?!
Even if you SPAD the chances are TPWS will stop you safely.
The other stuff that can happen (fire, derailment, etc) is rare as rocking horse s**t, may never happen.
TDK - you mention the amount of signals you pass, there's far more to SOL incidents than signals. All I can say is MDD'ing at my place would be a hell of a lot easier if we had more signals, rather than the current situation where you have to rely on radio communication, planning, concentration & looking out for hazards (points, fouling units, fitters working on or under your train, etc) and memorising everything that is going on at all times that can relate to train movements.
The times we do have to pass signals is by far the easiest bit.
Someone mentioned Mainline fault finding - in northern at least, they cant do anything without permission of control.
MDD fault finding - we make our own decision unauthorised by anyone. We decide ourselves if its ok to isolate the BIC, parking brake, etc. We also happen to do these things on a daily basis as well - not once every 5 years!!
MDDs also prep trains which are about to enter mainline service. A high risk task in itself, miss something and that train could leave the depot and have a serious incident - all they need to do is check the prep slip to see who prepped it.
The responsibilities of both roles are different which is why there's no simple answer which has the most responsibility, we do things mainline drivers never get to do, while mainline drivers do things we never get to do.
Silv1983- ML Driving 75-125mph?? How often do you do those speeds in Northern on "all shacks" Stoppers on 14X / 15X ?!
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These stats do not exist.
I know this because if they did exist I would have read them (my job includes MDD operations).
It could be argued that SOL incidents may happen at a greater rate (per staff, train movement or shift length) because over the years these posts have been filled with demoted mainline drivers with previous SOL incidents.
jambo said:
That is harsh.
Whilst I will agree that at time his opinions are quite wide of the mark (and in some instances are bordering on lies) I am sure his training has been of a sufficient quality and length to mitigate any incidents.
Sounds like a dodgy working practice to me.
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