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Does the Rail hobby need a kick up the......

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MCW

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The reason is quite simple. How many people standing on the platform taking numbers (the visible side of the enthusiasts community) are young, well-dressed, trendy, and fashionable?

Can't really blame your girls.

This is not yet taking into account the negative press and stereotyping enthusiasts tend to get.

god i must be a well kept one then, my jeans are always clean, leather jacket is always looked after, i polish my boots and belt buckles and kee me shoulder length hair washed conditioned and brushed. as well as being clean shaven and i still don't have a Girlfriend!!!! I must just be unlucky lol :lol:
 
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MK Tom

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The reason is quite simple. How many people standing on the platform taking numbers (the visible side of the enthusiasts community) are young, well-dressed, trendy, and fashionable?

Can't really blame your girls.

This is not yet taking into account the negative press and stereotyping enthusiasts tend to get.

Without meaning to offend anyone here, this is a really good point. Personally, although I don't 'spot' with a notebook, I do a lot of standing around platform ends and bridges photographing (sometimes when there isn't even a train present!). BUT that's the only thing that gives away my hobby. I dress pretty much like anyone else my age would (factoring in other things like music taste and social background). I really don't understand why some in our community seem to play straight into all our worst stereotypes, literally wearing anoraks for example. It'd actually be cooler to wear shirts proudly proclaiming our enthusiasm, as a part of otherwise normal dress.

I think making our hobby more acceptable and normal in the eyes of the masses should be an objective of ours. It's the only real way to swell our ranks, resulting in more publications, productions, groups and so on being available to us. The public aught to realise that rail enthusiasm (and NOT trainspotting) is FAR bigger and more widespread than they consider it. It's very easy for people to throw us in with the pylon spotters. This enthusiasm is bigger, more involved and far less 'weird' than the public conception suggests, and playing straight into its stereotypes does nothing to help that situation, a situation which is very harmful to us and our hobby (and its future).
 

tbtc

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I'm sorry but I really can't buy into this. I was a trainspotter from around 1976 until 1984 when at the age of 18 I headed off to University. During those eight years my train loving pals and I couldn't care less about the colour of the trains because there were so many locos to see and the railways were operationally far more interesting. If we were bored with the local scene in Derbyshire we could head off to Crewe which truly was a Mecca in those days or head off to Manchester looking for Class 76's. Not to mention York, Birmingham, Bristol and of course London. Nobody north of the river Thames really had much of an interest in units as there were so many loco classes to try and clear. In my opinion different coloured DMU's / EMU's are a poor substitute for Class 40's, 20's, 25's, 76's, 81's etc. What people would give to see hundreds of active class 08's on today’s network :sad:

Taking Crewe as an example - nowadays if you spend an hour there then you could realistically expect to see

  • 150s
  • 153s
  • 156s
  • 175s
  • 221s
  • 323s
  • 350s
  • 390s

Plus freight, of course (and maybe a 142 or a 158, depending on availability).

That's fairly interesting, in terms of variety for any "spotting youth". The difference is that we've got older.
 

RichmondCommu

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Taking Crewe as an example - nowadays if you spend an hour there then you could realistically expect to see

  • 150s
  • 153s
  • 156s
  • 175s
  • 221s
  • 323s
  • 350s
  • 390s

Plus freight, of course (and maybe a 142 or a 158, depending on availability).

That's fairly interesting, in terms of variety for any "spotting youth". The difference is that we've got older.

Yes but with the exeception of the freight trains these are all EMU's and DMU's and I don't think anyone would suggest that units are as interesting as loco's. I except that nowadays thats all a 'spotter has to go at but it's easy to see why the interest is no longer there. That said, with regard to rolling stock the railway is in a much better state then it was all those years a go. I
 

ryan125hst

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rail enthusiasm (and NOT trainspotting)

Exactly! When every I talk to someone about the hobby, I say that I am a rail enthusiast. I don't say I'm a trainspotter. Not only is it true as I don't record numbers, it also sounds better and I am less likely to be made fun of.
 

317666

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I'm in my late teens and I've been interested in railways all of my life. I really don't know why I am, my enthusiasm has just always been there. I've never really been a trainspotter as such, I did try taking down numbers once as a kid but got bored after about ten minutes - I've always preferred travelling on trains rather than watching them. These days I do take down the numbers of trains I've travelled on and work out the mileage, but it's really just for reference. I'm also interested in photography, and I usually take photos whilst on the move rather than deliberately standing at a station for hours.

As far as how interesting today's scene is goes, in the UK I'm generally a fan of units because they're what I've grown up with. My first ever train ride was on a Class 317, and I also have many childhood memories of them. I barely remember loco-hauled passenger trains in the UK at all, a few vague memories of 86s on the Great Eastern and that's it.

I also have an interest in the continental railway scene though, countries such as Germany, Switzerland and Austria where there are still many loco-hauled trains. Holidays over there when I was younger are probably the reason why. I find though that most enthusiasts my age don't tend to be interested in railways outside of the UK, although that's just from my experience and I'd like to be proved wrong!
 

Harbon 1

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Without meaning to offend anyone here, this is a really good point. Personally, although I don't 'spot' with a notebook, I do a lot of standing around platform ends and bridges photographing (sometimes when there isn't even a train present!). BUT that's the only thing that gives away my hobby. I dress pretty much like anyone else my age would (factoring in other things like music taste and social background). I really don't understand why some in our community seem to play straight into all our worst stereotypes, literally wearing anoraks for example. It'd actually be cooler to wear shirts proudly proclaiming our enthusiasm, as a part of otherwise normal dress.

I totally agree. When I go out photographing, I wear jeans, a shirt and red converse. Unless you know what type of bags Lowepro make, I blend in with everyone else (until I whack out my camera of course). I'll happily go and sit at the end of a platform for a few hours in the sun, it's one of the nicest ways of combining your interest, earfuls of music (I'm not a very talkative enthusiast, I like to keep myself to myself :p) and sun into one day.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Exactly! When every I talk to someone about the hobby, I say that I am a rail enthusiast. I don't say I'm a trainspotter. Not only is it true as I don't record numbers, it also sounds better and I am less likely to be made fun of.

I do the same. I just say I take pictures of trains, makes it easier for them to understand what I do and wondering what an enthusiast is. It especially came in useful when a friends Bulgarian exchange came over and asked what I like doing :lol:
 

4SRKT

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Does it matter really? My relationship with the railway is my own business and I literally do not care in the slightest what anyone else thinks about it, or even whether anyone knows about it or not. The hobby doesn't need a 'kick up the arse' because that implies that image is something we should worry about, and as a group in my [not inconsiderable and long-lasting] experience, we are not at all concerned with image. In fact I would go as far as to say that it it one of the defining virtues of rail enthusiasts that we get on with our hobby, and the friendships made therethrough, without giving even a medium sized damn.
 

43074

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Does it matter really? My relationship with the railway is my own business and I literally do not care in the slightest what anyone else thinks about it, or even whether anyone knows about it or not. The hobby doesn't need a 'kick up the arse' because that implies that image is something we should worry about, and as a group in my [not inconsiderable and long-lasting] experience, we are not at all concerned with image. In fact I would go as far as to say that it it one of the defining virtues of rail enthusiasts that we get on with our hobby, and the friendships made therethrough, without giving even a medium sized damn.

Exactly.

I couldn't really care less what clothes I wear when I go out photographing trains (not trainspotting - I don't take numbers and won't go halfway across the country with the sole intent of seeing 156422 because I haven't got it's number in a notebook yet). I look just as much like anyone else would look my age, rail enthusiast or not.

It may seem unattractive for girls with me being a rail enthusiast and all that, but I couldn't really care much less about what anyone thinks about the hobby - it's what I enjoy doing and that's that.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I also have an interest in the continental railway scene though, countries such as Germany, Switzerland and Austria where there are still many loco-hauled trains. Holidays over there when I was younger are probably the reason why. I find though that most enthusiasts my age don't tend to be interested in railways outside of the UK, although that's just from my experience and I'd like to be proved wrong!

I take a passive interest in the continental railway scene. Money and time are the only things stopping me from going over to travel on some foreign railways to be honest.
 
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As a middle-aged 'anorak' who no longer indulges in 'anorakery' - was only ever a spotter for c. eighteen months preferring gricing instead - some may consider oneself to be 'Coventry bound' on this matter !
But, surely the biggest turn-off for most people now be the repetitivety of the modern scene - all units or sheds. As someone of the post 'kettle' age who would listen to old f***s moaning on about the monotony of the Seventies and Eighties railway scene - one can now understand exactly what they meant ! Not sure what that makes Moi ?!
Deltics, Grids, Hoovers, Peaks, Syphons, Whistlers... even Duffs ! - oh how one misses them - and the variety of trains they hauled.
Nowadays ? - would not be seen dead at the end of any station platform - they be 'deadening' places !
 

AndyHudds

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I never really understand people standing on platforms taking numbers down, all modern trains are the same.....boring and nowt to look at. I'm interested in railways but, not that side of it, actual trains numbers or models hold no interest at all for me.
 

Antman

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I never really understand people standing on platforms taking numbers down, all modern trains are the same.....boring and nowt to look at. I'm interested in railways but, not that side of it, actual trains numbers or models hold no interest at all for me.


Very much my thoughts as well but each to their own interests
 

Condor7

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Yes but with the exeception of the freight trains these are all EMU's and DMU's and I don't think anyone would suggest that units are as interesting as loco's. I except that nowadays thats all a 'spotter has to go at but it's easy to see why the interest is no longer there. That said, with regard to rolling stock the railway is in a much better state then it was all those years a go. I

I know what you are saying and at one time thought the same myself.
I am not sure of your age, but I am of the old school, and remember steam and all the variety of diesel locos that used to be around.

However what this thread and others previously has made me realise is that to younger enthusiasts, DMU's EMU's Voyager, HST's Pendelino's etc are all they have known, and to them such as Pacers are heritage stock.

Many of the younger ones on here love the units that we used to dismiss, and I must admit I have come to like them myself. I still think a Pendelino at speed looks amazing.
 

RichmondCommu

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I know what you are saying and at one time thought the same myself.
I am not sure of your age, but I am of the old school, and remember steam and all the variety of diesel locos that used to be around.

However what this thread and others previously has made me realise is that to younger enthusiasts, DMU's EMU's Voyager, HST's Pendelino's etc are all they have known, and to them such as Pacers are heritage stock.

Many of the younger ones on here love the units that we used to dismiss, and I must admit I have come to like them myself. I still think a Pendelino at speed looks amazing.

I was born in 1966 in Derbyshire and by 1976 I was taking trainspotting seriously. Whilst I'd missed out on steam all the Sulzers and English Electrics were still running shich of course meant lots of variety.

Now I acknowledge that the times have changed but I just can't see the attraction in chasing after EMU's as they seem to have no soul. However I am of the opinion that the railways are in much better shape and that the Pendolinos are very impressive at 125 mph with full tilt. But nothing comes close to hearing a Class 40 struggling up to Aisgill! Memories!
 

tbtc

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Yes but with the exeception of the freight trains these are all EMU's and DMU's and I don't think anyone would suggest that units are as interesting as loco's. I except that nowadays thats all a 'spotter has to go at but it's easy to see why the interest is no longer there

It's all relative though. The 40s that you were so excited about (and Class 27s that I was so excited about) were no doubt dull to those a generation older than us who found steam much more interesting.

In thirty/ fifty years time, today's "youth" will be saying that modern stock isn't as exciting as listening to a 170 trying to cross the Pennines. Plus ca change.

We might as well argue that the music we grew up with was more interesting - it was to us but every generation thinks that about their era.
 

Muzer

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I do find today's stock has significant variety. In looks, yes, perhaps not as much as previous generations; but have you listened to a variety of units? Each has its own unique sound, some of them very distinctive - the whine of a 158, the ghostly sound of a 450 or 444, and the almost indescribably odd sound of a 323 (similar to some London Underground stock) - and this is all the more "ordinary" stock; I haven't touched on locos, HSTs (and their modern replacements), etc.. Even a Pacer has charm as long as you don't need to travel on it regularly ;). There's a lot to hold the interest as far as trains go.

And I try not to make fun of other hobbies - I was very irritated when I was sympathising with some model rail enthusiasts about how their hobby was looked down upon, and they then proceeded to insult Trekkies of which I am one ;). It's just a hobby; no hobby, even pylon spotting, really deserves to be made fun of (apart from between friends in jest, of course).
 

mrmartin

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Depends really, I'm in my mid 20s but very interested in the railways. I have another friend who also loves the railways too and now works as a project manager for a large engineering firm, mainly because of his interest that we developed together.

However, I don't go spotting trains for sure, and I generally don't tell anyone unless it comes up. Most people are very surprised and baffled that I am a big fan - I don't act or look like a stereotypical trainspotter ;).
 

DarloRich

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I am interested in railways and railway operations but i have no interest in jotting numbers in a book.

That said, I am sure they think i am a spotter at work ;)
 

Vulcan star

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It is sad to see our hobby dwindling so quickly, 17 locos scrapped in the last four months, especially as some of these were ETH fitted locos. Just how long before there is nothing left, what then for new preserved railways (once the present financial crisis is over) where will they get there locos from to get started, they can’t all afford three million pounds for a new loco.

There is however a Question that needs to be asked here as to the legality of our hobby being scrapped, yes these companies legally own the locos and can scrap them if they want, but what they don’t have is the right to do is destroy some ones hobby. The public would soon have something to say if we bought up all the golf courses and started to dig them up the government would probably even step in to stop us, a protection they are not affording us. By scrapping these locomotives they are in my opinion leaving themselves’ open to claims of compensation for the destruction of our hobby and the loss that they have brought upon us. This is something that should be looked into by a more legally minded person than I, and hopefully it will be.
 

ST PADDY

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One idea to bolster the numbers of people taking up the hobby would be to create a video game that recreates the hobby as it was in the past, both steam and diesel. Where you have to chase locos around the country side to either spot or bash every member of each class. They would of course encounter the same pitfalls that befell most of us in the past; such as the loco you went for having gone off some where else for what ever reason, to rescue a failure or it is self having failed and was replaced ETC ETC. Those that find the challenge appealing will of course take up the challenge for real, hopefully. The game may also appeal to those of us who did it for real recreating the fun of the past.
 

telstarbox

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There is however a Question that needs to be asked here as to the legality of our hobby being scrapped, yes these companies legally own the locos and can scrap them if they want, but what they don’t have is the right to do is destroy some ones hobby. The public would soon have something to say if we bought up all the golf courses and started to dig them up the government would probably even step in to stop us, a protection they are not affording us. By scrapping these locomotives they are in my opinion leaving themselves’ open to claims of compensation for the destruction of our hobby and the loss that they have brought upon us. This is something that should be looked into by a more legally minded person than I, and hopefully it will be.

This is rubbish. The owners of the locos have no obligations whatsoever to enthusiasts and couldn't care less.

 

90019

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It is sad to see our hobby dwindling so quickly, 17 locos scrapped in the last four months, especially as some of these were ETH fitted locos.

If they were 37s or 47s, then good riddance - there are far too many of them in preservation, in my opinion.
I think they need to get rid of some of each (ideally use them for parts) to free up space and money for for other things that don't have any examples in preservation yet.

Just how long before there is nothing left, what then for new preserved railways (once the present financial crisis is over) where will they get there locos from to get started, they can’t all afford three million pounds for a new loco.

I'm not aware of any preserved railways buying brand new locomotives, so I don't see what that has to do with it.
They'll do what others have done and buy old ones that are either in need of restoration or are already restored.

Though, I would question the sustainability of having loads of new preserved lines. Surely there will be a limit to how many we have before the customer base becomes to thinly spread for them all to be able to continue.

There is however a Question that needs to be asked here as to the legality of our hobby being scrapped, yes these companies legally own the locos and can scrap them if they want, but what they don’t have is the right to do is destroy some ones hobby.

Uhh, yes they do.
They have no obligation to keep something just because someone else likes it, it's totally up to them what to do with them.
If you want something saved, then you'll need to contribute to buying, storing and maintaining it. It's all very well going "They can't scrap that, it's our hobby!", but unless you're going to do something towards trying to save it, then you're not going to make a difference.

The public would soon have something to say if we bought up all the golf courses and started to dig them up the government would probably even step in to stop us, a protection they are not affording us.

No they wouldn't.
If you did that, all that would happen is that people would build more golf courses, because the demand is there.

By scrapping these locomotives they are in my opinion leaving themselves’ open to claims of compensation for the destruction of our hobby and the loss that they have brought upon us. This is something that should be looked into by a more legally minded person than I, and hopefully it will be.

I think you're living under a delusion.
It's got nothing to do with the government whether private individuals and companies choose to keep or get rid of preserved trains.

There isn't an infinite pot of money that can be used to preserve every train and every closed line. If you really want to see something preserved, then do something to help, like contribute financially or volunteer.
 
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Temple Meads

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It is sad to see our hobby dwindling so quickly, 17 locos scrapped in the last four months, especially as some of these were ETH fitted locos. Just how long before there is nothing left, what then for new preserved railways (once the present financial crisis is over) where will they get there locos from to get started, they can’t all afford three million pounds for a new loco.

There is however a Question that needs to be asked here as to the legality of our hobby being scrapped, yes these companies legally own the locos and can scrap them if they want, but what they don’t have is the right to do is destroy some ones hobby. The public would soon have something to say if we bought up all the golf courses and started to dig them up the government would probably even step in to stop us, a protection they are not affording us. By scrapping these locomotives they are in my opinion leaving themselves’ open to claims of compensation for the destruction of our hobby and the loss that they have brought upon us. This is something that should be looked into by a more legally minded person than I, and hopefully it will be.

In my opinion this is the sort of thing that gives rail enthusiasts a bad reputation, the railway exists not for spotters but for passengers, we have to adapt to changes, whether they are for better or worse for enthusiasts.

One idea to bolster the numbers of people taking up the hobby would be to create a video game that recreates the hobby as it was in the past, both steam and diesel. Where you have to chase locos around the country side to either spot or bash every member of each class. They would of course encounter the same pitfalls that befell most of us in the past; such as the loco you went for having gone off some where else for what ever reason, to rescue a failure or it is self having failed and was replaced ETC ETC. Those that find the challenge appealing will of course take up the challenge for real, hopefully. The game may also appeal to those of us who did it for real recreating the fun of the past.

There is a game called "Hellfire" that sounds rather like what you're describing, it's not got much in the way of graphics, and the full version isn't free, but it can be seriously absorbing, link: http://www.railrover.co.uk/hfdownloads.php
 

SussexSpotter

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I don't think much can be done to revive the hobby to be honest, each generation is brought up differently! Times change....
 
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DarloRich

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There is however a Question that needs to be asked here as to the legality of our hobby being scrapped, yes these companies legally own the locos and can scrap them if they want, but what they don’t have is the right to do is destroy some ones hobby. The public would soon have something to say if we bought up all the golf courses and started to dig them up the government would probably even step in to stop us, a protection they are not affording us. By scrapping these locomotives they are in my opinion leaving themselves’ open to claims of compensation for the destruction of our hobby and the loss that they have brought upon us. This is something that should be looked into by a more legally minded person than I, and hopefully it will be.

What on earth or you wibbling on about? Total and utter balderdash frankly bordering on the lunatic! The owners of an asset have absolutely no interest in considering what a bunch of silly spotters think. Their sole interest is earning as much as possible from the asset before getting rid of it in the most beneficial manner. On what legal basis would you base a claim for compensation? Breaches of the Provision of Type 3 Traction on Listed Passenger Services Act 1981 S.198 subsection 34?

I actually can’t express how stupid this post is without being banned so I shall leave it there! :roll::roll::roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
One idea to bolster the numbers of people taking up the hobby would be to create a video game that recreates the hobby as it was in the past, both steam and diesel. Where you have to chase locos around the country side to either spot or bash every member of each class. They would of course encounter the same pitfalls that befell most of us in the past; such as the loco you went for having gone off some where else for what ever reason, to rescue a failure or it is self having failed and was replaced ETC ETC. Those that find the challenge appealing will of course take up the challenge for real, hopefully. The game may also appeal to those of us who did it for real recreating the fun of the past.

It already exisits, at least in part, in a game called Hellfire
 

RichmondCommu

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It is sad to see our hobby dwindling so quickly, 17 locos scrapped in the last four months, especially as some of these were ETH fitted locos. Just how long before there is nothing left, what then for new preserved railways (once the present financial crisis is over) where will they get there locos from to get started, they can’t all afford three million pounds for a new loco.

There is however a Question that needs to be asked here as to the legality of our hobby being scrapped, yes these companies legally own the locos and can scrap them if they want, but what they don’t have is the right to do is destroy some ones hobby. The public would soon have something to say if we bought up all the golf courses and started to dig them up the government would probably even step in to stop us, a protection they are not affording us. By scrapping these locomotives they are in my opinion leaving themselves’ open to claims of compensation for the destruction of our hobby and the loss that they have brought upon us. This is something that should be looked into by a more legally minded person than I, and hopefully it will be.

This is absolute drivel. Are you related to Ian Poole by any chance? Given that those locos were no longer required what is the point in keeping them? If a preserved railway / enthusiast was interested in buying those loco's then they would have done exactly that. Given that no bids were forthcoming where is the point in keeping them only to see them rust away? Far better to cash them in at the breakers yard.

Why should FOC's (I'm assuming that they owned the scrapped locos) care about rail enthusiasts and our hobby? I've visited a fair few preserved railways in the last few weeks and all seem to be thriving without the need to buy another Class 37. If a young family visits a preserved railway they are looking to ride behind a steam locomotive, not a Class 37. This is why railways would rather spend their money restoring and repairing steam locos. Yes I agree that there will always be a place for diesels but steam is quite rightly the priority for restoration money.
 

ANDYS

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I have come to this discussion late so please forgive me if I am repaeting what others have said.

I am a 40ish bloke who is returning to trains after time out for girls/wife/family. Times have certainly changed but I still love to get out and about to places I have not been for years and to see how the railway scene has changed. Gone are most of my favourite locos (20, 31, 37, 47 etc) but I still get a thrill when I see something I have not seen before or get to go somewhere unusual.

One big change is that I now have a constant companion, my 10 year old son. He has seriously got the train bug and we have had some excellent days out exploring the country. He often brings his mate and I am trying to get both of them hooked for life. His knowledge of trains is better than mine, his geography is amazing and he has been to places most 10 year old's have never been. Trains and train-spotting has opened up so much for him.

My son has his own You Tube account for his videos and he has made loads of friends many not far off his age. I agree that times have changed but as for dying out I cannot see this hobby ever going that far.

Anyway. check out the videos (http://www.youtube.com/user/ZVSXJDCSDKLS3?feature=watch)

and photos (http://www.flickr.com/photos/66737297@N06/)

Andy S
 
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