Driver Training

[A-driver]

The original post was in regards to someone who said people who go to uni have more life skills than those that stay at home. My comments were in reaction to this.

No it didn't. Re-read it please before passing such ignorant comments.

My post pointed out that whilst a degree isn't always worth what it used to be worth due to the number of people now getting them the idea that someone has lived away from home and therefore learnt the life skills that you get from doing so can make them more valuable than someone who has just left school and has never lived away from mum & dad. And that much is fact, not an opinion. Go and ask some employers who they would rather employ and please read my posts properly in future rather than coming up with non existant arguments for the sake of it!

 

[reapz]

No it didn't. Re-read it please before passing such ignorant comments.

My post pointed out that whilst a degree isn't always worth what it used to be worth due to the number of people now getting them the idea that someone has lived away from home and therefore learnt the life skills that you get from doing so can make them more valuable than someone who has just left school and has never lived away from mum & dad. And that much is fact, not an opinion. Go and ask some employers who they would rather employ and please read my posts properly in future rather than coming up with non existant arguments for the sake of it!

Im not the first person to read your post and come to the same conclusion

 

[sidekick]

It's quite hilarious the views people have of uni students who have never been. Like A-Driver suggests, it's easy to point fingers from the outside. Now sure, some people just treat it as a waste of 3 years where they can get drunk every other night, but there are enough people in the real world doing that every weekend too. However, those of us who chose to do a degree subject with actual prospects actually did a large amount of very demanding work, working full time hours plus holding down a part time job to fund staying alive.

I've just finished at Masters Degree in Aeronautical Engineering, as in design engineering - This involved 4 years of incredibly difficult maths and physics, and a year working for the worlds largest Aircraft manufacturer. After starting I realised it was something I definitely didn't want to do, but I kept on with it for years as to get the all important piece of paper at the end which is what you need these days. I didn't particularly enjoy uni after the initial year, and i'd like to see all the naysayers opinions when they've lived on 30-40 quid a week for 4 years straight, I can tell you it's not an overly fun existence - I had considerably less disposable income than all of my friends who went straight into the working world.

Without this degree there would be no way I would be starting my Driver Training in a few weeks time as someone in their early twenties unless I had gone straight in the military - simple as that. The experiences it gave me got me through the CBI, simple as. It's worth noting I also had a job offer with another company in the engineering industry during my driver assessments too, which is a nice backup. If people want to believe it's a waste of time, then feel free I couldn't care what people think, but for those prepared to work hard it's still a decent opportunity.

 

[Silv1983]

I dont read the crappy uk papers sounds like you do though, this is based on friends that have gone to uni

I didn't think you were old enough to have friends who had been to uni :roll:

 

[reapz]

I didn't think you were old enough to have friends who had been to uni :roll:

Wow personal insults all because I feel people who have worked in any job make better recruits than people straight out of uni I must of really hurt your feelings.

 

[Silv1983]

Wow personal insults all because I feel people who have worked in any job make better recruits than people straight out of uni I must of really hurt your feelings.

Were you insulted by that quip? I apologise - didn't mean to upset you petal. With age you'll develop contextual awareness, and will realise it was not an insinuation as such: more of a bit of light banter.

And you didn't hurt my feelings. However, your fatuous remarks, abysmal spelling and grammar, stereotypical attitude and general ignorance to all things discussed on here - hurt my brain.

 

[reapz]

Were you insulted by that quip? I apologise. With age you'll develop contextual awareness, and will realise it was not an insinuation as such: more of a bit of light banter.

And you didn't hurt my feelings. However, your fatuous remarks, abysmal spelling and grammar, stereotypical attitude and general ignorance to all things discussed on here - hurt my brain.

Well Im 100% sure I am older than you, this is not a spelling forum its a forum about railways and if you do not like how others think then you sir are very narrow minded not everyone has to be on your wave length.

If you don't like the opinions of others who work in the industry that you are trying to get into you will fail.

I am always helpful and post advice where I see fit also I have had a lot of pm's thanking me for advice I have given.

So getting all up tight about spelling and grammar is very entertaining for me thank you.

Rofl

 

[Silv1983]

Well Im 100% sure I am older than you, this is not a spelling forum its a forum about railways and if you do not like how others think then you sir are very narrow minded not everyone has to be on your wave length.

If you don't like the opinions of others who work in the industry that you are trying to get into you will fail.

I am always helpful and post advice where I see fit also I have had a lot of pm's thanking me for advice I have given.

So getting all up tight about spelling and grammar is very entertaining for me thank you.

Rofl

I'm already in the industry thanks. On here contributing to helping other aspiring drivers' because of the help I received. I've never seen you offer any salient advice. And also you miss the point about your spelling and grammar. It doesn't bother me per se; but when you blurt out pointless waffle like a teenage girl texting: it irritates me, undermines and brings down the culture and integrity of this forum.

 

[reapz]

I'm already in the industry thanks. On here contributing to helping other aspiring drivers' because of the help I received. I've never seen you offer any salient advice. And also you miss the point about your spelling and grammar. It doesn't bother me per se; but when you blurt out pointless waffle like a teenage girl texting: it irritates me, undermines and brings down the culture and integrity of this forum.

Sorry I forgot every post had to be ran through you obviously have control issues maybe you should apply to be a mod and ban me for an opinion.

 

[455driver]

Sorry I forgot every post had to be ran through with a spell checher to make sure it is easy to read you obviously have control issues maybe you should apply to be a mod and ban me for an opinion.

Post edited to make the point silv1983 was trying to make a lot clearer!

 

[TDK]

Some poor folk have neither.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


So people who go to university know a lot about one subject... and those who go to work with dad in his workshop at 18 (for example) - somehow managed to gather loads of other life experience despite working longer hours than students study?

People at university face all the same challenges as those who go straight into work you know... they just delay the start of their working life by 3 years.

In my experience I stick with my post. The univercity students I know and have interviewd know a lot about the subject(s) they have studies but not much about anything else! Sorry but this is my opinion of it!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Without this degree there would be no way I would be starting my Driver Training in a few weeks time as someone in their early twenties unless I had gone straight in the military - simple as that.

You don't know that and that is your opinion, you quote this as a fact when in fact you may have still got the job if you had not done the degree
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Wow personal insults all because I feel people who have worked in any job make better recruits than people straight out of uni I must of really hurt your feelings.

I totally agree with reapz on this one - someone straight out of uni does not have such a good offering for a train drivers job than someone with work experience, you can argue the fact against what reaps says but his post is totally correct

 

[driver9000]

Without this degree there would be no way I would be starting my Driver Training in a few weeks time as someone in their early twenties unless I had gone straight in the military - simple as that. The experiences it gave me got me through the CBI, simple as. It's worth noting I also had a job offer with another company in the engineering industry during my driver assessments too, which is a nice backup. If people want to believe it's a waste of time, then feel free I couldn't care what people think, but for those prepared to work hard it's still a decent opportunity.

How would not having your degree have prevented you getting a drivers job in your early 20s?

I left with school with nothing more than GCSE's and never did A levels or a degree. I also never served in the military yet started my driver training aged 23. It is possible and with the right background you would have got a job without the degree, I came from the bus industry. I'm not knocking your decision to get a degree or trying to sound big headed just pointing out that a degree isn't necessary to get a driving job in your early 20s.

Good luck with your training

 

[Silv1983]

In my experience I stick with my post. The univercity students I know and have interviewd know a lot about the subject(s) they have studies but not much about anything else! Sorry but this is my opinion of it!

I'll accept your opinion is your opinion based on your personal experience - but you must admit you can't qualify it with facts as to why this has happened and thus is quite a bizarre phenomenon. If it is true then the reasons must go unexplained - because as I said: students study less than school leavers work (in their field or subject) and thus have more time to gain experience/learn other 'subjects' as you put it, through the same challenges in the same areas in life (if not more for reasons above) than school leavers.

Before you retort: I'm NOT saying uni leavers are more experienced and knowledgeable than anyone else. Im simply saying that uni leavers (full time) working lives' start 3 years later than school leavers - but when they do start working, debt aside - they are better equipped for vacancies in any industry. Just looking at the number of graduates doing traditionally 'blue collar' jobs like policing, train driving, costa coffee managers etc supports this.

 

[455driver]

Without this degree there would be no way I would be starting my Driver Training in a few weeks time as someone in their early twenties unless I had gone straight in the military - simple as that.

Rubbish!

I have known loads of 20 somethings be taken on as trainee drivers (one was only 20 but thats another story ) and most did not have a degree but what they all did have some "real world" experiences during their short lives that they would not have got at university!

You believe what you want and we will know what we know!

There is no hard and fast rule so we can debate this until the cows come home, we will never agree, but a degree is not the be all and end all that some people seem to think it is, funny enough they are the ones with a degree.

I got a train drivers job with my two "O" levels and have never even been inside a university.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

and most did not have a degree but what they all did have some "real world" experiences during their short lives that they would not have got at university!

It depends what the degree is. When I've finished my degree, I'll bet you £10 (as a student, that's all I can afford!) I'll have considerably more "life experience" (however that's defined) than the majority of graduates, or people who have tried to get themselves a job straight from school.

A degree is not the be all and end all. But then again, neither is the alternative.

 

[455driver]

A degree is not the be all and end all. But then again, neither is the alternative.

Hence this bit of that post that you chose not to quote-

There is no hard and fast rule so we can debate this until the cows come home, we will never agree, but a degree is not the be all and end all that some people seem to think it is, funny enough they are the ones with a degree. .

Very selective! :roll:

What sort of degree gives you more "real world" experience than doing various jobs in the "real world" then, I am curious!

 

[southerner2174]

I will give my 2 cents worth, I went to uni, I left in the final year as things happened in my life and I lost all motivation to do what I was studying, I went full time into the catering industry and after getting 6 years experience I got offered a position in the railways, I will say getting the real world experience was definately a good thing but being at uni did make me grow up and did make me have to think about looking after myself, it made me self reliant so in reflection do I regret going to uni, no, do I regret leaving before graduating, no, everything I have done has led to me getting possibly the best job I could ever want which is driving.
meant to add, do I think going to uni helped me, yes I do as it made me self reliant and organised, do I think leaving before graduating made any difference, probably not, do I think 6 years in the world working helped, yes definitely!!!!

 

[sidekick]

I can see I have riled up some comments here, so I should clear up my opinions.

Without this degree there would be no way I would be starting my Driver Training in a few weeks time as someone in their early twenties unless I had gone straight in the military - simple as that.

You don't know that and that is your opinion, you quote this as a fact when in fact you may have still got the job if you had not done the degree
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Agree, it was poorly written - it is my opinion not fact.

This should say that without the opportunities my degree allowed, I'm not sure I would have had the desired experiences to pass the recruitment process. The piece of paper doesn't mean anything, but the large number of varied jobs and hobbies I've had during my degree has given me a considerable amount to talk about during interviews. In my opinion I am more experienced than your typical guy in his early 20's (Based on most of my friends who are the same age as me, and have taken many routes in life) Obviously you wouldn't just get that from sitting in lessons obviously.

You believe what you want and we will know what we know!

There is no hard and fast rule so we can debate this until the cows come home, we will never agree, but a degree is not the be all and end all that some people seem to think it is, funny enough they are the ones with a degree.

I'm not trying to cause an argument, but i'd just like to state I don't believe a degree is the be all and end all, and most of my course mates have the same opinion as me - however there is no denying that in the current day and age many jobs that previously didn't require degrees now require degrees. We could argue this a long time as you say, but for some a degree is required, simple as. For driving trains right now, obviously not.

Obviously I did not come here to cause an argument, I came here to reply to some biased comments about what certain students do; students are not all the same; partying constantly and wasting 4 years of their lives, and having a degree can help you get an excellent career. I'd also like to state that I feel I'm in a better position to gain another well paid career if for some reason I was unable to continue working in this industry (due to for example medical reasons). There are many jobs one can not apply to at entry level to without a degree these days, and I can say that confidently from a recent 6-7 month search for a decent job during this lengthy recruitment process. I don't agree things should be this way but it is the way things are unfortunately.

Good luck with your training

Thank you, I am very exited!

Anyway, I can see this going around and around so I'm out!

 

[reapz]

I can see I have riled up some comments here, so I should clear up my opinions.

"Without this degree there would be no way I would be starting my Driver Training in a few weeks time as someone in their early twenties unless I had gone straight in the military - simple as that."



Agree, it was poorly written - it is my opinion not fact.

This should say that without the opportunities my degree allowed, I'm not sure I would have had the desired experiences to pass the recruitment process. The piece of paper doesn't mean anything, but the large number of varied jobs and hobbies I've had during my degree has given me a considerable amount to talk about during interviews. In my opinion I am more experienced than your typical guy in his early 20's (Based on most of my friends who are the same age as me, and have taken many routes in life) Obviously you wouldn't just get that from sitting in lessons obviously.



I'm not trying to cause an argument, but i'd just like to state I don't believe a degree is the be all and end all, and most of my course mates have the same opinion as me - however there is no denying that in the current day and age many jobs that previously didn't require degrees now require degrees. We could argue this a long time as you say, but for some a degree is required, simple as. For driving trains right now, obviously not.

Obviously I did not come here to cause an argument, I came here to reply to some biased comments about what certain students do; students are not all the same; partying constantly and wasting 4 years of their lives, and having a degree can help you get an excellent career. I'd also like to state that I feel I'm in a better position to gain another well paid career if for some reason I was unable to continue working in this industry (due to for example medical reasons). There are many jobs one can not apply to at entry level to without a degree these days, and I can say that confidently from a recent 6-7 month search for a decent job during this lengthy recruitment process. I don't agree things should be this way but it is the way things are unfortunately.



Thank you, I am very exited!

Anyway, I can see this going around and around so I'm out!

Good luck sidekick good time of the year to start as you will get 1 leaf fall season with a DI.

 

[sidekick]

Thanks reapz, I had thought it will be fun to get a sample of some of the poorer conditions to drive trains in whilst under instruction!

 

[455driver]

I can see I have riled up some comments here, so I should clear up my opinions.

etc etc

The above post reads a lot differently from the (reading rather arrogantly) previous post which is probably a perfect example of what is whirling around in your head not reading the same way when its posted on a forum, hell I am guilty enough of it myself.

Good luck with the training and remember that if there is anything you are not sure of (no matter how stupid it might seem) then ask the trainer to clarify it rather than let a little thing snowball.

 

[TDK]

The reason why I say that someone leaving univercity has less chance is because of the sift questions below:

1 Shift work
2. working alone
3. working to strict rules and regs
4. working in a small team
5. customer service experience -

A uni leaver will not have much if any of these qualities however if lets say someone working in a factory in engineering will have some, probably shift work, working alone, in a small team, rules and regs and will stand a lot better chance of getting through the sift.

I wan't saying that uni leavers have no chance however read the above and you will understand my points! You also have someone leaving Uni with a degree in one subject, yes, they know a lot about this one subject but ask them to work out a problem outside their knowledge and lot are stuck.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

The reason why I say that someone leaving univercity has less chance is because of the sift questions below:

1 Shift work

I do shift work as part of my degree, and many students who have jobs also do shift work.

2. working alone

Again, many students have jobs as well as studying. Some of these will involve working alone.

3. working to strict rules and regs

I work to lots of different guidelines and policies.

4. working in a small team

Yep, I do that as part of my degree as well.

5. customer service experience -

I do a lot of that. Probably more than the average factory engineer.

I wan't saying that uni leavers have no chance however read the above and you will understand my points!

No, I don't understand your points. University students will have a lot of those skills. They will just be gained in a different manner to people who went straight into work.

You also have someone leaving Uni with a degree in one subject, yes, they know a lot about this one subject but ask them to work out a problem outside their knowledge and lot are stuck.

This is the point I really don't understand. Of course if you try and work outside the knowledge you have then you will find it difficult, degree or no degree. Ask an English student to solve a degree level mathematics problem then they will be stuck. Ask a factory engineer to go and do some accounting then they will be stuck.

It is far too simplistic to say degree is better, or work is better. It depends on the person involved. There are many people with degrees who would be unsuitable for train driving, and there will be many people who went straight into work who will be unsuitable for it as well.

 

[Silv1983]

The reason why I say that someone leaving univercity has less chance is because of the sift questions below:

1 Shift work
2. working alone
3. working to strict rules and regs
4. working in a small team
5. customer service experience -

A uni leaver will not have much if any of these qualities however if lets say someone working in a factory in engineering will have some, probably shift work, working alone, in a small team, rules and regs and will stand a lot better chance of getting through the sift.

I wan't saying that uni leavers have no chance however read the above and you will understand my points! You also have someone leaving Uni with a degree in one subject, yes, they know a lot about this one subject but ask them to work out a problem outside their knowledge and lot are stuck.

You'd be suprised just how many people at university have a job. And, because their lecture times are 9-5; these jobs almost always involve shiftwork.

Every summer throughout my studies I spent 4 months working 12 hours a day in an Asda distribution centre. I worked 2pm until 2am, sometimes alone if the wagon that needed unloading was small, or in a team if it was a big. There were lots of rules and regs to do with health and safety due to the environment and the fact that we were riding fork trucks everywhere. Customer service experience by definition was prevalent too.

So im afraid I break the mould of this fallacy.

Also, as mentioned earlier - where does this idea come from that students only know about one subject and are blithering idiots outside? Why are people who go into industry (doing often remedial and small repetitive tasks early in a career) far more knowledgeable? Again, as I said earlier - students study LESS each day than workers do their job - so there is MORE time for other hobbies, skills etc. I think whatever you've interviewed for in the past which has led you to this conclusion was probably something that didn't warrant a general cross-section of the population and did attract the types you describe earlier. This is the only logical explanation I can think of.

 

[A-driver]

Ok, my point about Uni leavers has been mis understood, possibly due to my wording but also as there has been a 'Chinese whisper' effect on here...

My original point was comparing Uni leavers to school leavers. Not those who have left school, started work and then applied for another job.

Those fresh out of school will not have had the experiences I described earlier than those who are out of Uni. If you are an employer the life skis gained from spending 3 years at Uni living alone will be more beneficial than someone who has just finished school at 18 and always lived at home.

I'm not comparing Uni to those who go straight into work-that is a different thing and all depends on the work the person has done as to who is more valuable.

 

[notadriver]

Can I just say that my manager has said he would be much less inclined to take on anyone under the age of 25 and so that would exclude graduates straight from University.

 

[loplop]

Deleted

 

[TDK]

Can I just say that my manager has said he would be much less inclined to take on anyone under the age of 25 and so that would exclude graduates straight from University.

And that is an ageist comment by you manager - shame on them

 

[A-driver]

And that is an ageist comment by you manager - shame on them

Stop being so high and mighty! Not all managers do things how you used to when you were managment and I'm sure this manager has his reasons which arnt just related to age!

 

[TDK]

Stop being so high and mighty! Not all managers do things how you used to when you were managment and I'm sure this manager has his reasons which arnt just related to age!

Managers are all high and mighty especially upper management and post up all sorts of guidelines and ageism is one of them as is sexism and racism. Unfortunately this day and age you just cannot say things like that, you can practice them yes, but to say this could cause them a lot of bother. Whether or not you agree on this and many do not it is now a way of life in this country.

And please explain why you thought I was being high and mighty with my comment?