Fantasy station/line/route re-openings and other projects

[30mog]

Ships on land?

Could a rail vehicle theoretically run on a gauge of say 10 or 12ft? If so, I think a trick was missed in history. Given all the stuff shipped in from China nowadays in containers. Could it come by land on huge trains that have containers stacked two abreast and two high? And triple deck passenger trains with more seats across ways than a jumbo jet.

So there you go. A giant gauge railway running all the way from Bradford to Beijing. Quite frankly, a non starter unless you are able to travel back to the mid 19th century of a parallel universe. But an idea nonetheless.

 

[SprinterMan]

Ships on land?

Could a rail vehicle theoretically run on a gauge of say 10 or 12ft? If so, I think a trick was missed in history. Given all the stuff shipped in from China nowadays in containers. Could it come by land on huge trains that have containers stacked two abreast and two high? And triple deck passenger trains with more seats across ways than a jumbo jet.

So there you go. A giant gauge railway running all the way from Bradford to Beijing. Quite frankly, a non starter unless you are able to travel back to the mid 19th century of a parallel universe. But an idea nonetheless.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitspurbahn

Something similar was proposed some years ago by someone you really wouldn't expect....
Adam

 

[RichmondCommu]

When I take the MML into St.P. I get off, get downstairs to FCC booking office ASAP and top up my Oystercard at the machine there. I have to see as little as possible of the place. Then usually leave on an FCC going a stop or two south - even if a bit of an illogical route. I have walked through the main concourse a few times - every time I felt a million faces were staring at me in disgust as if to suggest I had no right to be there. I honestly felt CRIMINALIZED! End of.

I'm interested to know why you feel so self concious when walking through the main concourse. I never feel that way when I walk through with my kids on the way up to watch Derby County play at home on a Saturday morning. What makes you any different to me or any of the other station users?

 

[Fred26]

Paranoia.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Did I see the phrase "fantasy re-openings" in the title of this thread.?

All aboard now for the next campaign to have a full system reopening of the Wick and Lybster Light Railway to go into full swing, heartened by the first successful part-opening infrastructural works on the Borders Railway...

 

[30mog]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breitspurbahn

Something similar was proposed some years ago by someone you really wouldn't expect....
Adam

Haven't checked your link yet but I feel the answer could be Adolf Hitler. Since the novel Fatherland hints at a train of similar description.

 

[43074]

My suggestions (this is complete fantasy after all):

• Re-open Leicester - Burton - Uttoxeter, to form part of an electrified freight route running from Felixtowe - Ely - Peterborough - Leicester - Burton - Uttoxeter - Stoke - Crewe - West Coast Main Line. Also electrify Leicester - Birmingham so Birmingham to Stansted can 'go electric'. Introduce passenger services between Leicester and the North West via Burton & Crewe. Doing the freight scheme stops freight trains from having to go through London to get to the WCML (North)
  
  
• New station at Soham and re-instate the Chippenham Junction curve between the Ely line and the Newmarket line, to avoid reversal at Kennett. You could run a Cambridge - Newmarket - Soham service at peak times (no need to go to Ely on this one).
  
  
• East Coast Upgrades
  New platforms on Darlington Up Goods Loop to avoid ECML expresses from having to cross the down fast into Darlington station, and new platforms 3 and 4 at Northallerton on the freight line to stop Middlesborough to Manchester services blocking the ECML Fast lines at Northallerton.
  Flying junctions at Wherrington Junction and in the Doncaster area. 4 tracking Peterborough to Huntingdon and new 'leaves' on the viaduct at Welwyn.
  Replacement of the Newark flat crossing with a flyover for Newark
  Demolish the Peterborough station area and rebuild from a blank canvas.
  
  
• In cab signalling on all lines to enable faster speeds and higher frequencies.
  
  
• Build HS2 with a high speed link to HS1
  
  
• Re-open Penrith to Keswick and electrify Oxenholme to Windermere.
  
  
• Complete Pacer replacement by 2020
  
  
• New Sea Wall avoiding line between Exeter and Newton Abbot. There was actually one of these proposed by the GWR in 1935.

 

[LE Greys]

Ships on land?

Could a rail vehicle theoretically run on a gauge of say 10 or 12ft? If so, I think a trick was missed in history. Given all the stuff shipped in from China nowadays in containers. Could it come by land on huge trains that have containers stacked two abreast and two high? And triple deck passenger trains with more seats across ways than a jumbo jet.

So there you go. A giant gauge railway running all the way from Bradford to Beijing. Quite frankly, a non starter unless you are able to travel back to the mid 19th century of a parallel universe. But an idea nonetheless.

Literally putting ships on land has been proposed a few times, the image below being from the 'Tehuantepec Oceanic Ship Railway' proposed to cross Panama instead of a canal in about 1880 <EDITED>. Note how, although the ship was huge for her day, she would have been dwarfed by ships built a couple of decades later, so the railway would have been hopelessly outdated. The three double-farlies hauling it are curious as well.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mining_and_Scientific_Press_-_March_28_1885_-_Interoceanic_Ship_Railway_%28206%29.png

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Is the triple-tracked railway you describe different from the proposed quadruple-tracked 140 mile long railway that was in a discussion period from 1880 to 1887 under the title of the Tehunatepec Interoceanic Ship Railway ?

 

[LE Greys]

Is the triple-tracked railway you describe different from the proposed quadruple-tracked 140 mile long railway that was in a discussion period from 1880 to 1887 under the title of the Tehunatepec Interoceanic Ship Railway ?

No it isn't, I don't know how that happened.

Not sure why the picture shows three lines rather than four either.

 

[edwin_m]

I seem to recall that the Panama Canal as built uses (or did use) some fairly large locos to pull the ships through the locks.

 

[LE Greys]

I seem to recall that the Panama Canal as built uses (or did use) some fairly large locos to pull the ships through the locks.

I believe you are referring to the mules, which are electric rack locos used for just this purpose. If you ever see the film about Flying Soctsman's return from California, the mules' ramp-climbing abilities and pulling power are shown off to good effect as they take the MV California Star (with the loco aboard) through Miaflores Locks.

 

[D6975]

Ripon, mentioned tongue-in-cheek earlier.

Reopen Harrogate - Ripon - Northallerton.
Electrified of course. Electrification of Leeds-Harrogate has been proposed before. Quite a few Yorkshire stoppers will be EMUs in the not too distant anyway under current plans.
This gives a ECML diversion route as a side benefit and the possibility of the occasional Newcastle - KX running via Harrogate and Leeds.

 

[LWB]

Just spent a sunny Bank Holiday Weekend Saturday motorcycling around and about the A65 and would now add re-opening the 'Little North Western' route from the other Clapham Junction through Ingleton to join the WCML. This will be set aside for heritage traffic that can't quite make mainline certification but diversionary traffic is allowed (to provide interest and income). Oh, and the heritage traffic will provide a local service too. Also, what a fantastic addition to the standard Carnforth run out.

 

[bicbasher]

To help relieve pressure on the ELL section between New Cross Gate and Sydenham, I'd bring back the Crystal Palace High Level branch from Nunhead.

This would include stations at Honor Oak to the west of Honor Oak Park station, Lordship Lane would be renamed Horniman Museum or Forest Hill West which is 0.5m from Forest Hill station and could be possibly underground beneath Horniman Park (not the gardens) considering a council estate is on the site of the station, Upper Sydenham on the existing site and CP High Level.

Services could be 4tph on this section. Either as 2tph to Victoria which would solve the lack of services to the station from Peckham Rye and Denmark Hill since the closure of the Inner SLL with 2tph as a shuttle service to Nunhead to connect to existing services to Victoria and Kentish Town/Blackfriars.

 

[HSTEd]

How about increasing the line speed on every inner commuter route to atleast 75mph and on every regional route to 100/110mph..... then electrifying the entire network.

Would mean that going from Norwich-Liverpool direct would actually be the fast way to do it.

I think Breckland line is signalled for 100mph now and the Grantham-Nottingham line looks like it could cope with 100mph even if its not 110mph.

 

[LE Greys]

How about increasing the line speed on every inner commuter route to atleast 75mph and on every regional route to 100/110mph..... then electrifying the entire network.

Would mean that going from Norwich-Liverpool direct would actually be the fast way to do it.

I think Breckland line is signalled for 100mph now and the Grantham-Nottingham line looks like it could cope with 100mph even if its not 110mph.

100% agreed. We need to make sure that this is for all multiple units rather than just sprinters (allowing Voyagers to deploy more widely). It might also raise the goods speed limit, which would be helpful in beating lorries for point-to-point times.

 

[Kettledrum]

Agree. The Crossing effctively throttles services east of it into Lincs and that is the root of many of the county's rail problems. My (fantasy?) solution aims to make a flyover much more useful by creating a Tamworth-style high level/low level interchange between the ECML and Lincs/East Notts

The Tamworth platform arrangement works really well. Any idea why it couldn't be done at Newark?

 

[LE Greys]

The Tamworth platform arrangement works really well. Any idea why it couldn't be done at Newark?

I believe it was looked into when they did Retford (1964/5) and they decided that a flyover would be difficult to build, because the embankments went too near the river and marshy ground, while a diveunder would be liable to flooding.

 

[HSTEd]

100% agreed. We need to make sure that this is for all multiple units rather than just sprinters (allowing Voyagers to deploy more widely). It might also raise the goods speed limit, which would be helpful in beating lorries for point-to-point times.

Electrification makes the Voyagers obsolete anyway.
SP limits can probably be easily converted into EMU limits, but I am afraid the Voyagers will be heading for the scrapline fairly soon anyway.

They are just too specialised.

 

[RichmondCommu]

It might also raise the goods speed limit, which would be helpful in beating lorries for point-to-point times.

The problem is the time taken to transfer from rail served warehouse to the final destination. Or the length of train required to make the traffic viable. And unfortunately it's highly unlikely that every town will have a rail served warehouse.

 

[Kettledrum]

I believe it was looked into when they did Retford (1964/5) and they decided that a flyover would be difficult to build, because the embankments went too near the river and marshy ground, while a diveunder would be liable to flooding.

Perhaps piling technology and flood protection technology has advanced significantly since then and it's worth looking again at this as an option

 

[edwin_m]

Perhaps piling technology and flood protection technology has advanced significantly since then and it's worth looking again at this as an option

The fact that the A46 is now elevated alongside suggests that this is possible.

 

[Andrewlong]

Speed up Reading to Waterloo line, longer trains with tables and wifi, more frequent service and create new platforms/passing loops to allow more semi-fast services.

Winnersh Triangle station to be rebuilt to have a lift plus a regular bus service to Lower Earley to save me having to drive.

Oh yes - trams in Reading please with services out to the suburbs.

 

[bangor-toad]

Hi,
The A46 Newark bypass (the section next to the Newark flat crossing) Google Maps Link is now the only single lane section between the A1 and M1 at Leicester. This will undoubtedly come up for dualling sometime soon.

Whilst building another road bridge wouldn't be easy, current technology is absolutely capable of putting piles for bridge supports close in to the river.

The question is would there be sufficient joined up thinking to build the span wide enough to support the road and railway next to it? OK, there would need to be load issues sorted out, a freight train will place a greater load on the structure than a few 38ton artics, but none of these should be insurmountable.
Oh, the costs of a combined build would invariably be cheaper and less disruptive than trying to do it all separately.

Cheers,
Jason

 

[Fred26]

How about a link from the LTS, along the route of the A130 towards the GE line, from there across to a link with the Crouch Valley Line, before continuing along the A130 to Chelmsford.

There'd be the following four way junctions:

- On the LTS towards both Benfleet and Southend Central, and towards Pitsea, Grays and Fenchurch Street.
- On the GE towards Rayleigh and Southend Victoria, and towards Wickford and Liverpool Street.
- On the Crouch Valley towards Southminster and perhaps the other way to Wickford.
- Finally, on the GE mainline towards Chelmsford and Colchester, with a possible connection towards Shenfield.

Services I'd run would be:

- Fenchurch Street via Grays - Chelmsford
- Fenchurch Street via Basildon - Colchester Town
- Southend Central - Chelmsford
- Southend Victoria - Southminster
- Southend Victoria - Ipswich

All one train per hour.

I'd build a new station at North Benfleet/Thundersly/Bowers Gifford, which would be just north of Sadlers Farm.
Also a new station to the east of Wickford at Shotgate, for the industrial estate and the housing estate there.

 

[LE Greys]

Electrification makes the Voyagers obsolete anyway.
SP limits can probably be easily converted into EMU limits, but I am afraid the Voyagers will be heading for the scrapline fairly soon anyway.

They are just too specialised.

Quite likely. Their nearest equivalent from the past would be the Swindon Inter-City units, that got squeezed out of their market in the 1970s (by loco-haulage from one side and former branch line DMUs from the other). I would hope that the 185s stay around for a while, although the civil engineering people might not agree with me.

The problem is the time taken to transfer from rail served warehouse to the final destination. Or the length of train required to make the traffic viable. And unfortunately it's highly unlikely that every town will have a rail served warehouse.

That's probably true as well. Still, increased speed for Freightliner should be very helpful. Apart from anything else, it ought to enable trains currently using main lines to divert elsewhere.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Hi,
The A46 Newark bypass (the section next to the Newark flat crossing) Google Maps Link is now the only single lane section between the A1 and M1 at Leicester. This will undoubtedly come up for dualling sometime soon.

Whilst building another road bridge wouldn't be easy, current technology is absolutely capable of putting piles for bridge supports close in to the river.

The question is would there be sufficient joined up thinking to build the span wide enough to support the road and railway next to it? OK, there would need to be load issues sorted out, a freight train will place a greater load on the structure than a few 38ton artics, but none of these should be insurmountable.
Oh, the costs of a combined build would invariably be cheaper and less disruptive than trying to do it all separately.

Cheers,
Jason

Sounds like a good idea, I reckon they should look at it.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How about a link from the LTS, along the route of the A130 towards the GE line, from there across to a link with the Crouch Valley Line, before continuing along the A130 to Chelmsford.

There'd be the following four way junctions:

- On the LTS towards both Benfleet and Southend Central, and towards Pitsea, Grays and Fenchurch Street.
- On the GE towards Rayleigh and Southend Victoria, and towards Wickford and Liverpool Street.
- On the Crouch Valley towards Southminster and perhaps the other way to Wickford.
- Finally, on the GE mainline towards Chelmsford and Colchester, with a possible connection towards Shenfield.

Services I'd run would be:

- Fenchurch Street via Grays - Chelmsford
- Fenchurch Street via Basildon - Colchester Town
- Southend Central - Chelmsford
- Southend Victoria - Southminster
- Southend Victoria - Ipswich

All one train per hour.

I'd build a new station at North Benfleet/Thundersly/Bowers Gifford, which would be just north of Sadlers Farm.
Also a new station to the east of Wickford at Shotgate, for the industrial estate and the housing estate there.

This also goes fairly near the London Gateway development, so it might be an option to send Freightliners northwards instead of towards Stratford. Connect Braintree to Stansted (provided the airport doesn't mind 1,000-ton good trains rolling under the runway) and that gives a potential route towards Ely and March. It would need a south-to-west connection at Whitham and an east-to-north at Thameshaven Junction.

 

[HSTEd]

The only way to practically boost freight train speeds significantly is to go for electric traction.... and as much as people keep laughing at me, probably freight multiple units for container traffic. (Can you say 90mph container traffic like the old Super-C in the US?)

 

[Willoughby]

Perhaps piling technology and flood protection technology has advanced significantly since then and it's worth looking again at this as an option

Yep agreed. A Tamworth-style interchange that made Nothgate a realy useful interchange for Lincs and Notts, and removed the speed/capacity constraint of the flat crossing should justify the investment in piling etc. Plus removal of the lincoln-northgate shuttle and selling off the current Nothgate site an car park would improve the BCR again.

 

[LE Greys]

The only way to practically boost freight train speeds significantly is to go for electric traction.... and as much as people keep laughing at me, probably freight multiple units for container traffic. (Can you say 90mph container traffic like the old Super-C in the US?)

Nothing to laugh about at all, I like the idea. I'm not sure whether Freightliner's current wagons can manage 90 when loaded, or even 75, but it's definitely worth looking at. The idea of upgrading regional lines, particularly the GN/GE Joint, was to try to clear any remaining goods off double-track sections of main lines, meaning fewer delays for passenger trains and no loss of time for the goods.