Abbey line (St. Albans) no longer to be converted to light rail

[north]

Apologies if this is in the wrong place or already posted.

It appears that Hearts CC and the department for transport are no longer considering converting the abbey line to light rail use. Apparently the difficulties of reassigning land and other issues were too difficult.

See http://www.hertsdirect.org/docs/pdf/a/alnews6.pdf

...having looked into the possibility of taking the line out of Network Rail ownership and separating it from the London Midland franchise, it became clear that there were some significant obstacles. Issues around the structure of the national rail industry and national fare structures dating back to the British Rail days have proved very complicated to unpick.

The proposal turned out to be considerably more complicated than originally expected and we have found that it is not possible to deliver light rail within the available funding.

The Abbey Line Project Board (including Network Rail, DfT and HCC) has concluded that it is not possible to deliver a more frequent service for the same cost as the current service. Therefore, the DfT has decided to step back from the plan to transfer the line to HCC aswell as the decision to convert the line to light rail at this point in time...

I think it's a shame as the line would be much useful with a higher frequency.

 

[WatcherZero]

I.e. The issue was red tape rather than physical.

To be honest this is going to be a problem encountered by all smaller local authorities trying to take on major transport roles outside Metropolitan areas where that kind of technical and legal experience and resources dont exist.

 

[Trog]

Who would have wanted to travel over the remaining sections of 1950/60's bullhead track in a tram anyway?

 

[northwichcat]

Who would have wanted to travel over the remaining sections of 1950/60's bullhead track in a tram anyway?

I believe it was to be tram-trains rather than traditional trams which would have allowed the vehicles to travel on the National Rail network to depots and for maintenance.

 

[asylumxl]

Herts County Council added an extra layer to the original plans, which made the project unviable.

 

[John Webb]

I wonder if the fairly recently installed passing loop at Penryn on the Falmouth branch could show how to reinstate the passing loop at Bricket Wood? This, by the way, is the second time an attempt to get the passing loop reinstated, the previous one just over a decade ago failed due to the expense and triggered off the consideration of a 'tram-train' which has also failed.

Shame - traffic on the line has risen and an additional train would be appreciated by those living in the catchment area of the line.

 

[tbtc]

A bit like the "lets put Parry People Movers on branch lines", I can see the logic up to a point, until you reach the stage of having something non-standard (which a small "tram-based" scheme like this would be).

Understandable that its easier to keep buggering on with a 321 (even if a 321 isn't the ideal choice of unit for the line).

 

[mister-sparky]

Good. It was a stupid idea in the first place. It's a railway line not a tram line.

 

[WatcherZero]

The implication from the document seems to be no funding for improvements on the line will be forthcoming for a long time now this schemes been abandoned. Heavy rail investment wont produce a justifable return for a new TOC who may decide its better to make it a parliamentary service (NR abandoned plans in 2007 for 2.6km of track renewals as not producing a suitable return on the investment and decided to maintain the line on an ad hoc basis, which is what prompted this scheme in the first place, I believe the signalling is also approaching end of life?).

 

[Antman]

Good. It was a stupid idea in the first place. It's a railway line not a tram line.

So was much of Croydon Tramlink

 

[samxool]

So was much of Croydon Tramlink

but the dsitances between stations is much less on tramlink.
the st abbey line tram idea was stupid.
glad it got canned.

 

[Bald Rick]

I believe the signalling is also approaching end of life?).

What signalling

 

[Poggs]

What signalling

WJ752 on platform 10 - it's still a signal even if it's a fixed red with a shunt signal.

 

[gazthomas]

Is there still scope for a passing loop?

 

[sheff'd victoria]

Am I thinking of the right line, Is this the one that runs a funny service every 45 minutes ?

 

[Eagle]

but the dsitances between stations is much less on tramlink.

No. That's because a lot of the stations were added after it was converted to tram use. When Wimbledon to Croydon was a BR line the stations were spaced out about as far as they are on the Abbey line.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

I too share the relief among some in this thread that it has been cancelled.

Out of interest, in heavy rail terms, would a passing loop at Bricket Wood (which isn't beyond the realms of possibility) allow a half hourly service? That's assuming of course there's a spare (or easily sourced) 321 knocking about too.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Am I thinking of the right line, Is this the one that runs a funny service every 45 minutes ?

Yes. The only other line I can think of with such a service interval is Wickford-Southminster in Essex.

 

[Eagle]

That's assuming of course there's a spare (or easily sourced) 321 knocking about too.

The influx of new 350/3s (or the /4s when TPE are finished with them in about five years' time) could probably free one up.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

No. That's because a lot of the stations were added after it was converted to tram use. When Wimbledon to Croydon was a BR line the stations were spaced out about as far as they are on the Abbey line.

From the relevant Quail Maps (the '90s edition in both cases):
Watford Jn-Watford North - 0m 60c
Watford North-Garston - 0m 68c
Garston-Bricket Wood - 1m 54c
Bricket Wood-How Wood - 1m 0c
How Wood-Park Street - 0m 48c
Park Street-St Albans Abbey - 1m 40c

Wimbledon-Merton Park - 0m 61c (not entirely clear)
Merton Park-Morden Road - 0m 37c
Morden Road-Mitcham - 1m 16c
Mitcham-Mitcham Jn - 0m 60c
Mitcham Jn-Beddington Lane - 0m 53c
Beddington Lane-Waddon Marsh - 1m 22c
Waddon Marsh-West Croydon - 1m 13c

So yep, very similar!

 

[yorksrob]

To Echo the sentiment of a previous poster, let Cornwall show them the way to a passing loop.

 

[bluenoxid]

Being absolutely holistic with infrastructure at the end of its life, would busway conversion be a better option? Would this offer better connections eg to the other St Albans station?

 

[yorksrob]

Being absolutely holistic with infrastructure at the end of its life, would busway conversion be a better option? Would this offer better connections eg to the other St Albans station?

Aside from my natural antipathy towards bus transportation, is it really going to be so much more cheaper to concrete over the whole thing than to just renew the railway ?

Plus I‘m not convinced that replacing an electrified railway with buses is going to tick the right environmental boxes if you know what I mean.

 

[Trog]

Being absolutely holistic with infrastructure at the end of its life, would busway conversion be a better option? Would this offer better connections eg to the other St Albans station?

While some of the track on the Abbey Branch is old, about half of it is only about ten years old. If you divide the life of a rail by the annual traffic on the Abbey branch you probably get a figure in the hundreds of years bracket. So no hurry to convert it to a busway yet.

 

[Antman]

Wasn't the plan that trams would contine on street up the hill to St Albans City centre?

Seemed a good idea to me but maybe I'm missing something?

 

[WatcherZero]

That was a possible future phase, basic plan was increased frequency installing a passing loop and using cheaper tram signalling combined with cheaper renewals of existing infrastucture than if it was heavy rail. Would have been high-floor like Manchester.

Problem seems to have come down to St Albans Council being unable to offer integrated ticketing and recieving its proper share of fare revenue.

 

[bluenoxid]

Aside from my natural antipathy towards bus transportation, is it really going to be so much more cheaper to concrete over the whole thing than to just renew the railway ?

Plus I‘m not convinced that replacing an electrified railway with buses is going to tick the right environmental boxes if you know what I mean.

Trolleybus?

 

[John Webb]

Wasn't the plan that trams would contine on street up the hill to St Albans City centre?

Seemed a good idea to me but maybe I'm missing something?

This was discussed at length on a previous thread. Basically the street layout in St Albans is based on the pre-Victorian city layout and generally with matching narrow roads - I am very uncertain how a tram system could be fitted in together with the road traffic that exists, including the numerous bus routes.

 

[asylumxl]

This was discussed at length on a previous thread. Basically the street layout in St Albans is based on the pre-Victorian city layout and generally with matching narrow roads - I am very uncertain how a tram system could be fitted in together with the road traffic that exists, including the numerous bus routes.

It's pretty steep up Hollywell Hill too. There's plenty to block it ever being extended to City too unfortunately.

 

[34D]

Its a shame a tunnel under the WCML can't be built, and this branch line converted to Metropolitan line.

 

[edwin_m]

As a long term aspiration it could have reversed at Abbey and continued eastwards on the disused line to Hatfield and perhaps even by new infrastructure onto the old Welwyn-Hertford line. East-west public transport links in Hertfordshire mostly rely on buses and I should imagine suffer greatly from road congestion. This would of course have been very long-term and not at all easy, but less difficult for a tram than for heavy rail.