East Coast dry train trial

[transmanche]

My concern would be the prohibition on the carrying of sealed bottles intended for gifts, rather than en-route consumption.

There's a mountain/molehill juxtaposition being created here.

I'm sure you can recognise the difference between a six-pack of Tennents Extra in a carrier bag and an expensive bottle of single malt packed in your case. A policeman will be interested in one and unconcerned by the other

But if you go up to a policeman and tell them you have a gift-wrapped bottle of whisky in your case, then you may leave them no choice...

 

[reb0118]

I find this East Coast to be disgrac[e]ful as the bye-law clearly states that no alcohol onto the train. I travel on this train and will be doing next Friday and always bring a bottle of whisky back for friend. The byelaw states that to do this I must break the law as no alcohol is allowed to be carried by passengers on this train. East Coast obviously trying to make in[n]cocent people into criminals. This is nothing to do with wanting to consume alcohol either just carrying back as a present.

The byelaw states this as a catch all. I can assure you that if you have sealed alcohol in a bag (a clear poly bag is not a good idea though) then you will have no problems as long as it remains there and you do not attempt to drink it on board. This info is from a BTP member who will be enforcing the regulations on this route. Also NB EC staff who work the train have stated that they will not be searching bags.

That said, if your behaviour at the station is suspect then the BTP may search you - probably for various reasons. So if you do not act pished on the platform then you have nowt to fear.

They won't be searching luggage and even if they did-they are trying to prevent people from drinking on the train. If you have a sealed bottle in your bag then they won't even know about it-and if they do they will know you arn[']t bringing it on to drink so no need to over react like that.

Spot on, bonny lad!

So you are encouraging me. to break the law I take it then I can break other railway bywlaws

No one is encouraging you to break any laws but if it makes you feel better a) don't take the whisky or b) make sure it is clearly wrapped up as a present.

I'm sure the byelaw with regard to permitted hours on Scotrail services is written the same but again the design is not to stop people carrying alcohol for later use (or as a gift) but to stop excessive consumption on board. We have been instructed not to search bags ~ that is a job for the BTP.

The reason the byelaw also mentions the carrying of alcohol is that it gives the BTP the right to confiscate the said alcohol if, in the opinion of the officer, he feels that there is a likelihood of you drinking that on board. If the officer believes that the alcohol is for later use or in fact if it is a gift (suitably wrapped up?) he can show discretion and allow you to take it on board.

Sorted.

 

[D1009]

Sorry, but I think you need to get over yourself with the attitude of not wanting to be told what to do. If everyone took this attitude then nothing would work! Its exactly the same attitude that causes delays in the rush hour when train crews and platform staff call for people to move back so that they can see to dispatch a train and no one moves-they won't be told what to do by some railway employee.

Its rather pathetic to be that anti authority really.

If that's what you meant, I'd have to agree, but I fail to see how it's relevant to this discussion. Going back to your point about comparison with the service provided by the airlines, has it occurred to you that this is why people choose the train rather than the plane, particularly for a journey like Aberdeen to London? To me, the logical conclusion to some of your rather repetitive posts (and I have read quite a lot of them before putting in my twopenn'orth) is that however much I pay for a ticket, all the railway has to do is get me from A to B. Any enhanced customer service, and the jobs that go in providing it, are unnecessary and can be done away with for any reason or no reason. Similarly the examples of excellent customer service that I see on my frequent travels around the network are also unnecessary.

 

[A-driver]

If that's what you meant, I'd have to agree, but I fail to see how it's relevant to this discussion. Going back to your point about comparison with the service provided by the airlines, has it occurred to you that this is why people choose the train rather than the plane, particularly for a journey like Aberdeen to London? To me, the logical conclusion to some of your rather repetitive posts (and I have read quite a lot of them before putting in my twopenn'orth) is that however much I pay for a ticket, all the railway has to do is get me from A to B. Any enhanced customer service, and the jobs that go in providing it, are unnecessary and can be done away with for any reason or no reason. Similarly the examples of excellent customer service that I see on my frequent travels around the network are also unnecessary.

I'm not sure that I follow you here but I do agree-you pay for a ticket from a-b. companies have no need to feed or water you on the way-some do as there is a business case for it. But all you are paying for is your journey then the company are free, if necessary, to ban you doing anything onboard that they feel create problems such as smoking, feet in seats, playing music out loud, swearing, spitting and in this case drinking alcohol. If you feel so strongly against these rules then you are perfectly free to not board the train and instead drive, catch a bus, walk, cycle, take a helicopter or whatever else you wish to do.

 

[CallySleeper]

Meanwhile, is anyone actually able to feedback from how it went on Friday?!

 

[DXMachina]

To me, the logical conclusion to some of your rather repetitive posts (and I have read quite a lot of them before putting in my twopenn'orth) is that however much I pay for a ticket, all the railway has to do is get me from A to B.

If you were going to buy a car, would you protest the injustice of being forced to pay for a radio/CD player as unnecessary to the car's purpose of conveying you from A to B without having to hear 'The Archers' ?

 

[scotsman]

Meanwhile, 60% of the world doesn't have enough to eat...

 

[Blindtraveler]

They appear to have botched this slightly. How on earth is someone who doesn't read their website who has bought their ticket from the station supposed to know that this restriction has been imposed, and therefore know not to attempt to bring a bottle for later (I know I like a bottle of beer when travelling in the afternoon sorta time)

only slightly? Majorly more like - any passenger wishiog to avoid this could use the oil rigger express AKA the EC 07:52 ABD>KGX with buffet and full FC service with FC booz from EDB OR THE xC 08:20 ABD>PNZ with trolley from EDB onwards and BYOB policy before that.
For those alergic to voyagers and/or early rises could take the Scotrail services just before and after the HST and drink after 10 with a short break from it whilst changing at Edinburgh. Also worth noting that this is all Scotrails fault anyway and as a regular user of runs from ABD i can tell you this booþ 09.52 was never boozy before there stupid ban in the first place!

 

[Butts]

Meanwhile, 60% of the ec passengers don't have enough to eat...

This threads about Alcohol on East Coast - not the catering -sorry couldn't resist !!

 

[A-driver]

only slightly? Majorly more like - any passenger wishiog to avoid this could use the oil rigger express AKA the EC 07:52 ABD>KGX with buffet and full FC service with FC booz from EDB OR THE xC 08:20 ABD>PNZ with trolley from EDB onwards and BYOB policy before that.
For those alergic to voyagers and/or early rises could take the Scotrail services just before and after the HST and drink after 10 with a short break from it whilst changing at Edinburgh. Also worth noting that this is all Scotrails fault anyway and as a regular user of runs from ABD i can tell you this booþ 09.52 was never boozy before there stupid ban in the first place!

Wow-the rather dramatic but huge over reactions keep on coming!

I honestly can't believe that people have nothing else to do with their time or worry about than how they won't be able to drink alcohol for 3 hours under a system being trialled for the benefit of everyone and done after looking at evidence and other options!

This really is a very entertaining thread!

 

[Antman]

Wow-the rather dramatic but huge over reactions keep on coming!

I honestly can't believe that people have nothing else to do with their time or worry about than how they won't be able to drink alcohol for 3 hours under a system being trialled for the benefit of everyone and done after looking at evidence and other options!

This really is a very entertaining thread!

You seem worried than anybody

Entertaining thread?

 

[A-driver]

You seem worried than anybody

Entertaining thread?

I'm not worried-I enjoy a beer in a train ride as much as anyone but if any operator were to introduce a ban I couldn't care less-as long as the train still gets me to where I am going. I regularly travel between peterbourgh and Aberdeen in first class and whilst the alcohol is nice I wouldn't see it as the end of the world if they banned it.

I'm just enjoying watching all the over reactions to this non story! Too many people on here seem to believe that TOCs and their staff are just out to cause trouble and be awkward. They don't realise that policies like this are very well thought through and only done in reaction to a problem and are certainly not taken lightly. They also just want to argue against such policies for the sake of it-some posters on here are very obviously anti authority or being told what to do as they obviously know best...

Its fine to have a 'dream' of an ideal world and railway but in reality steps like this need to be taken from time to time. You just get over it and move on, as I keep saying, its a very, very, very minor deal. I'm sure its not going to kill you and if you are that against such a policy I strongly recommend you vote with your feet and stop using the train.

 

[Antman]

I'm sure like most of us you enjoy a beer or two without causing any problem to anybody, alcohol bans like this tar us all with the same brush.

 

[A-driver]

I'm sure like most of us you enjoy a beer or two without causing any problem to anybody, alcohol bans like this tar us all with the same brush.

That's exactly it though, they don't tar is all with the same brush. Being prohibited from taking sharp objects and liquids onto aircraft dosnt tar us all as terrorists, its a preventitive measure. They are a control measure to prevent a problem. Its far better to prevent problems on specific trains (including football trains) than to end up with delays or costly policing to react to problems as they occur.

No one is that desperate for alcohol that they would prefer abusive passengers and delays just so they can have a drink and most adults will understand the need for such action from time to time. It dosnt really inconvenience anyone or disrupt your journey-you will survive without the drink for a bit and as has been said multiple times, there are other trains you can catch instead.

 

[Blindtraveler]

wrong. The pax on tqe earlier formentionded direct ABD>NCL trains will be inconvenienced by the hen and stag parties that ECs
9.52 will doubtless nolonger carry. These same pax were earlier inconveienced by Scotrails rediculous ban which caused this problem in the firs problem. As stated earlier I regularly use the train in question and the problem (yes I admit is a problem) of party animalr having a few too many on this train only became such when SRs booz ban started as its now the first train many of the partiers chose as it allows drinkers and convays a buffet. Historically the 09:07 carried many such pax who changed at EDB for the south.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
in short to solve this entirely all trains from start of service need to be dry till mid or late morning in a bit of rare cooperation between all in the industry.

 

[A-driver]

wrong. The pax on tqe earlier formentionded direct ABD>NCL trains will be inconvenienced by the hen and stag parties that ECs
9.52 will doubtless nolonger carry. These same pax were earlier inconveienced by Scotrails rediculous ban which caused this problem in the firs problem. As stated earlier I regularly use the train in question and the problem (yes I admit is a problem) of party animalr having a few too many on this train only became such when SRs booz ban started as its now the first train many of the partiers chose as it allows drinkers and convays a buffet. Historically the 09:07 carried many such pax who changed at EDB for the south.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
in short to solve this entirely all trains from start of service need to be dry till mid or late morning in a bit of rare cooperation between all in the industry.

You are missing an important point. This service obviously sees more than its fair share of drinkers and by banning drink on this train it will disperse the crowds. So rather than having 4 groups on one train you will either have the 4 groups travelling sober or if they wish to drink they will do so in other trains-but its very unlikely to be the same other train. Some will get an earlier one, some a later one, some at a different time of day.

It just makes it easier to control on this particular train.

As I have said, east coast & the BTP have thought this through and do actually (funnily enough as the professionals here, not the google experts and armchair enthusiasts) know what they are doing.

Its much the same as closing the tube station closest to a big event in London-it dosnt just move all the crowds onto the next station but disperses them more equally amongst other stations making it all far easier to control.

 

[CallySleeper]

Did anyone ever consider that the problem EC/SR/BTP is trying to 'solve' is in fact more like a depressing cultural problem of a) a social desire to drink excessively because it's acceptable/the key to a great time and b) doing so at 10am

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Did anyone ever consider that the problem EC/SR/BTP is trying to 'solve' is in fact more like a depressing cultural problem of a) a social desire to drink excessively because it's acceptable/the key to a great time and b) doing so at 10am

Yes.
It's quite a familiar argument to me (professionally), and I must agree that it is a depressing reflection on our culture.

Many operators of bars, cafes, hotels etc. have applied for extensions to their Premises Licence to permit the sale of alcohol from 10, 9 or even 8am. The arguments on both sides have been well aired, but sadly, little if any evidence is available to rebut those applications effectively. So, the situation continues to get worse (or better - depending on your point of view).

 

[Searle]

Wow-the rather dramatic but huge over reactions keep on coming!

I honestly can't believe that people have nothing else to do with their time or worry about than how they won't be able to drink alcohol for 3 hours under a system being trialled for the benefit of everyone and done after looking at evidence and other options!

This really is a very entertaining thread!

You're the one entertaining me, making >15 replies to apparently a "non-thread"

 

[A-driver]

You're the one entertaining me, making >15 replies to apparently a "non-thread"

Well I know, but I can't get over the reactions from people. I'm just standing my ground though, not trying to justify the argument against this scheme which so far I am yet to see any real genuine arguments against it!

I was going to stop reading this thread pages ago but curiosity got the better if me and I can't seem to bring myself to let some of the rubbish being spouted lie without response! Its a weakness I guess.

 

[Gwenllian2001]

There's enough froth on here to make me complain to the barmaid.

 

[Altnabreac]

A few years back I boarded the Edinburgh - Glasgow Queen St service at 7am and bagged a set of four seats to myself.

At Haymarket 2 guys and a girl sat around me and then purchased from the Guard 2 returns and 1 single to Paisley Gilmour St using Virgin Rail Travel Vouchers that they advised me they had acquired from "a friend in Wester Hailes".

The trolley then came round and they proceeded to order 9 Gins, 3 cans of Bitter Lemon and 3 packets of salt & vinegar crisps. An argument ensued when the trolley guy explained they couldn't pay for drinks with RTVs and the order had to be scaled back to 6 gins, 3 bitter lemons and no crisps. They were still 50p short however so I chipped in to pay the balance and declined the kind offer of a slug of gin in exchange.

I got chatting to them about their unusual Trip and it transpired they were en-route to Paisley Sheriff Court where one of them was likely too get sent down "for a fair long while" - hence the single fare. They advised me that Gin and Bitter Lemon is the connoisseurs pre court hearing drink as it smells like lemonade on your breath.

It's very unfair that these dry trains don't take into account the needs of passengers such as these, who may not be able to drink for months afterwards!