Will the Buxton line ever see a 158?

[RailProfileUK]

I work in the high peak (on the railway) as some of you might already know and quite often I work on the Buxton line often which starts at Edgeley junction south side of Stockport station and terminates 19 miles on at Buxton. Various classes of passenger loco's have used the route in the past, 101 DMU's, class 31's pulling coaches, 142 pacers and presently 150's and 156's.

I am wondering if there a reason why they haven't upgraded to a 158? Is this classed as an express DMU? There are 10 stations on the route including Buxton and they are all around 2 miles apart, does this make the 158 unsuitable?

Probably the 150 and 156 have a lot of life left in them? The 142 pacers still use the line between Manchester Piccadilly and Hazel Grove but the 150 and 156 go as far as Buxton. To travel on the 150/156 they seem a little dated, a 158 would be a little better but when will we see them on there? Or if not a 158 what else could be suitable? The line also has no AC/DC diesel only.

 

[rebmcr]

I believe the A/C boxes on 158s are deemed a bridge strike risk.

 

[PHILIPE]

Also Pacers do not go to Buxton due to steep gradients and a performance issue. Sole domain of 150s and 156s.

 

[RailProfileUK]

Yeah there are some tight clearance's on the Buxton line Eaves tunnel especially just past Chapel en le Frith where no tamping or stone blowing is allowed. I have used the Clear route programme after a laser sweep and survey and when importing the locomotive classes from the sectional appendix the 158 is included for some reason along with quite a few other locomotives that never use the line (Probably because if running a larger profile loco all the loco's smaller will automatically be included) and there doesn't seem to be any restriction on them. There is on the 66 though on the down road or used to be, I cab rode a 47 through Eaves tunnel a month ago and it was extremely tight and I have seen bridge strikes in the past.

I agree the pacer would struggle up some of the gradients on the line, Dove holes I think is the second highest station in England?

 

[jizzer]

A 158 went up there many moons ago to see if it would fit and as far as I'm aware it was incident free. A 142 has also visited Buxton (unintentionally) but that's another story.

 

[RailProfileUK]

Can you expand on that infomation by any chance Jizzer? Cheers

 

[northwichcat]

Also Pacers do not go to Buxton due to steep gradients and a performance issue. Sole domain of 150s and 156s.

Also 153s and 155s can't go the Buxton. Not that a 143, 144 or 155 would ever go near the Stockport area at present.
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A 142 has also visited Buxton (unintentionally) but that's another story.

I think the concern with 142s and Buxton is that if all engines are on full power then it'll get there and back but any kind of engine fault develops in service then the train may not even make it to the next station.
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I believe the A/C boxes on 158s are deemed a bridge strike risk.

I thought that changed when the air conditioning system was modified to not use CFCs or maybe as a result of a modification at a different time.

 

[rebmcr]

I thought that changed when the air conditioning system was modified to not use CFCs or maybe as a result of a modification at a different time.

As far as I was aware, the pre-existing A/C design used CFCs, but when it came to build the 158s, a version with different gas was installed. So it probably wouldn't have altered the physical size but even if it did, that was before they even entered service, never mind being after being non-cleared for the Buxton line.

 

[CJ]

Also 153s and 155s can't go the Buxton. Not that a 143, 144 or 155 would ever go near the Stockport area at present.
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Well, a 144 has appeared at Stockport before
(even if it was a long time ago!)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2577/4036726385_6a3358ffd0.jpg

 

[tbtc]

I am wondering if there a reason why they haven't upgraded to a 158?

I think its partly because of the way that Northern have split their DMU fleet up so that 144s, 155s and 158s are "Yorkshire" based and most 150s/ most 156s are "Lancashire" based. Makes sense on most levels, but does mean that some "Lancashire" routes see a 156 that may be able to justify a 158.

In a few years time there are going to be some "spare" 185s (from TPE) and some spare 170s (from TPE and London Midland) that could do the Buxton line (I've argued for 185s a few times on here).

The problem is that, if the franchise boundaries stay the same, all of the other "Lancashire" routes operated by Northern that a 158 would be suited to work (Manchester Airport to Liverpool, Liverpool South Parkway to Blackpool, Blackpool to Manchester Victoria) are going to be EMU operated, so (unless TOC boundaries change) it'd be hard to justify a small fleet of "express" DMUs for the Buxton line.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

In a few years time there are going to be some "spare" 185s (from TPE) and some spare 170s (from TPE and London Midland) that could do the Buxton line (I've argued for 185s a few times on here).

After the Ordsall Chord was fully operational, could a Bradford Interchange to Buxton service using Class 185 units be a feasible proposition noting that electrification of both the Buxton route and the Calder Valley route are not on the current horizon ?

 

[tbtc]

After the Ordsall Chord was fully operational, could a Bradford Interchange to Buxton service using Class 185 units be a feasible proposition noting that electrification of both the Buxton route and the Calder Valley route are not on the current horizon ?

Sounds like a sensible way of linking two routes out of Manchester that would both suit 185s - good thinking Paul

 

[northwichcat]

Well, a 144 has appeared at Stockport before
(even if it was a long time ago!)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2577/4036726385_6a3358ffd0.jpg

A load appeared a few years ago at Longsight due to major flooding in Yorkshire. However, they weren't used in passenger service.

 

[RailProfileUK]

A 170 or a 185 would be nice too, watching the 150's/156's go up the line make the area look dated a nice moderen unit would certainly brighten the place up. In the diesel world I would like to bring back the older stuff, this is the only time I think of the modern stock in a good way.

 

[sprinterguy]

I personally think that there is no stock better suited to the Buxton branch than the present mix of 150s and 156s. The problem lies in the fact that the units of these classes operated by Northern have not seen a refurbishment in many years (In most cases) and are often scruffy.

 

[SeanG]

I wouldn't say that about the 150s, however the 156s yes.

The Buxton line is ripe for day trippers from Greater Manchester so I think the tables and 2+2 seating is better suited

 

[RailProfileUK]

Thats a good point the 156 has the tables and the 150 doesn't. Didn't think of it like that.

 

[CJ]

A load appeared a few years ago at Longsight due to major flooding in Yorkshire. However, they weren't used in passenger service.

Just did a quick Google search and you are indeed correct!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dwbphotos/4276182043/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/dwbphotos/4033001916/

(although these show that they were stable at Stockport for the time).

Due to flooding in Sheffield and didnt happen not too long ago either (2007).

 

[Yew]

The problem lies in the fact that the units of these classes operated by Northern have not seen a refurbishment in many years (In most cases) and are often scruffy.

Nail +Head = Hit.

Look at an EMT 156 compared to a northern one, or even a northern 158, and tell me which train is better inside. Hopefully the next franchise will have funds for a full refurbishment of all the Sprinters.