I'm currrently on a train from Leeds to Selby. The conductor has just announced over the PA that, due to the number of people standing, he is unable to sell tickets so any passengers requiring one should come to him at the rear of the train. Now, leaving aside the fact that there are only around eight passengers standing in my coach and a similar number in the adjoining coach so him being able to get through the train is far from difficult, if it wasn't possible for him to find a way through, why does he think its possible for passengers to get to him? Also, what's less desirable? One man having to squeeze past passengers once or multiple passengers having to squeeze past others to get to him?
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Selling tickets and standing passengers
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transmanche
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Don't Northern have a rule that conductors must do door duties from the rear? I guess the conductor thinks he may not be able to pass through the train selling tickets and get back to the rear doors without delaying the train? Just a possibility...
Cliveblackpool
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dk1
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Sounds a bit of a lazy so & so to me 
Sleepy
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:roll: He also needs more room to move through train with Advantix and other equipment (and might be fat LOL) 
Sounds a bit of a lazy so & so to me
Not always the case. I'm revenue daft but on occassion have found it nye on impossible to get away from the back door, esp. on stopping trains. Now a quick tannoy lets the passengers know the score and gives them the option to move nearer the guard or queue up at their destination. If I have time I'll pop round the barrier upon arrival & help out too.
A few caveats though:-
if all the passengers requiring tickets came at once this could be a problem
it can give the fare dodgers a heads up!
dk1
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Agreed but i know many conductors who use the 'FAS' tag as an excuse to going through.
Howardh
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How far off are we from what you do when you want to park? ie. get on a train, text your journey to a number and it either takes that money out of your phone account or you can have it taken from your card. Text back states your journey and how much you have paid. Job done from your seat, conductor comes round, you show him your text screen?
Or - does it already happen in some form or other?
Or - does it already happen in some form or other?
You'd be stuffed if your battery dies though
Not really, I'd expect there to be contactless chargers on tables/seatbacks when this sort of thing becomes the norm.
Smart tickets are being pushed by DfT for all public transport opirators (including buses), so there maybe something during the next franchise.
It has many advantages for the TOC, including lower renewal costs for season tickets.
SWT's Smartcard scheme was the first to go live as a trial at the end of 2009. SWT, Southern and EMT have smartcards available for travel across much of their networks with some SWT and Southern passengers having rail and bus seasons loaded to their cards...
You'd be stuffed if your battery dies though
One way round that would be if a message was also sent to the conductor on he train where the passenger has just bought the ticket on heir phone. If the message showed the last four digits of the card used then the passenger could use showing the card as proof if the phone died.
hairyhandedfool
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M-tickets are used by Chiltern Trains, East Coast and XC. It is the passenger's responsibility to make sure their phone is charged and people have been 'caught out' by dead batteries.
Pay as you go ticketing like this would be a fare evader's dream, only buying a ticket when the guard comes down the train.
armadillomaste
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Arriva do phoen tickets on their buses in west Yorks.
Don't see why trains couldn't be the same. Apart from ticket barriers...
Don't see why trains couldn't be the same. Apart from ticket barriers...
northwichcat
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That option is used for car parking (alongside the traditional ticket machines) in many areas.
However, I don't think it'll really work for train tickets after you've boarded if the conductor can't get around. If you're on Pay As You Go, you normally top-up £10 at a time. If you're down to £4.70, you've still got almost half your credit so don't think you need to top up but you can't then use it to pay for your £8 ticket even if you have £50 cash available in the wallet in your pocket.
Also it relies on a mobile phone signal. I can't see it working on Hope Valley services, for instance.
transmanche
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Arriva do on buses in Kent as well but a dead battery and you're stuffed
As long as hey're offered on trains hat have sockets there isn't really an excuse for dead batteries.
hairyhandedfool
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If that isn't a reason not to do it, I don't know what is!
Asian Demon
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It depends on which area of Northern. If you are part of the west side of the company (ex FNW), the conductor must do the doors from the rear at all times unless it is impossible to do so aka can't view the whole train due to curvature of the platform etc etc. If the conductor is from the east side of the company (ex Arriva) then you can do doors from anywhere but the front of the train. The joys of lack of harmonisation of terms and conditions. If trains are rammed and it's not possible to go through, then conductors will not delay services or risk getting stuck in the middle of a train for the sake of a couple of quid (ticket monkeys excluded).
For revenue collection when you have two compatible units coupled up, It can be a nightmare. The train must run safely and to time. I know people may not like to hear it but a lot of TOC's are more concerned with delay attribution than revenue. Especially when delay minutes cost a lot more than any measly £1.50 - £4.00 fare will compensate for.
Apart from only one socket per bay of two, what happens if the socket is already in use? And do people really carry their charger for everyday use? Therefore, it is a perfectly good excuse hence my comment about contactless charging.
Cliveblackpool
Member
More stations should have a ticket office.
If there is no ticket office or suitable TVM facilities, they should appoint newsagents/ shops nearby with Paypoint facilities to sell a day/weekly ticket for that line/ popular journey, (maybe a bit cheaper than on the train) and/ or a 'permission to travel' ticket. These tickets possibly could be purchased a week in advance, but dated for the day/s of travel. There would then be no excuse not to have a ticket!
Also maybe the driver could open the doors, but the guard closes them. This would free the guard up for checking & selling tickets.
If there is no ticket office or suitable TVM facilities, they should appoint newsagents/ shops nearby with Paypoint facilities to sell a day/weekly ticket for that line/ popular journey, (maybe a bit cheaper than on the train) and/ or a 'permission to travel' ticket. These tickets possibly could be purchased a week in advance, but dated for the day/s of travel. There would then be no excuse not to have a ticket!
Also maybe the driver could open the doors, but the guard closes them. This would free the guard up for checking & selling tickets.
hairyhandedfool
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Presumably people have chargers and sockets in their homes? My phone battery lasts more than a day, doesn't take much to check the battery level either.
185
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After an officer from British Transport Police (York) tried (and failed) in 2009 to prosecute a TPE guard for 'common assault by deliberately bumping' into a passenger stood in the aisle, the time has come to stop checking tickets when even a single passenger is stood up. No matter what companies rules or revenue regulations state, the law is the law and if BTP consider that a prosecutable offence, I would suggest staying in the back cab, stuff tickets.
The officer concerned (whose name I know) did become the laughing stock of many other officers, but set a dangerous precedent in trying to force a caution on the guard; when the guard refused he then tried to take this to the CPS who just laughed at it after CCTV was pulled.
The guard concerned retired last year and still, to this day laughs it off as a comical error by a very inexperienced new officer, however as mentioned before - this created a dangerous situation for all staff working under BTP's jurisdiction.
That is indeed entirely ridiculous. Presumably an aggrieved passenger was behind the complaint in the first place? Whoever it is should probably avoid all pubs, lifts, stadiums, and anywhere else his precious personal space might be impeded.
My local commute takes in several stations without ticketing facilities, and is also often full and standing. Sometimes a guard makes valiant efforts to get down the middle, but most don't, and I can't blame them. Last week a guard was trying to get back to the doors to open them as we were coming in, and got stuck behind someone in the aisle who was wearing headphones and oblivious to anything around him. The guard just stood back, shrugged at the passengers around him and commented "If he doesn't move none of us are getting off". Mr Oblivious promptly got a hand waved in front of his eyes, and both shoulders simultaneously tapped, by concerned passengers, including myself
On the Northern trains I catch its quite normal for the guard to stand at the back and just shout out to the car "does anybody want a ticket?" before disappearing into the cab. As there's two pacers joined together, those in the front train don't get a chance to buy a ticket on board.
At Manchester Piccadilly they usually have one or two Northern staff stood at a counter on the platform selling tickets, and then a barrier of G4S staff checking tickets. Its quite normal to see people getting fines (I presume that's the paperwork being waved around), so have the people actually attempted to skip through without a valid ticket?
At Manchester Piccadilly they usually have one or two Northern staff stood at a counter on the platform selling tickets, and then a barrier of G4S staff checking tickets. Its quite normal to see people getting fines (I presume that's the paperwork being waved around), so have the people actually attempted to skip through without a valid ticket?
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