Rail replacement - for the customers/for the TOCs?

[Chapeltom]

Hi all

I'm on a rail replacement arranged at short notice from Sheffield to Chinley. Now this is the last service, as the 2247 off Sheffield and apparently calls at stations only on demand. After 2145 this was cancelled and replaced by a bus. Now with a 2hr 12 gap between the 2035 and 2247 surely some people will have wanted the last train from intermediate stations and yet this bus calls at the demand of those on the bus. What happens to these people AT the stations?

Frustratingly this driver is also refusing to drop me off at a roundabout on the route to Chinley. Usually RRB drivers drop you where you want and are happy to comply with passenger demands, as if we haven't been inconvenienced enough by the lengthy bus journey? I'd have been at CLY at 2327 and in at 0000 in Chapel, I'm not looking at a 0040 at the earliest arrival through the door.

So who do these RRB services really run for? The passengers or the TOCs and the fact they have to stick them on?

Interesting to hear some thoughts because the bus goes to Chinley yet won't drop me off on route to the station 1.5 miles from it!

Tom

 

[mister-sparky]

i've never been on a rail-replacement bus that stops wherever the passengers want it to. they've always been very strict at only stopping at the stations.

 

[156441]

If its not out if the coach drivers way and it would be safe to do so I can't see why he wouldn't quickly drop you off. The only two reasons I can think he wouldn't is safety and inconvenience to other pax.

I'm surprised its not stopping all stops though.

 

[DarloRich]

I have never known a replacement bus stop anywhere other than the agreed stops. They certainly dont opperate at the demand of the passengers.

The line may be closed for emergency engineering works. I am not sure what you mean by the buses being run for the benefit of the TOC

 

[hairyhandedfool]

My local bus drivers refuse to let me off the bus anywhere except the bus stops, it's so inconsiderate of them when they are driving straight past the place I want to go, it's not like they are not going past it......

I rather suspect it's about duty of care as much as anything else, what happens if they drop you elsewhere and you have an accident or get assaulted or something?

I have only known the RRB drivers to drop off elsewhere when they have been unable to find the station they are to stop at, but it has always been relatively close to the station (certainly not 1.5 miles away!).

As for whom the buses run, if it was upto the railway, they wouldn't run.

 

[yorksrob]

I suspect the question is whether TOC ‘s bother with diversions or not. Did Virgin even bother to put on any diversions for last weekends engineering works on the WCML or was it just a case of can‘t be bothered ?

 

[lincolnshire]

Is it a Rail Replacement Service ? if so its replaceing the train and does the train drop you off where you want to be near to your home?

The rules are station to station and if the driver is found dropping people elsewhere the they are taken off the job, so why risk your driving job ( at a crap rate of pay) just to please some someone who thinks he,s been hard done by at least they got you home.

Also the train operating companies have mystery shoppers traveling on the services to ensure that standards are met. Health & Safety also means that if someone is dropped in wrong place and has an accident then who is responsible? as I bet you would be trying to claim if it happen to you.

 

[harz99]

All I can say is your lucky the TOC supplies anything.

At Lockerbie the bulk of services are supplied by FirstTransPennine.

In recent weeks there have been engineering work blockades on the WCML north of Preston, FTPE's response was to withdraw all their Scottish services north of Preston WITHOUT any replacement, bus or train.

I need to travel north from Preston to Lockerbie on the late afternoon of Sat 17th May, the NR journey planner shows this to be impossible as all the FTPE services have again been withdrawn/diverted. Virgin are running but they do not stop at Lockerbie. There seem to be no bus replacements planned.

How does FTPE get away with arbitrarily withdrawing all services and not arranging any replacement?

 

[yorksrob]

Come to think of it , I didn't see any 185‘s on the S&C last weekend either. Pretty poor show by the looks of things.

 

[Chapeltom]

Fair enough. Whenever I've been on a RRB before I've always had drivers willing to stop people off when they want (on route of course). I'd previously been dropped at Feredo (which is on the way to Chinley) a couple of times and it was just a shock. I didn't know RRBs had to drop at stations, just never seen it strictly enforced before so know I now.



--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Fair enough. Whenever I've been on a RRB before I've always had drivers willing to stop people off when they want (on route of course). I'd previously been dropped at Feredo (which is on the way to Chinley) a couple of times and it was just a shock. I didn't know RRBs had to drop at stations, just never seen it strictly enforced before so know I now.

Ah well, 2 miles I'd have had to walk anyway

 

[ANorthernGuard]

Just to let you know the reason a RRB was used last night was due to a Person hit by 1D62 at outside of Dore in the East Bank area of Sheffield Normal working wasn't given back until 22.46

 

[Aldaniti]

All I can say is your lucky the TOC supplies anything.

How does FTPE get away with arbitrarily withdrawing all services and not arranging any replacement?

One of the benefits of privatisation. Profit or loss avoidance comes first, providing a 'service' comes after that. Virgin are particularly bad. Virgin's 'seven day railway' has now become a five day railway (subject to the usual WCML farces of course). When the Wigan blockade starts in a few weeks time it won't even be that. The timetable for that period is non-existent for Wigan passengers. Fine, engineering work has to be done but with some co-operation from Northern, Virgin could at least run a few Wigan to Crewe/Birmingham Voyager services off platform 1 via Manchester, or even from Wallgate but no, it's far too easy just to shove the mugs on a bus, after all it's only Wigan (a station that Virgin physically neglected for years). I have a meeting in Birmingham that week but I'll most definitely be driving and the thing is, the more I drive the more I get used to it and the more I avoid the railway and its ridiculous peak time fares and awful Voyagers. Everything is too difficult or would eat into profit, it's the fragmented railway at its worst. No doubt the TOC's would give a whole host of reasons (excuses) why these things can't be done instead of thinking of ways in which they could be done. British Rail wasn't perfect but strewth, I'd give anything to see it back and if I ever met John Major I'd give him very short shrift.

 

[Antman]

i've never been on a rail-replacement bus that stops wherever the passengers want it to. they've always been very strict at only stopping at the stations.

I have, Metrobus drivers are usaully very good in that respect and I've not seen any driver of any operator refuse a reasonable request to be dropped off along the line of route.

After all, the passengers are being inconvenienced as it is, doing them a little favour in return isn't too much to ask surely?

 

[michael769]

One should remember that it takes time to stop a bus (IIRC it costs at least 3 mins to let 1 person off), and this increases journey times for the other passengers.

What right does a single person have to expect 50+ people to be inconvenienced for their convenience?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
I have to give Scotrail some credit in this regard. When the 5 day Edinburgh<-> Glasgow via Shotts/Carstairs kicks in at the end of the month the original bus replacement services were awful for commuters trying to get into work in the morning, mainly due to the extended journey times.

I raised the issue with them and got a pretty positive response about additional early morning buses

 

[455driver]

My local bus drivers refuse to let me off the bus anywhere except the bus stops, it's so inconsiderate of them when they are driving straight past the place I want to go, it's not like they are not going past it......

I rather suspect it's about duty of care as much as anything else

Its to do with insurance, if the bus drops you anywhere other than a recognised bus stop then the companies insurance will not cover you or the driver.

 

[Thomas6187]

Hi all

I'm on a rail replacement arranged at short notice from Sheffield to Chinley. Now this is the last service, as the 2247 off Sheffield and apparently calls at stations only on demand.

As the train started from Grindleford, there would be no point for a Bus do a full service as people on the Hope Valley would have been on the train. It better to send the bus were people need to go instead a needless diversion when anybody who wanted the service will have long gone.

 

[michael769]

Its to do with insurance, if the bus drops you anywhere other than a recognised bus stop then the companies insurance will not cover you or the driver.

Not true!

A policy with such a restriction would not comply with the requirements of Section 145 of the Road Trafic Act 1988 as amended,

 

[Antman]

Its to do with insurance, if the bus drops you anywhere other than a recognised bus stop then the companies insurance will not cover you or the driver.

That is a complete myth I'm afraid

 

[edwin_m]

However it is possible that someone could sue the company if involved in an accident allegedly caused by the bus dropping someone at an (allegedly again) unsafe location.

 

[Chrisgr31]

How on earth does it take a bus 3 minutes to drop of a passenger? Might do if it is travelling at speed but its more likely to be in a 30mph limit, so theres the time to slow from 30 to a stop, open doors, passenger jumps out, doors close and bus moves off. Although more frequently the doors are open by the time its stopped, and close as it is moving off.

Bus replacement services usually take a lot longer than the train so it seems only reasonable they should drop passengers where they want to be dropped as long as it is on the route. Ours usually do.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

i've never been on a rail-replacement bus that stops wherever the passengers want it to. they've always been very strict at only stopping at the stations.

During my student days there was a 2-week closure from Town Green-Ormskirk, and the drivers of replacement buses were usually quite happy to drop off at the gates of the University when heading to Ormskirk and to pick up there when heading to Town Green.

 

[Morden Via CHX]

However it is possible that someone could sue the company if involved in an accident allegedly caused by the bus dropping someone at an (allegedly again) unsafe location.

This is correct

 

[High Dyke]

Bus replacement services usually take a lot longer than the train so it seems only reasonable they should drop passengers where they want to be dropped as long as it is on the route. Ours usually do.

Part of the problem used to be the scheduling of RR buses. I've done a number of these in the past. One such trip was an all stations trip from Crewe - Derby, Long Eaton, Beeston, Nottingham. It was timed to leave Crewe @ 21:10 and arrive in Nottingham just after midnight. Including allowing 20 minutes from Stoke - Longton; 35 minutes Blythe Bridge - Uttoxeter; and 30 minutes Derby - Long Eaton

On the other side of the coin we spent a whole B/H afternoon chasing our tails on a Peterborough - Grantham - Newark Northgate service because they didn't allow sufficient time.

As for dropping off en-route: The train wouldn't stop out of course just because you may be passing nearer your house than the actual railway station...!

 

[Temple Meads]

How does this work when it's a taxi (supplied by a TOC in the event of a delay etc), as I have been on a TOC chartered taxi that dropped a fellow passenger off about 2 miles from the station, is there more flexibility, or is the contract station to station?

 

[Eagle]

How on earth does it take a bus 3 minutes to drop of a passenger? Might do if it is travelling at speed but its more likely to be in a 30mph limit, so theres the time to slow from 30 to a stop, open doors, passenger jumps out, doors close and bus moves off.

They may have luggage stored in the hold though.

 

[Aictos]

Rail Replacement Buses or Taxis should only be used to convey passengers or staff from point to point, this is what the driver is contracted to do and paid to do.

Not provide a personal service to these who think the driver is only there to make unauthorised stops for their own benefits.

Might be harsh but rather then think of me me me all the time, the drivers have to think of the bigger picture - I've had rail replacement buses go by bus stops I could have used to get a local bus service BUT I don't ask the driver to just let me off as 1. It would inconvenienced other passengers with the extra delay and 2. He is contracted to work a very specific stopping pattern.

Some people do come across as being selfish even though they think its doing them a favour :roll:

 

[pjnathanail]

How easy would it be for the TOCs to just tell coach companies to observe all stops en route? It would be much better customer service.

 

[M60lad]

Regarding Rail Replacements do tickets have to be bought for said services as I've traveled on many Rail Replacements in the past and on the majority of occasions never had a ticket check and the coach driver has just let us on and said tickets are nothing to do with him, mind you I suppose it depends who's organising the replacement as apart from the odd Co-Ordinator First Rail Support are well known for not checking and making sure someone has got a ticket

 

[hairyhandedfool]

You should (must, unless it is not possible to get one) have a ticket to use the replacement bus service.

The replacement service is provided for railway passengers, so have a guess where you buy the tickets from.....

 

[A-driver]

How easy would it be for the TOCs to just tell coach companies to observe all stops en route? It would be much better customer service.

It would take far, far longer.

Take a rail replacement from Stevenage to peterbourgh. Basically the coach has to follow the A1 all the way. But every time it goes to a rail station it needs to turn off the A1, along country roads, into the town centre and out again. If no one on the bus wants a certain station then it can save huge amounts if time to skip that station. Especially late at night, few people will want to get on so you could spend 20mims driving up to a station just to find no one there. Best to not stop and tell anyone at the station to use the help point where a taxi will be organised.