TfL to scrap cash fares on buses?

[transmanche]

With only 1.5% of journeys now being paid for in cash, it looks like TfL want to stop accepting cash on buses.

http://londonist.com/2013/04/tfl-aiming-to-scrap-cash-fares-on-buses.php

TfL Aiming To Scrap Cash Fares On Buses

Transport for London wants to stop accepting cash fares on buses, and has considered implementing the plan as early as this year.

BBC’s Sunday Politics programme requested a Mayoral briefing from the end of 2012, which says:

It is also proposed that the sale of cash tickets on bus [sic] be stopped at a suitable time in 2013.

1.5% of bus fares are paid for in cash, 24m journeys a year, equating to around £57m in revenue. On the Sunday Politics Leon Daniels, TfL’s Managing Director, Surface Transport, said it costs around £10m-£15m to collect cash fares on buses (though the BBC’s Transport correspondent, Tom Edwards, said on Twitter yesterday that the figure is more like £35m) and TfL’s plan seems to be that once revenue is less than adminstration costs, cash fares will go.

...

 

[SS4]

Is this just another plot to push people to Oyster? I can see why this is a good idea in central London but there you have to pay before boarding anyway, it's when you get into the outer reaches that my concerns grow as it must be prohibitively expensive to maintain machines in 'remote' locations and anyone without a travelcard (oyster or paper) is basically stuck.

Contactless payments are in their infancy and I'm not sure I'd be happy leaving the term vulnerable as ill-defined as it is in current usage

 

[bb21]

They are scrapping on-street ticket machines and going back to on-bus cash sales in central London anyway.

Will never happen. Some of the reasons were already given in the article itself.

 

[transmanche]

Is this just another plot to push people to Oyster? I can see why this is a good idea in central London but there you have to pay before boarding anyway, it's when you get into the outer reaches that my concerns grow as it must be prohibitively expensive to maintain machines in 'remote' locations and anyone without a travelcard (oyster or paper) is basically stuck.

Well the roadside ticket machines are going anyway (it costs more to maintain them than they collect in revenue). And you can now use contactless debit/credit cards to pay on board (at the Oyster rate).

 

[SS4]

Well the roadside ticket machines are going anyway (it costs more to maintain them than they collect in revenue). And you can now use contactless debit/credit cards to pay on board (at the Oyster rate).

That's fair enough, I can't see it happening this year if they're waiting for rollout of contactless cards. The only person I know with a contactless card is myself.

I'd still like to see a definition of vulnerable though

 

[overthewater]

London is another world to bus users, most people don't even use the contact payment up here, Greggs, Mc Donalds and M&S, a great choice...

I can understand why the idea has been suggested.

 

[transmanche]

I'd still like to see a definition of vulnerable though

The response to this FOI request says:

The following are instances of vulnerable situations [which permit the issue of a UFN]: A child who does not have their free Oystercard; A passenger who does not have the correct change and it is the last bus of the night with no surrounding shops open.​

Bear in mind; all under 11s, all under 16s with a Zip card and all Freedom Pass holders travel free at all times - as do wheelchair users (no card required).

 

[WillPS]

Wait - so I can hire a wheelchair and enjoy free bus travel, regardless of the fact I've no need for it?

 

[Deerfold]

Wait - so I can hire a wheelchair and enjoy free bus travel, regardless of the fact I've no need for it?

If you think that'd be a cost-effective hire (considering an Oyster will cap at £4.40 a day for bus travel), then go for it.

You'll be slower boarding and departing - and you won't be able to board the first bus if there's already a wheelchair on it.

 

[Ivo]

How much would it cost to design and build your own wheelchair?

 

[transmanche]

Wait - so I can hire a wheelchair and enjoy free bus travel, regardless of the fact I've no need for it?

If you think that'd be a cost-effective hire (considering an Oyster will cap at £4.40 a day for bus travel), then go for it.

You'll be slower boarding and departing - and you won't be able to board the first bus if there's already a wheelchair on it.

Exactly. The process is this: exit doors open to allow passengers off, exit doors close, wheelchair ramp deployed, exit doors open to allow wheelchair passenger to board/alight, exit doors closed, wheelchair ramp retracted.[*]

And that's why no card is required. On London buses, the wheelchair ramp will be located at the exit doors - so it's just not practical to require a card to be shown.

And if other (delayed) passengers find out that you're using a wheelchair merely to get a free ride... you might find that you'll actually need it after all!

 

[34D]

I'd be interested in more information on who uses cash fares, and why.

The only time I've had one is when I forgot my oystercard (and didn't need to buy anything else) - I suspect this will be the most common reason.

Out of interest, is it still possible to buy a day bus pass either on a bus or at a roadside machine?

 

[SS4]

I'd be interested in more information on who uses cash fares, and why.

The only time I've had one is when I forgot my oystercard (and didn't need to buy anything else) - I suspect this will be the most common reason.

Out of interest, is it still possible to buy a day bus pass either on a bus or at a roadside machine?

Occasional travellers from outside Greater London?

 

[jon0844]

Of course not everyone has a bank account and might not have Oyster, but I am never without access to money when I have my cards but have often struggled when not having any cash (or the right change) on me.

I've had to walk to the train station since I stopped with my season ticket because I didn't have £1.50 for the bus. My bus doesn't take cards/smart cards and I expect more people struggle for not having the right change (not all drivers will change a large note) here than vice versa in London.

 

[transmanche]

Out of interest, is it still possible to buy a day bus pass either on a bus or at a roadside machine?

No, they've been withdrawn.

Occasional travellers from outside Greater London?

Still possible for them to have on Oyster card (like me) and/or a contactless debit/credit card.

 

[Mojo]

Out of interest, is it still possible to buy a day bus pass either on a bus or at a roadside machine?

The One-day bus [and Tram] pass was withdrawn in January 2010.

 

[Deerfold]

And that's why no card is required. On London buses, the wheelchair ramp will be located at the exit doors - so it's just not practical to require a card to be shown.

The only time I've known a card need to be shown is where the holder is entitled to have a companion travel for free too - and in these cases the companion usually walks to the front of the bus with it.

 

[bicbasher]

If contactless debit cards were universally given to account holders, then I could understand TfL's final push to eradicate cash fares, but it's still too early to give it up despite only being 1% of revenue on buses.

On the other hand, it'd stop drivers being targets for robbers.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The One-day bus [and Tram] pass was withdrawn in January 2010.

The product may have been scrapped, but still lives on as the Oyster PAYG bus cap.

 

[90019]

I'd be interested in more information on who uses cash fares, and why.

I was in London overnight last year to get the car back from my brother. It's the first time I've been there in years and have no planss to go back anytime soon, and as I used all of two buses while there it was easier to just pay a cash fare.

 

[WestCoast]

Not taking cash fares on buses is hardly revolutionary, and leaving the bendy-buses out of it, plenty of cities in continental Europe have bus networks with off-bus payment only. Of course, this supported by network-wide street TVMs and numerous ticket vendors.

 

[jon0844]

Many suburbs in Stockholm (and presumably in town too) went prepayment only some time ago, without any machines at bus stops. If you don't have a smartcard (or the ancient strips that get stamped) then you walk!