Stations that ought to be closed down.

[Cherry_Picker]

You'd be right. Birmingham to Stratford becomes half-hourly on Saturday from next month. There's also talk of extending some Dorridge services there too (which would also give a decent service to Claverdon and Bearley). It'll be the best service Stratford has had since Beeching.

I'd wager not that many people use the train for travelling from Stratford to Warwick or Leamington as the bus is far more frequent, about as quick and somewhat cheaper. But for travelling to Birmingham, the major urban area in the region, it's indispensable.

Of course I have no idea why you're bringing this up in stations for closure, Stratford has a perfectly decent service for a town of its size, and annual usage figures around the 650,000 mark.

The Stratford debate is for another thread, but I agree that it cant really compete against the road for trips to Warwick and Leamington Spa because the route the railway takes is hardly direct, it has to be almost twice the distance and the linespeed isn't any faster than the roads are.

I still think it could use an improved Birmingham service though.

 

[TSR :D]

After seeing a (outdated) list of railway stations in West Midlands, I don't really think there's any stations that needs to be closed except probably Adderley Park but it's located in high density area so passenger numbers could increase quite easily in the future if there's a demand for it.

 

[bluenoxid]

But any "reopenings" would legally be openings of new platforms at new stations.

That means you need to arrange for DDA compliant access, improved platform surfaces, the list goes on.

Additionally new stations are not permitted to have platforms on curved trackwork that leads to a concave rather than convex platforms without expensive risk assesment work.

The "cost" of having one train per week running to these stations is effectively zero (there are no pathing concerns since they could be the last trains of the day if neccesary, meaning that nothing is behind it to "catch up").
It would probably cost more to "rip out the platform edges" than to keep going as we are.

Additionally minor maintenance work is likely to be far less expensive than the complete reconstruction required during a hypothetical "reopening".

Probably, likely, etc. We are talking a lot of money. In addition, DDA will need to be respected. You cannot just dump a wheelchair passenger on a platform with no access.

But not really though. I admit that the case of a halt on a mainline can cause problems, but how many of these stations are actually on main lines ?

I also alert you to the cautionary tale of Winchelsea and Three Oaks, two halts that are close to my heart. After having been reduced to one or two stops per day, they have since gained a two hourly service due to local demand. Would this have been possible had the physical structures been altered ? I doubt it.

It doesn't matter where these stations are, they all still need to be maintained and operated to mainline standards. The biggest frustration is that we are not looking after them. We are just letting them rot.

 

[yorksrob]

I don't really see how we can be maintaining these stations to a mainline standard, yet letting them rot at the same time ? The reality is that they probably have minimal maintenance to stop them falling down and that's it.

 

[tbtc]

A mass transportation system really needs to have at least one passenger per departure as a benchmark.

We've got plenty of places where resources could be better focussed.

Curious you feel the answer to only 2 trains a week is closure rather than more trains. It would presumably not be the end of the world to stop every other Taunton stopper there.

why not look at increasing services to increase footfall

I love threads like this - the answer to an obscure halt that has one passenger a week is usually to stop every train there... not convinced.

I think the issue you identify (perhaps not intentionally?) is that a mass transit system is not a wonderful idea to transport a few bird watchers and CAMRA members on a Sunday afternoon

Agreed - a train isn't a "one size fits all" solution to everything.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

South Bank - woefully underserved station with a very rough looking approach.

Someone, somewhere must disagree Gathursty, from the timetable change next month South Bank is going from 4tpd each way Monday-Saturday and no trains on Sunday to an hourly service each way throughout the day, including Sundays!

 

[yorksrob]

Agreed - a train isn't a "one size fits all" solution to everything.

Yes, but if you've got a stopping train running through anyway, you may as well pick up a few paying bird watchers and CAMRA members.

 

[bluenoxid]

I don't really see how we can be maintaining these stations to a mainline standard, yet letting them rot at the same time ?

Look at all of the stations and that is what is happening. They all have to be maintained but we are sitting there and nobody is doing anything to help their case with staying open. That is why they are rotting. They're not actually rotting away but the rail industry is by letting them continue to remain open.

 

[SprinterMan]

Stations that need to be closed, hmmmmmm:

East Anglia
Angel Road - People can just use Northumberland Park instead
Buckenham - 100 birdwatchers a year are no reason to keep a station open
Lakenheath - 400 birdwatchers a year are no reason to keep a station open
Maryland - Trains braking for Stratford start to do so before they even pass through here, so people can just use Stratford. And it was closed for the Olympics.
Shippea Hill - Shippea Hill isn't even a place. :P
NOTE: I honestly believe that with a decent service (1tp2h), Spooner Row, Eccles Road, Harling Road & Manea would attract decent custom.

South West
Coombe Junction - Used by no one, and trains actually have to go out of their way to get there.
Chapleton - Appears to be built into the side of a barn and gets 190 people a year, you do the maths :P
NOTE: Not including intermediate stations on the St. Ives Bay line, as passenger numbers collection methodology keeps changing too much, although I have a suspicion that one of either Lelant or Lelant Saltings may not be needed.

The Midlands
New Clee - Derelict and basically abandoned
Peartree - Who actually uses it?
Polesworth - Can have a bus replacement service like Etruria/Barlaston/Wedgwood/Norton Bridge
Water Orton - Coleshill Parkway has made it redundant
NOTE: Not counting Gainsborough Central, Brigg, or Kirton Lindsey as with a decent service they would probably see good usage.

The North
British Steel Redcar - Does not appear to be used by any steel mill workers
South Bank - Just grim
Teeside Airport - Does not serve the airport
NOTE: Not including limited service lines like Stockport to Stalybridge or Helsby to Ellesmere Port as a better service they would attract far more passengers.

Wales
Ty Croes - Serves nowhere, and is only a 30min walk from Rhosneigr

Scotland
Barry Links - Need I even say why
Golf Street - See above

Adam

 

[cjmillsnun]

No station should ever close, nor should we be advocating closure.

We should be advocating decent services, advertisements and trying to attract custom to the railway, from whatever location

Anyway where do you draw the line once you have closed the little used ones. Where is the next threshold for closure? Why bother with whole lines?

Just close, say, the Bishop Auckland Branch or the Marston Vale branch. What about Cheddington, not many use that really, perhaps Wolverton could go as MK is close by, lets take Northampton out because it is right pita in getting to and from London on LM, Tring doesn't really serve a defined location so that best go etc

At what point have to many stations closed?

I think we could cite Newhaven Marine as an exception. It's closed to the public but still an "open station" with a parliamentary train that no one can catch.

It's a 3 minute walk to Newhaven Town which is open. It's time to properly close this unnecessary station.

 

[tbtc]

Yes, but if you've got a stopping train running through anyway, you may as well pick up a few paying bird watchers and CAMRA members.

Depends how many there are though to justify each train stopping.

Stations still need maintained, whether there are thousands of passengers a day or dozens of passengers a year - we can hide behind "grandfather rights" in some respects, but accessibility regulations are going to get tighter and tighter and someone'll want a £100,000 footbridge at a station with two passengers a day before long...

 

[yorksrob]

Look at all of the stations and that is what is happening. They all have to be maintained but we are sitting there and nobody is doing anything to help their case with staying open. That is why they are rotting. They're not actually rotting away but the rail industry is by letting them continue to remain open.

Arguably even a "rotting" station by your definition is more potentially useful to me as a passenger than a closed one.

Out of around 2,500 stations, only fifty six have less than 1000 entrances and exits according to the latest figures and since the average cost of a single journey is around £4.95 according to ATOC, that's potentially £4,950 worth of revenue at least for the rest of them.

Plus you can bet your bottom dollar that there'll be someone greatly inconvenienced by even the smallest closure causing a lot of unnecessary bad publicity.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Depends how many there are though to justify each train stopping.

Stations still need maintained, whether there are thousands of passengers a day or dozens of passengers a year - we can hide behind "grandfather rights" in some respects, but accessibility regulations are going to get tighter and tighter and someone'll want a £100,000 footbridge at a station with two passengers a day before long...

Then such calls will have to be resisted. Personally I think it would be better to establish a level of station revenue generation below which stations should be permanently exempted from accessibility requirements. That would be a more pragmatic approach to that risk than a closure programme.

 

[tbtc]

you can bet your bottom dollar that there'll be someone greatly inconvenienced by even the smallest closure causing a lot of unnecessary bad publicity

...which is why we've got the daft situation that we do, where its better to keep a station "alive" with one train a day/ week than to use the resources elsewhere.

The railways are obviously scared of the bad publicity, so we keep Breich, Sugar Loaf, Golf Street etc on the map - silly (but understandable).

Then such calls will have to be resisted. Personally I think it would be better to establish a level of station revenue generation below which stations should be permanently exempted from accessibility requirements. That would be a more pragmatic approach to that risk than a closure programme.

I really can't see it happening

 

[Quakers Yard]

None in the valleys. They are well spaced out or serve at least one community.

 

[yorksrob]

...which is why we've got the daft situation that we do, where its better to keep a station "alive" with one train a day/ week than to use the resources elsewhere.

The railways are obviously scared of the bad publicity, so we keep Breich, Sugar Loaf, Golf Street etc on the map - silly (but understandable).



I really can't see it happening

It would be interesting to see what would happen if someone forced the issue in the way that you describe - particularly for one with a few thousand passengers rather than a parliamentary.

Would the railways force a closure rather than invest the £100,000, then if this provoked a reaction from the couple of thousand passengers, would the Government amend the law ?

 

[paul1609]

I think we could cite Newhaven Marine as an exception. It's closed to the public but still an "open station" with a parliamentary train that no one can catch.

It's a 3 minute walk to Newhaven Town which is open. It's time to properly close this unnecessary station.

its actually harbour station thats just down the road and sees very little traffic either. Town haas been the station for the ferry since the terminal was rebuilt some years ago. The ferry is due to end at the end of this summer due to the withdrawal of the French subsidy.

 

[E16 Cyclist]

Denham Golf Club always seemed a strange one that survived the beeching cuts

 

[61653 HTAFC]

its actually harbour station thats just down the road and sees very little traffic either. Town haas been the station for the ferry since the terminal was rebuilt some years ago. The ferry is due to end at the end of this summer due to the withdrawal of the French subsidy.

To be fair, the crucial difference between Harbour and Marine stations is that Harbour is on the 'main' line to Seaford- so can be served (or not) by the regular Seaford services. The Newhaven Marine debacle perhaps shows the problem with the legislation that leads to 'Parliamentary' trains being operated- One train a week runs to a station that no-one can use and no-one will ever need to use. Even if the surrounding area was redeveloped and demand was to increase, the cost of providing a usable service to a rebuilt Marine would bring unneccessary pressures on rolling stock and capacity due to the route being on a branch, especially as Town station is only a 5minute walk away anyway.

Compare this with the Stalybridge-Stockport line, where if a regular Mon-Sat service were provided, usage would surely increase both end-to-end and from both Denton and Reddish South- Certainly if an hourly or even bi-hourly service was available I could see myself using it to avoid Piccadilly if travelling from Huddersfield to say Shrewsbury and beyond. Perhaps there'll be a spare 142 around once all the planned wires go up!

 

[Cherry_Picker]

Water Orton - Coleshill Parkway has made it redundant
Adam

Says who?

Have you seen Water Orton in the peaks?

 

[edwin_m]

One possible reason to close a station might be that having a station with no sensible use just confuses people. Tees-side Airport is a good example, where people may assume there is a decent train service to a station with reasonable access to the airport... well it's convenient for the runway IIRC.

Someone mentioned Ardwick - the proposed HS2 route runs right through it so money would have to be spent to keep it open. With frequent bus services a short distance away and Ashburys station not too far off, I can't see it happening.

Weren't all the London-Cardiff trains booked to stop at Pilning when there was some diversion that prevented them calling at Parkway?

 

[HSTEd]

The Stalybridge-Stockport line would undoubtedly pick up significant custom even if was simply operated as a Pacer or Class 153 shuttle back and forth all day.

But that would require a spare unit which we don't have.

 

[12CSVT]

I see Maryland keeps getting mentioned in this thread because it is almost within touching distance of Stratford.

In this case, do we really need every station on the Cathcart Circle (ten in total), given that they are all within a few hundred yards of each other, and Maxwell Park is a few minutes walk from Crossmyloof.

 

[Buttsy]

I see Maryland keeps getting mentioned in this thread because it is almost within touching distance of Stratford.

In this case, do we really need every station on the Cathcart Circle (ten in total), given that they are all within a few hundred yards of each other, and Maxwell Park is a few minutes walk from Crossmyloof.

Taking that to the nth degree, is there a need for Heath Low Level, bearing in mind the regular service from Heath High Level should suffice. Also Hyde North bearing in mind the proximity of Flowery Field... Where do you stop???

 

[Eagle]

Taking that to the nth degree, is there a need for Heath Low Level, bearing in mind the regular service from Heath High Level should suffice.

Because you can't get to Coryton from Heath High (you'd have to go to Queen Street and back).

Personally, I wonder if it isn't worth officially merging the two stations being as they are literally across the road from each other, they're closer than (say) the two parts of Meadowhall or Liskeard. Same goes for the two St Budeaux.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Stalybridge-Stockport line would undoubtedly pick up significant custom even if was simply operated as a Pacer or Class 153 shuttle back and forth all day.

But that would require a spare unit which we don't have.

No spare Class 142 Pacers ? There seem to be a goodly number of Manchester-area services now running with 2 x 142 units where only a single unit was used previously.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Wasn't a supposedly temporary shortage of stock the reason for the services being cut back in the first place? I know that was the case for Leeds-Goole.

 

[Ivo]

Weren't all the London-Cardiff trains booked to stop at Pilning when there was some diversion that prevented them calling at Parkway?

Patchway is used for this purpose, not Pilning.

Because you can't get to Coryton from Heath High (you'd have to go to Queen Street and back).

Personally, I wonder if it isn't worth officially merging the two stations being as they are literally across the road from each other, they're closer than (say) the two parts of Meadowhall or Liskeard. Same goes for the two St Budeaux.

I've wondered this too. Surely this is much simpler from a passenger's perspective?

 

[Buttsy]

Because you can't get to Coryton from Heath High (you'd have to go to Queen Street and back).

Personally, I wonder if it isn't worth officially merging the two stations being as they are literally across the road from each other, they're closer than (say) the two parts of Meadowhall or Liskeard. Same goes for the two St Budeaux.

I'd ask how many people go from Heath to Coryton as this would be the driver behind keeping the station.

I'm personally in favour of keeping stations open, but providing a decent service for 2-3 years to assess demand, and if that demand is below an arbitary level (say 2500 journeys per year), the service should be reigned back to that necessary to offer a service teh majority of travellers use or to keep the station from closing.

 

[ushawk]

Poor old Doleham, I'd feel personally bereft if it ceased to exist, but that is because the Marshlink is so much a part of my being.

Pevensey Bay - I speak as someone who has actually used it to go and look around the Roman Castle. Closure would be rubbish for local tourism.

Your thinking of Pevensey and Westham 2 minutes down the line, thats the station used for the castle now. Even before the service was reduced and everything stopped there, it wasnt a popular station because of the poor access. Always the possibility of using Pevensey Bay as a Park and Ride for Eastbourne but then im not sure it would be used much then either.

Normans Bay however wouldnt be shut, as it gets used a fair bit in the Summer months what with the nearby campsites and the beach 5 minutes away.

 

[Bald Rick]

Maryland is a stones throw (don't try it) from Stratford, and half a million per year is not a big number at all in the context of the rest of the stations on the GE metro service, unless of course you are one of the half million.

Maryland was closed during the Olympics to allow more time for people to board / alight at Stratford, which worked well. Closure would help operationally but I guess never be acceptable politically.
:

Put it another way. There are c30 million GE Metro passenger journeys a year From stations Brentwood-Maryland inclusive. Conservatively (and to make the maths easy) , assume that c20 million of these are on board a service to/from Stratford or London calling at Maryland. Not stopping there would save every one of these people 2 mins. So a saving to society of 40 million minutes pa.

Even if it is assumed that every single Maryland passenger lives 'country' side of the station (I use the term loosely), and walks at a leisurely pace, it is a 10 minute walk. Thus an added journey time of 10 mins; slightly less for those who then don't have an interchange penalty at Stratford if swapping to other lines; one minute more for any Maryland punters trying to head east. So a cost to society of 5 million minutes.

Revenue loss would be minimal, indeed it would most likely go up a) as the journey time reductions make the train more attractive to most, and b) forcing Maryland punters to use Stratford may encourage them to buy a ticket

Acknowledging that the disadvantages weigh heavily on the burghers of Maryland, this would surely be for 'the greater good'? Or have I read too much George Orwell?

(Note that Crossrail did have a go at closing it, hence LB Newham's insistence I stays open being part of the Act)