Virgin Trains Proposed services

[The Planner]

Why Stafford out of interest, I just thought Euston with platforms

You need to get across to 4,5 or 6 and do a reversal, not as easy as it sounds.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

You need to get across to 4,5 or 6 and do a reversal, not as easy as it sounds.

Can you reach P1 from the Wolverhampton direction on Salop-Euston runs?
It blocks the south end of Stafford on arrival but is otherwise quiet and gives a fast departure.
Euston-Salop would maybe be turned slow line from Milford and use P6?
Be interesting to see how it works.
Not part of the signalling design for sure...

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Some decent detail at last on VT's proposed Blackpool services, according to Today's Railways UK 137. From their brief piece on it:

- Departures from Blackpool North at 0636 and 1403
- Departures from Euston at 1033 and 1933
- Journey time will be just under 3 hours
- All trains will call at Kirkham & Wesham
- Services will be worked by Voyagers released from using more 9-car 390s on Brum-Scotland services.

Interesting stuff! That 0636 departure looks like it will be at Preston very close to the current 0656 (0658 SO) Euston departure, currently a 390 ex-Glasgow at 0428. I wonder what the plans are there? An additional up peak train into London from Lancashire?

 

[MCR247]

That or the 0428 becomes a 221 and they join at Preston?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Possibly. If Wikipedia is to be trusted (and I've looked up the right info), then a 10-car Super Voyager has 4 more Standard Class seats than the 11-car 390 set that usually is now (which just about covers things there), however the significant drop in First accommodation would be a more difficult issue - from what I can tell that's one of (if not the) main morning London service from stations Lancaster-Warrington and it is often well-patronised by businessmen etc.

 

[merlodlliw]

Some decent detail at last on VT's proposed Blackpool services, according to Today's Railways UK 137. From their brief piece on it:

- Departures from Blackpool North at 0636 and 1403
- Departures from Euston at 1033 and 1933
- Journey time will be just under 3 hours
- All trains will call at Kirkham & Wesham
- Services will be worked by Voyagers released from using more 9-car 390s on Brum-Scotland services.

Interesting stuff! That 0636 departure looks like it will be at Preston very close to the current 0656 (0658 SO) Euston departure, currently a 390 ex-Glasgow at 0428. I wonder what the plans are there? An additional up peak train into London from Lancashire?

The current 0700 Wrexham Voyager waits at Chester 15 minutes to join up with the Holyhead section, one will presume the same will apply at Preston,in my opinion when the timetables change in December.As for additional trains, if there is a path perhaps. Anyhow both Salop & Blackpool will happen as no opposition has been received by ORR(as yet) & Network rail say they can find space. One wonders where the 0636 will be stabled overnight(Preston?) plus are these services Saturdays as well?.

 

[cle]

Could the Glasgow train be sent fast to London, and the Blackpool one mop up the Wigan and Warrington stops? That's the overall aim, after all.

 

[4SRKT]

Could the Glasgow train be sent fast to London, and the Blackpool one mop up the Wigan and Warrington stops? That's the overall aim, after all.

It would be a lot more sensible than turning that train from an 11 car Pendo to a 10 car Vomiter IMHO.

 

[gnolife]

What's the current stopping pattern on the service from Glasgow south of Lancaster? Is it the usual Preston, Wigan NW, Warrington BQ, London Euston, or does it do Crewe, a TV station, MK or Watford as well?

 

[gordonthemoron]

What's the current stopping pattern on the service from Glasgow south of Lancaster? Is it the usual Preston, Wigan NW, Warrington BQ, London Euston, or does it do Crewe, a TV station, MK or Watford as well?

Non stop south of Warrington according to Virgin tt

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Preston, Wigan NW and Warrington BQ only. They used to serve Crewe, Rugby and MKC / Watford Jn (alternately) but that changed with VHF in Dec 2008.

 

[cle]

So it could become a sub-4h30 journey possibly? It's currently at 4h38 and no doubt a little slack too.

Will the Blackpool service be 10-car? Can Poulton and Kirkham fit that, or use SDO? What is that train's stopping pattern supposed to be, south of Preston?

It might end up too full with too many stations. Maybe an MK stop could go to the Glasgow fast.

 

[gnolife]

I'm wondering how much demand there is at that time for journeys between Wigan and Warrington - if there isn't much demand, have the Blackpool service pick up the quieter stop, with the Glasgow picking up the busier stop, with one of them also calling at either Crewe or Stafford (to provide connections to Birmingham and Stoke)

 

[neonison]

Yes they are.

So is that reverse at Wolverhampton and Stafford or take the avoiding curve at Wolverhampton and reverse only at Stafford?

...or am I completely wrong about this?

 

[The Planner]

Reverse only at Stafford on Sea, then Oxley chord.

 

[cle]

So is that reverse at Wolverhampton and Stafford or take the avoiding curve at Wolverhampton and reverse only at Stafford?

...or am I completely wrong about this?

I think it will use the avoiding curve, run to Stafford, stop/reverse and then direct to London...

Quicker driving to Stafford and getting it there...

 

[Eagle]

Reverse only at Stafford on Sea, then Oxley chord.

First regular passenger use of that chord in a long while (although ATW have used it quite often for diversionary purposes when Shrewsbury to Crewe is closed).

 

[neonison]

First regular passenger use of that chord in a long while (although ATW have used it quite often for diversionary purposes when Shrewsbury to Crewe is closed).

Sounds like one I need to add to my list.

 

[cslusarc]

So it could become a sub-4h30 journey possibly? It's currently at 4h38 and no doubt a little slack too.

Isn't the current Headline Journey from EUS to GLC a 4h08 service departing at 16:30 on weekdays?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Yes, however I think it's little more than a nice bit of publicity myself - north of Preston it's absolutely silent, if it's an 11-car set it may be 10-25% full from my experiences. It could seriously do with a Carlisle and Lake District call to relieve pressure on the later xx30 trains.

 

[merlodlliw]

Both services have been worked out as expected,less than six months to the release of the Dec 2013 timetable,both services are goers.
Paths I am told today are in place, full consultation with stakeholders is commencing for Dec 2013, as the May 2013 timetable consultation ended last month.
Shrewsbury /Salop/Blackpool Council & Lancs CC are stakeholders, so ask your Local CC or rug.

 

[gnolife]

Yes, however I think it's little more than a nice bit of publicity myself - north of Preston it's absolutely silent, if it's an 11-car set it may be 10-25% full from my experiences. It could seriously do with a Carlisle and Lake District call to relieve pressure on the later xx30 trains.

I'd suggest Lancaster rather than Oxenholme or Penrith, but agree that Carlisle is an incredibly stupid one to not call at.

 

[james60059]

Pardon the question, but when Shrewsbury USE to have a direct London service, which way did they run from Oxley?, I assume via Wolves, Birmingham, Coventry and then usual route. Could they not do the same now? or even go Wolves then Tame Bridge Parkway to avoid congestion at Birmingham New Street?, would save a reversal at Stafford .

 

[Boothby97]

Pardon the question, but when Shrewsbury USE to have a direct London service, which way did they run from Oxley?, I assume via Wolves, Birmingham, Coventry and then usual route. Could they not do the same now? or even go Wolves then Tame Bridge Parkway to avoid congestion at Birmingham New Street?, would save a reversal at Stafford .

A few years back in a railway magazine it was mentioned that Virgin were looking into running Shrewsbury-London via Bescot, Tame Bridge, Coleshill and Nuneaton.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks, Sam

 

[Eagle]

Pardon the question, but when Shrewsbury USE to have a direct London service, which way did they run from Oxley?, I assume via Wolves, Birmingham, Coventry and then usual route. Could they not do the same now? or even go Wolves then Tame Bridge Parkway to avoid congestion at Birmingham New Street?, would save a reversal at Stafford .

When Virgin (and BR before them) ran services to Shrewsbury it was indeed via Wolverhampton and Birmingham. Wouldn't work nowadays as it would involve replacing a Pendolino on a EUS-WVH with a Voyager or two, and that's probably not the best idea.

When W&S ran to Shrewsbury that was via Tame Bridge, the Aston to Stechford link and Kenilworth.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A few years back in a railway magazine it was mentioned that Virgin were looking into running Shrewsbury-London via Bescot, Tame Bridge, Coleshill and Nuneaton.

How would that work (without reversing at New Street)?

 

[fgwrich]

When Virgin (and BR before them) ran services to Shrewsbury it was indeed via Wolverhampton and Birmingham. Wouldn't work nowadays as it would involve replacing a Pendolino on a EUS-WVH with a Voyager or two, and that's probably not the best idea.

When W&S ran to Shrewsbury that was via Tame Bridge, the Aston to Stechford link and Kenilworth.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


How would that work (without reversing at New Street)?

Looks do-able, although you've got a pretty tight curve outside Coleshill to deal with. But a service from Shrewsbury to London via Bescot, Tame Bridge, Coleshill and Nuneaton does look possible by using the other line at Landor Street Triangle? Same route as Wrexham down from Shrewsbury until the Junction before turning left to meet the Birmingham - Water Orton - Nuneaton line.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?saddr...TXLEByQ;&t=h&gl=uk&mra=mift&mrsp=1&sz=15&z=15

Edit. Scrap that, just doubled checked and i can see what you mean, Via Bescot and Tame Bridge it can't be done. Via Walsall and the Sutton Park line however it can be done - which probably wouldn't be a bad thing for Walsall to have.

 

[Eagle]

Edit. Scrap that, just doubled checked and i can see what you mean, Via Bescot and Tame Bridge it can't be done. Via Walsall and the Sutton Park line however it can be done - which probably wouldn't be a bad thing for Walsall to have.

Wouldn't be particularly good without an upgrade to the Sutton Park line, whose linespeed at the moment is a spectacular 45 mph (for a line of over 10 miles with no junctions or crossovers).

 

[merlodlliw]

I am informed the(Shrewsbury) paths have been agreed with Network Rail and will be in the application to the ORR for rubber stamping,this must be the first time new routes have been planned, without any opposition from stakeholders which include ATW/Northern/TPE/NR etc etc.

Strange how the now defunct anti competition clauses used by VT to keep out others, is now working to VTs advantage,

 

[Whistler40145]

Do Virgin Trains drivers already have route knowledge over the Oxley Chord?

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[The Planner]

Pardon the question, but when Shrewsbury USE to have a direct London service, which way did they run from Oxley?, I assume via Wolves, Birmingham, Coventry and then usual route. Could they not do the same now? or even go Wolves then Tame Bridge Parkway to avoid congestion at Birmingham New Street?, would save a reversal at Stafford .

No paths on the Cov corridor to put an extra service in, unless as previously stated they swap out a pendo for Voyager working.