Baroness Thatcher has died

[jon0844]

Yes, the same people that would likely go out rioting and looting if given an excuse. And the idiots in Glasgow, well, thankfully they're not likely to have any serious impact on our lives in the future, so we shouldn't really lose sleep over them. I'm sure they're all a tiny minority.

Or, if any of them do go on to make a success of their lives, and become taxpayers, they'll rapidly change their outlook on life!

 

[SS4]

Well this thread turned out as much as I thought it would.

Say anything other then she was a vile nasty person and you get automatically classed as one of the 'Im alright Jack' brigade. What a surprise.

Also isnt it a little ironice for people to call her a nasty vile woman yet in the next breath say they are glad she is dead and would either dig her grave for her or dance upon?

Mind you irony never was some peoples strong point was it

Here are a number of quotes that have basically tried to shut up any dissenting voices using heavy handed tactics with a moderator amongst their group. Ironic indeed...

Except for cereal killers and terrorists no ones death is good. You might not have agreed with her views but she still had a family who will be upset by this and anyway she hardly did anything political nowadays anyway.

Oh, and just this once, maybe you Labourites should give the Lady a break.

I hardly think celebrating somebody's death is appropriate, regardless of political views.

I don't think anyones death is a cause for celebration unless they were suffering and wished to pass away.

You may disagree with someones politics but that is no reason to rejoice in their death.

I find it incredibly disrespectful and childish to celebrate someone's death...

While the above is a viewpoint that may be shared by many it is still no excuse to celebrate her death.

Now I don't expect everyone to be in a state of mourning now but I'd like to hope that most people are mature enough to not celebrate a death. I wont be upset when Mr Blair passes but I wont be dancing on is grave either.

Would all the people on here glorifying the death of an old woman be quite happy if I did the same when a member of their family had died.

I just cannot understand people who openly celebrate her death. By all means don't mourn her if one doesn't have anything positive to say about her, but to openly celebrate a human being's passing strikes me as being incredibly spiteful and childish. She is no Stalin, nor Fred West, so why all this vitriol?

As I said in my first post in this thread, I feel neither grief nor happiness over her passing, but I do feel disappointment over the way this thread has developed in terms of the lack of respect. My mum taught me that if you have nothing good to say, then say nothing at all. I would have thought that those with a strong aversion to Baroness Thatcher and her policies and therefore almost "celebrating" her passing, would "celebrate" privately and leave the thread clear wishing to share their memories of her achievements and her courage and her dedication even thought at some stage, they may have disagreed with particular things she said or did.
No human being can be liked by everybody. Real life doesn't work that way.

I just see the celebration of her death as very poor taste.

I agree.

[with Darandio above]

Well if nothing else, at least this thread will serve as a reminder of how unpleasant some of the individuals who post on this forum are.

I do expect that as a show of humility not to publicly rub it in. We wouldn't want this when we die so why do it to her?

That last comment carries more weight due to bb21's position as moderator (yes, I am aware it's his own opinion) with the implied threat of closure.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
An interesting variant on this is that people shouldn't dislike her because they weren't alive under her tenure. It's a load of rubbish! We know full well what it's like to be paying through the nose because she sold off all our essential industry! We're going to the be first generation in a while to be poorer than their parents so you can shove your self-righteous condescension where the sun don't shine!

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Yes, the same people that would likely go out rioting and looting if given an excuse. And the idiots in Glasgow, well, thankfully they're not likely to have any serious impact on our lives in the future, so we shouldn't really lose sleep over them. I'm sure they're all a tiny minority.

Or, if any of them do go on to make a success of their lives, and become taxpayers, they'll rapidly change their outlook on life!

How on earth can you make the assumption that they are not taxpayers? I have been a taxpayer all my life, I don't object to paying my taxes because it provides services that I value....and I don't have a problem if they want to party. Presumably you are suggesting that only taxpayers can make a 'success of their lives'...or is it that you object to paying taxes for the services we receive? Well, that's one legacy of Thatcher....

 

[Darandio]

Here are a number of quotes that have basically tried to shut up any dissenting voices using heavy handed tactics with a moderator amongst their group. Ironic indeed...

Oh please. I noticed you quoted me as part of that group, I said.....

I just see the celebration of her death as very poor taste.

That isn't an attempt to "shut anyone up", nor does it have anything to do with any moderator, it's merely an opinion.

To clarify, that opinion has bugger all to do with Margaret Thatcher, she has gone now and won't be doing any harm to me. That opinion was more to do with the celebration of death in general, something I still maintain is poor taste.

But that is my opinion, I'm allowed, as are you.

 

[table38]

I wasn't trying to shut down debate (although I suppose it suits your argument to assume that I was :roll

If people want to live their lives consumed with an irrational hatred of something that happened 25 years ago, that's fine with me.

Meanwhile, the rest of the country has dealt with it and moved on.

 

[Harlesden]

If anyone is interested, this is what the Jamaican government has to say about the passing of Baroness Thatcher.
http://opm.gov.jm/pm-expresses-condolences-at-the-passing-of-baroness-margaret-thatcher-2/
(I copy and paste the article as that seems to be how it is done on here.)

Prime Minister Portia Simpson Miller has expressed deepest condolences to the Government, family and people of Great Britain on the death of former Prime Minister, Baroness Margaret Thatcher.

As the longest-serving Prime Minister of the United Kingdom of the 20th century, and the only woman ever to have held the post, Baroness Thatcher made her mark on history, both in Britain and on the international stage, as a leader with strongly-held views and had the courage of her convictions.

Many of the economic policies she employed in Britain between 1979 and 1990 continue as features of the modern globalised economy. Her economic policies would be copied in numerous countries and helped to promote her international renown. She will also be remembered for the role attributed to her in relation to the end of the Cold War. Baroness Thatcher helped to change the course of modern times and her influence will continue to be felt for generations to come.

 

[Oswyntail]

Here are a number of quotes that have basically tried to shut up any dissenting voices using heavy handed tactics with a moderator amongst their group. Ironic indeed......

None of these appeared to be trying to stop dissenting voices. Discussion should, however, be carried on in a civilised fashion, without such silliness as "dancing on her grave" etc etc.

An interesting variant on this is that people shouldn't dislike her because they weren't alive under her tenure. It's a load of rubbish! We know full well what it's like to be paying through the nose because she sold off all our essential industry! We're going to the be first generation in a while to be poorer than their parents so you can shove your self-righteous condescension where the sun don't shine!

We can all have feelings, and you can dislike who you want - I positively dislike Mozart - but do not maintain that this dislike is anything other than an emotional response. You may well feel that this sorry state of affairs is directly down to her. I suggest that you actually read some of the comments, and do more than skim some research into the background of what **"she" "did"** and then you might achieve a more balanced view. The realignment of Britain's industrial output was almost inevitable because Britain could not compete, for a variety of reasons, some of which can be traced back to before even Thatcher was born. The alternative approach would, most likely, have been more and more state subsidy without improved quality or competitiveness, leaving your generation even worse off. Though how you attribute in any way your generation being poorer than your parents' (Is that inevitable? Doesn't say much for your generations ability to make a difference, does it?) chiefly to what happened some thirty years ago must be a work of contorted genius.
[** Above I use inverted commas, because a) a lot is attributed to Thatcher and her government that was nothing to do with her, just happening "on her watch" and b) One sees ridiculous statements about what was actually done that bear little relation to the truth, such is the power of demonising mythology]

 

[jon0844]

How on earth can you make the assumption that they are not taxpayers? I have been a taxpayer all my life, I don't object to paying my taxes because it provides services that I value....and I don't have a problem if they want to party. Presumably you are suggesting that only taxpayers can make a 'success of their lives'...or is it that you object to paying taxes for the services we receive? Well, that's one legacy of Thatcher....

You know full well (or I hope you do) that I wasn't suggesting none of them were taxpayers, but it was quite clear that the students in Glasgow are likely to change their opinion when they get holder and start to earn good money (and as graduates, some might one day earn a LOT of money).

Please don't twist things, and I hope that I don't have to give lengthy explanations or disclaimers on everything I write to avoid someone getting outraged.

Edit: I have just considered that possibly the clips I've seen on TV might be different to what others saw at other times/channels, so perhaps I should have clarified a bit more who/what I was talking about.

Partying on the street to celebrate the death of anyone to the point where the police have to come to break things up is also going a bit too far, but far too many people don't have a care in the world for other people these days.

You could indeed argue that Thatcher helped make this happen, so perhaps it's a little ironic.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It appears that the "bone of contention" that applies to the subject matter of this thread is the biggest "such bone" since the thigh bone bone of the sauropod Titanosaur Alaustralia was discovered.....:roll:

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Partying on the street to celebrate the death of anyone to the point where the police have to come to break things up is also going a bit too far, but far too many people don't have a care in the world for other people these days.

.

Do you know why the police broke it up ? During Thatcher's reign I gave up believing the media and the police in this country. To many they are the true liars and criminals - especially so when she ran the country.
I will unashamedly celebrate next Wednesday and hope that someone puts a stake through the hag's heart just to make sure.

 

[chris89]

I bet half the people celebrating weren't even born when Thatcher was in power. Judging by the scenes yesterday evening, it was just another good excuse to go out and run riot.

Although they might not have been born when Thatcher was in power. They have had to live in the areas that were badly affected by things such as the Pole Tax, Mines, Industry etc and still are affected.

Those who are looting and causing trouble are people who are taking advantage of what is happening, then brandishing all others under the same 'scum' level.

 

[SS4]

I'm going to take a leaf out of her book and say "I'm right, eff you "

Many of the people she screwed over are still being called scum by Cameron and his buddies. Not overtly of course but using a controlled press, just in this case the press is controlled by money

edit: this is hyperbole of course

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

You know full well (or I hope you do) that I wasn't suggesting none of them were taxpayers, but it was quite clear that the students in Glasgow are likely to change their opinion when they get holder and start to earn good money (and as graduates, some might one day earn a LOT of money).

Please don't twist things, and I hope that I don't have to give lengthy explanations or disclaimers on everything I write to avoid someone getting outraged.

Edit: I have just considered that possibly the clips I've seen on TV might be different to what others saw at other times/channels, so perhaps I should have clarified a bit more who/what I was talking about.

Partying on the street to celebrate the death of anyone to the point where the police have to come to break things up is also going a bit too far, but far too many people don't have a care in the world for other people these days.

You could indeed argue that Thatcher helped make this happen, so perhaps it's a little ironic.

I have re-read your original post and it does seem to imply (to me) that you were saying that none of them were taxpayers. I didn't know that they were all students, as I said, I haven't seen any footage. I hope that I haven't twisted things, that was not my intention.
I agree with you entirely that 'far too many people don't have a care in the world for other people these days'...funnily enough, I do care about other people (having spent my entire working life in a caring profession)...and that is why I think that this particular aspect of life has changed for the worse since Thatcher (is there another credible explanation?)

 

[Butts]

Do you know why the police broke it up ? During Thatcher's reign I gave up believing the media and the police in this country. To many they are the true liars and criminals - especially so when she ran the country.
I will unashamedly celebrate next Wednesday and hope that someone puts a stake through the hag's heart just to make sure.

I hope you are never put in a position where you have to rely on assistance from The Police as your implied hatred would preclude you from calling upon them.....

Or would it ?

 

[SS4]

Do you know why the police broke it up ? During Thatcher's reign I gave up believing the media and the police in this country. To many they are the true liars and criminals - especially so when she ran the country.
I will unashamedly celebrate next Wednesday and hope that someone puts a stake through the hag's heart just to make sure.

If I may play Devil's Advocate would it have been possible the police were doing what they had to in order to keep their jobs and avoid being blacklisted? Something tells me said blacklists are still in circulation :\

 

[Butts]

If I may play Devil's Advocate would it have been possible the police were doing what they had to in order to keep their jobs and avoid being blacklisted? Something tells me said blacklists are still in circulation :\

Plus all the overtime made a big chunk in a lot of their mortgages

 

[Mutant Lemming]

I hope you are never put in a position where you have to rely on assistance from The Police as your implied hatred would preclude you from calling upon them.....

Or would it ?

Been there , called them, waste of time...
of course we need a police force but don't go on about the fearless British bobby when there are so many corrupt ones among them.

 

[jon0844]

I have re-read your original post and it does seem to imply (to me) that you were saying that none of them were taxpayers. I didn't know that they were all students, as I said, I haven't seen any footage.

Fair enough that I was perhaps a little silly to base my comment on what I personally watched on TV (Sky) which others may not, and indeed I might have seen different clips than others.

I used to work with a guy in my old job who was (no doubt still is) a member of UK Uncut, and it was quite amusing that outside of work he was out on the streets protesting (including the riots, where he was actually mugged not far from our office after taking a day off to join in - arguing that he was 'covering' the event for their site), taking photos of the police to hopefully get a picture of heavy handedness while others goaded them, sitting inside Fortnum and Mason - and moaning about capitalism all the time.

Yet he lived with his very well off parents in a very expensive part of West London, used an iPhone 4S, took photos on a Canon EOS DSLR with an assortment of very nice lenses to capture the action and drank coffee from only the hippest coffee joints around Shoreditch and Old Street where the office was.

And he will no doubt be partying right now over the demise of Mrs T... In fact, going by his Facebook photos posted since yesterday, he's loving it but surely hasn't got a clue.

 

[jon0844]

of course we need a police force but don't go on about the fearless British bobby when there are so many corrupt ones among them.

I am not sure there are that many corrupt ones, but there are certainly a lot of lazy ones (many of which are lazy purely because they can see a justice system that works against them in so many cases that they feel there's no point going after a lot of the regular offenders).

Then there's the fact that it's now a lot easier to get into the police force (well, was) and so the quality dropped, and training also appeared to be speeded up.

That and the, IMO, silly move to replace many fully trained officers with PCSOs (and word that now many new officers will have to begin as PCSOs before working up the rank, when I was always told before that the job of a PCSO was separate and not a foot on the ladder).

Add in other things like the problem with a lack of recruitment from ethnic minorities, not because of inherent racism but because many communities feel that it's bad to go into the police force - the whole 'selling out' argument and so on, and it's no wonder the police is in such a state - irrespective of the current wave of savings and cuts.

I've had loads of bad experiences with the police, but also many good ones. I've been harassed and threatened by both police officers and PCSOs in my day job (funny how a press card can suddenly make many of them change their attitude) but also met and known very honest and dedicated ones, including friends of the family that I've known since a child - who have gone on to very senior roles (but I won't name them).

Judging the police is just like railstaff on this forum. Good and bad, but mostly good. I just wish it was more good, and that would mean tighter rules of acceptance and better training and discipline - something that seemed to get worse long after Maggie was in power. I'd say nearer to the early years of New Labour.

 

[Oswyntail]

Do you know why the police broke it up ? During Thatcher's reign I gave up believing the media and the police in this country. To many they are the true liars and criminals - especially so when she ran the country.....

The police, especially the Met, had been behaving like loose cannons for a good many years before Thatcher was elected. This behaviour seems to have reached its peak in the Orgreave "battles" but it was most definitely going on long before. That police violence was a Thatcherite phenomenon is another of those myths.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Fair enough that I was perhaps a little silly to base my comment on what I personally watched on TV (Sky) which others may not, and indeed I might have seen different clips than others.

I used to work with a guy in my old job who was (no doubt still is) a member of UK Uncut, and it was quite amusing that outside of work he was out on the streets protesting (including the riots, where he was actually mugged not far from our office after taking a day off to join in - arguing that he was 'covering' the event for their site), taking photos of the police to hopefully get a picture of heavy handedness while others goaded them, sitting inside Fortnum and Mason - and moaning about capitalism all the time.

Yet he lived with his very well off parents in a very expensive part of West London, used an iPhone 4S, took photos on a Canon EOS DSLR with an assortment of very nice lenses to capture the action and drank coffee from only the hippest coffee joints around Shoreditch and Old Street where the office was.

And he will no doubt be partying right now over the demise of Mrs T... In fact, going by his Facebook photos posted since yesterday, he's loving it but surely hasn't got a clue.

Yes, I'm sure that there are people like that in UK Uncut, but it would be unfair to assume (not that I am suggesting that you are!) that all are of the same ilk...the ones I am aware of certainly aren't. I posted a similar question earlier though, what are 'radicals' (or whatever term one wishes to use) supposed to look like these days? Is a 'member' of UK Uncut allowed to possess an IPhone? Does a member of a 'left-wing' group have to be from the working class, wear a cloth cap and drink Mild? If he or she didn't conform to these stereotypes it would appear that they would attract all kinds of opprobrium on here!

 

[ANorthernGuard]

I remember the 80's from a childs eyes. The Pain and despair on peoples faces, the violence, The early days of the "Yuppies", All I saw as a child on TV news was pain, sure as an adult you look at things differently but then I have never seen so much despair from people and that will always stay with me. Then as it is now, The rich get richer, The poor get hammered. Some things never change when Tories are in power. The only good thing I do have to say about Maggie is the Falklands, that was the one time that I saw a national pride in my childhood (that and the Charles/Diana wedding)

 

[jon0844]

If you're going to preach a certain belief and do so through protest and running a website that encourages others to follow you, or even join in with your actions, you should perhaps at least not be a total hypocrite at the same time!

Everyone here is free to do what they want (well, within reason) and that's a freedom we enjoy, but I just can't stand people who are two faced. They're like union reps that encourage members to go out and strike (and lose their pay) while they book the time off as holiday and still get paid!

 

[bb21]

Here are a number of quotes that have basically tried to shut up any dissenting voices using heavy handed tactics with a moderator amongst their group. Ironic indeed...

That last comment carries more weight due to bb21's position as moderator (yes, I am aware it's his own opinion) with the implied threat of closure.

I apologise if I gave you that impression. You can rest assured that there is absolutely no attempt from me to shut dissenting voices, or from any other member of the moderating team.

An interesting variant on this is that people shouldn't dislike her because they weren't alive under her tenure. It's a load of rubbish! We know full well what it's like to be paying through the nose because she sold off all our essential industry! We're going to the be first generation in a while to be poorer than their parents so you can shove your self-righteous condescension where the sun don't shine!

We are the first generation to be poorer than our parents for many reasons. For example, previous generations are living longer than those before them, hence less state resources are available compared to previous generations. Yes, she probably was partly responsible through some of her policies, but blaming the whole problem on Thatcher's time in government is neither objective nor constructive.

Are we going to be passing this hatred to the next generation, and then the next generation after them, ad infinitum?

Then as it is now, The rich get richer, The poor get hammered. Some things never change when Tories are in power.

Find me one example in the world that is the opposite. The poor will always be the ones that are screwed over, and that is the nature of politics. It is an unfortunate truth, and not exclusively the fault of the Tories. Was it any different under Labour? I would like things to be different just like you, however that is not going to happen and we both know it.

 

[313103]

I like this statement from Director Ken Loach:

'Lets Privatise her funeral.
Put it out to competitive tender and accept the cheapest offer.
ITS WHAT SHE WOULD HAVE WANTED'

I actually agree with that statement. She would not want to put more burden on the state bearing in mind the current state of financial affairs are in this country. Your going to have to be frugal. What was that old saying I chanted in the 1980s 'Cant Pay, Wont Pay'.

 

[bb21]

I think it is a good time to politely remind people that while the debate is heated, unsurprisingly, please refrain from personal attacks and stick with discussing the ex-prime minister and related issues. We all have a right to differing opinions but there is no need for this sort of behaviour. Thanks all.

PS. I am not referring to SS4's comments earlier in case anyone is wondering.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Without trawling back through the thread, I noticed that the BBC had made rather an embarrassing online blunder in reporting her death by stating...

"She died as a result of a strike"

Amazing how one single letter in a word can give a totally wrong context. But is anyone surprised by any mistakes made by the BBC these days ?

 

[bb21]

Perhaps it was done on purpose.

 

[balne-wonderer]

this thread shows how Thatcher divided people. I would never celebrate a death as I have previously said but I won't miss her either.

If anyone wants to see first hand the destruction that women caused in my beloved Yorkshire just visit the Dearne Valley. In 2013 places like Mexborough and Denaby remain a picture of ill and pain.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

But is anyone surprised by any mistakes made by the BBC these days ?

Not really, it's inevitable that in a fast paced news environment typos will be made, especially where the typo is still a recognised word.