Baroness Thatcher has died

[bb21]

If you cant understand why some people might not consider Saint Margret of Finchley to be the best thing to have ever happened to this country you have lived a very sheltered life.

but then I guess you didn't suffer like lots of people - I am all right jack though eh.

So this is your answer to everything?

I wouldn't bother otherwise but since you brought it up, yes, I suffered at school due to various policies her government brought in. My family also suffered in many different ways. I am not a fan of many of her policies, however I prefer to look at the bigger picture and see the good that she did. What I am looking for at this point in time is a little bit of humility at someone's death, which is clearly lost in all the hatred some people on here seem to be blinkered by.

....you will also not find a modern British politician so hated by the British public. there is a reason for that too.

She has been in power for 11 years. The country was going down the pan. There was a lot to be sorted out. I doubt anyone else would have done better in the circumstances. Unsurprisingly there would be strong feelings from both camps. But this is all going to be speculation of course. I believe she did the best she could. Others don't. No big deal.

In keeping with tory spirit not one penny of public money should be wasted on this funeral.

That, my honourable friend, I can agree with. She does not need a big state funeral, especially in this economic climate. She should be left to die in peace in private, at least for the time being.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Strange then how HMS Endurance was in Stanley Harbour when the Argentines invaded South Georgia, and was sent to investigate. Even stranger for a ship that was not there, her helicopters took part in the attack that crippled the Argentine Submarine Santa Fe.

But don't let the truth stop you exaggerating things to suit your political views.

DarloRich has got in before me - the Defence Review or whatever it was called did indicate that Endurance might be withdrawn and that, in the world of International Relations was a signal.
I take nothing away from the British forces who forced the Argentinians to concede, just stating that in the world of diplomacy the Endurance issue was a signal, and Galtieri was mad enough to jump at it.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

. What I am looking for at this point in time is a little bit of humility at someone's death, which is clearly lost in all the hatred some people on here seem to be blinkered by.



.

The same humility her and her lying press and police officers showed after Hillsborough ?

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

The same humility her and her lying press showed after Hillsborough ?

....and Orgreave (tho' thankfully no lives were directly lost)

 

[bb21]

The same humility her and her lying press showed after Hillsborough ?

Yes, an eye for an eye. The world becomes a better place because retaliation makes the world a fairer place.

 

[theblackwatch]

She did not exactly become PM at a good time though. The country was a mess and something had to be done.

Unemployment would probably have gone up regardless in the years to come. The industries were in decline, and all the signs were there. We simply cannot compete with overseas manufacturers if we do not modernise. The unions had far too much power and the country was being brought to its knees. She made a judgement call and decided that if nothing was done then worse was to come, and it probably would have because our industries were not going to be competitive the way they were at the time. Whether what she did was the best course available is open to debate, however she did what she thought was the best for this country. Some people don't seem to understand that if the terminal decline in our industries continued there would likely have been no industries left anyway. In some way she has almost become a scapegoat for what happened simply because she tried to do something about it.

I just cannot understand people who openly celebrate her death. By all means don't mourn her if one doesn't have anything positive to say about her, but to openly celebrate a human being's passing strikes me as being incredibly spiteful and childish. She is no Stalin, nor Fred West, so why all this vitriol?

Yes, I agree the country was in a mess (as I said earlier). She'd already been unpopular at least once prior to beign elected, 'Maggie Thatcher Milk Snatcher' dates back to 1971 apparently. Even at the end of her time at number 10, she was effectively 'got rid of' by the rest of her cabinet who thought she had lost the plot. One of her downfalls was the Poll Tax, which caused riots after its introduction - personally, the Poll Tax isn't something I have a problem with, and I do wonder why everyone thought it was fairer that 6 people living in a house pay the same as 2 people living in an identical one next door...

Unfortunately, the decimation of industries brought with it the collapse of entire communities, as supporting businesses could no longer survive. Communities fell apart and some areas have never really recovered. Regarding industries and the unions, there's to be one industry where she didn't stop the union power, but I'd best not go there!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Yes, an eye for an eye. The world becomes a better place because retaliation makes the world a fairer place.

She made things fairer for her friends so you can't expect anything more of us wretched dispossesed

 

[DarloRich]

So this is your answer to everything?

I wouldn't bother otherwise but since you brought it up, yes, I suffered at school due to various policies her government brought in. My family also suffered in many different ways. I am not a fan of many of her policies, however I prefer to look at the bigger picture and see the good that she did. What I am looking for at this point in time is a little bit of humility at someone's death, which is clearly lost in all the hatred some people on here seem to be blinkered by.

We had best agree to disagree then. My views are on record. I make no apologies for them. If that makes me an ogre i can live with that.

I still maintain that those who are criticising these actions have no understanding of the pain, humiliation and destruction that her policies brought on communities in this country. many of these once vibrant communities are still suffering today.

 

[Mutant Lemming]

. Poll Tax isn't something I have a problem with, and I do wonder why everyone thought it was fairer that 6 people living in a house pay the same as 2 people living in an identical one next door...

!

All very well if you had a national poll tax but if you lived in a borough with high unemployment or one with a high elderly population then the smaller working population had to pick up the shortfall. So the working populace of Merthyr and Eastbourne had a disproportionately high council tax to cover the discounted rates for pensioners and the unemployed.

 

[455driver]

Yes, an eye for an eye. The world becomes a better place because retaliation makes the world a fairer place.

Just like that taxi driver that had a block of concrete dropped on his car by the miners!

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Just like that taxi driver that had a block of concrete dropped on his car by the miners!

No excuses for that, but there was 'wrong doing' on both sides.

 

[bb21]

We had best agree to disagree then. My views are on record. I make no apologies for them. If that makes me an ogre i can live with that.

I still maintain that those who are criticising these actions have no understanding of the pain, humiliation and destruction that her policies brought on communities in this country. many of these once vibrant communities are still suffering today.

Yes, of course. I don't really expect everyone to agree with my views because she is no doubt divisive.

I am not excusing her for the mistakes she made, and she made plenty of them, but all politicians do. Yes, I can sympathise with the suffering that many endured, what I cannot understand is why people cannot spare a short period of time leaving her to die in peace.

Hatred does not change anything that has already happened. Hate her by all means, and I don't expect her to go down in history as a whiter-than-white saint one bit. She will forever remain a controversial figure. But she is after all a human being, and death is the ultimate thing that should bring out the humility amongst us, one of the most important things that separate us from other animals. I don't expect everyone to suddenly change their opinion about her because of her death, but I do expect that as a show of humility not to publicly rub it in. We wouldn't want this when we die so why do it to her?

 

[DarloRich]

Yes, of course. I don't really expect everyone to agree with my views because she is no doubt divisive.

I am not excusing her for the mistakes she made, and she made plenty of them, but all politicians do. Yes, I can sympathise with the suffering that many endured, what I cannot understand is why people cannot spare a short period of time leaving her to die in peace.

Hatred does not change anything that has already happened. Hate her by all means, and I don't expect her to go down in history as a whiter-than-white saint one bit. She will forever remain a controversial figure. But she is after all a human being, and death is the ultimate thing that should bring out the humility amongst us, one of the most important things that separate us from other animals. I don't expect everyone to suddenly change their opinion about her because of her death, but I do expect that as a show of humility not to publicly rub it in. We wouldn't want this when we die so why do it to her?

that is your view.

Mine is that it would be hypocritical to pretend that i am not happy she is dead. To give it all the RIP Margaret Thatcher stuff would be a gross lie.

 

[455driver]

No excuses for that, but there was 'wrong doing' on both sides.

My point exactly!

Funny how most of the "wrong doing" gets excused for one side but the other side gets vilified for it.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

My point exactly!

Funny how most of the "wrong doing" gets excused for one side but the other side gets vilified for it.

Sorry, didn't see that meaning in your post.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
...and I'm not making excuses!

 

[Butts]

All very well if you had a national poll tax but if you lived in a borough with high unemployment or one with a high elderly population then the smaller working population had to pick up the shortfall. So the working populace of Merthyr and Eastbourne had a disproportionately high council tax to cover the discounted rates for pensioners and the unemployed.

That coupled with the fact people who had never had to pay any contribution towards local services suddenly had to "cough up"...

They were too frightened to revalue the rates - similar to the situation with Council Tax today.

When the Poll Tax arrived I was living in Sandwell (think Lambeth of the Midlands) - and the rate was £429 for myself and my then new wife. The rates had been about £600 odd as I lived in a new 1 Bedroom Bungalow, so I was £258 down

My Mother in Law lived in a three bedroom house and their rates had only been about two or three hundred quid rocketing to a £370 Poll Tax for each resident as they lived in Dudley M B.

Taking out the Poll Tax I was paying twice as much in a 1 bedroom as she was in a 3 bedroom herein lies the problem - hers as an older property had never had the rates revalued for donkeys years.

People forget now there was transitional relief which helped cushion the blow in the form of a contribution to help with the higher payments for a few years.

As usual it was all about money not principles
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

We had best agree to disagree then. My views are on record. I make no apologies for them. If that makes me an ogre i can live with that.

I still maintain that those who are criticising these actions have no understanding of the pain, humiliation and destruction that her policies brought on communities in this country. many of these once vibrant communities are still suffering today.

Is that why you deserted your homeland and moved down sarf....

We must get together in Hogans (where I'm sure MRS T would have been welcomed) and slug this out over a £2 bottle of Magners

Ps Don't forget Darlington had Michael Fallon as Tory MP from 1983-1992 !!!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Being away at York for most of the day, I arrive somewhat late into this debate. All I will ask, is how many policies that were set in motion when Margaret Thatcher was PM and still being adhered to at the time of the Labour party accession to Government, which were bitterly decried by them whilst in opposition, were still retained by the Labour party after being elected ?

 

[Butts]

Being away at York for most of the day, I arrive somewhat late into this debate. All I will ask, is how many policies that were set in motion when Margaret Thatcher was PM and still being adhered to at the time of the Labour party accession to Government, which were bitterly decried by them whilst in opposition, were still retained by the Labour party after being elected ?

Eh......just about all of them as Blair was her heir !!! and don't forget despite all the rhetoric about the top rate of tax being reduced from 50p to 45p they only put it up from 40p to 50p in the last few months of their regime. No one seemed to harp on about tax rises for millionaires during most of their time in office.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Eh......just about all of them as Blair was her heir !!! and don't forget despite all the rhetoric about the top rate of tax being reduced from 50p to 45p they only put it up from 40p to 50p in the last few months of their regime. No one seemed to harp on about tax rises for millionaires during most of their time in office.

agreed!

 

[Clip]

Well this thread turned out as much as I thought it would.

Say anything other then she was a vile nasty person and you get automatically classed as one of the 'Im alright Jack' brigade. What a surprise.

Also isnt it a little ironice for people to call her a nasty vile woman yet in the next breath say they are glad she is dead and would either dig her grave for her or dance upon?

Mind you irony never was some peoples strong point was it

 

[NathanPrior]

You won't see any mention of the Labour government that first took free milk from all secondary school kids in 1968 or the fact free milk has been continually phased out for higher age groups by just about every subsequent government, Conservative and Labour. Inconvenient truths have no place it seems.

 

[Ivo]

The previously mentioned party in Glasgow has been criticised by the city council but apparently passed without incident.

Also, the ceremonial funeral is set to take place at some point next week, along a route already revealed from Westminster to St Paul's via Trafalgar Square.

This thread feels older than Lady T herself now

 

[Clip]

You won't see any mention of the Labour government that first took free milk from all secondary school kids in 1968 or the fact free milk has been continually phased out for higher age groups by just about every subsequent government, Conservative and Labour. Inconvenient truths have no place it seems.

You are not allowed to say anything about the Labour party on here even if it is true, you must know that by now. Irrelevant of the facts.

 

[NathanPrior]

You are not allowed to say anything about the Labour party on here even if it is true, you must know that by now. Irrelevant of the facts.

I didn't want to read through god knows how many pages of Labour propaganda to learn this.

 

[Ivo]

You are not allowed to say anything about the Labour party on here even if it is true, you must know that by now. Irrelevant of the facts.

I love this statement

I know of at least one mod/admin who is right-wing - I wish he would stamp his foot a bit more!

 

[Clip]

I love this statement

I know of at least one mod/admin who is right-wing - I wish he would stamp his foot a bit more!

It just stifles and stops any reasoned debate about any topic. Its like they have put their fingers intheir ears and gone 'La La La' like little children because its something they dont want to hear.

Stil, the world is turning. Maggie was an old woman who has had no input into anything of Britains way of life for 20 years now. She's dead. No more. Nowt to get too worked up about unless youre the sort who cant let go.

Could always ask them what the country was like before she took over and see what they say about that

Was funny seeing them partying at Brixton by the Ritzy this evening. For socialists, they certainly were wearing very expensive clothing and drinking fancy beer which costs a few bob. Im guessing it was just Prosecco bottles popping too, saving the champagne for indoors out of sight

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Just imagine if RailUK forums could use time warps, I wonder how many of our regular posters would be vitriolic about:-

1) William the Conqueror on his death, decrying "The Harrying of the North" after his accession to the throne.

2) Oliver Cromwell on his death, decrying his novel method to bring about the "Abolition of the Monarchy"

 

[Ivo]

Just imagine if RailUK forums could use time warps, I wonder how many of our regular posters would be vitriolic about:-

1) William the Conqueror on his death, decrying "The Harrying of the North" after his accession to the throne.

2) Oliver Cromwell on his death, decrying his novel method to bring about the "Abolition of the Monarchy"

That's assuming it's not run out of power after a squillion visits to King's Cross in the 1930s :roll:

 

[swj99]

Was funny seeing them partying at Brixton by the Ritzy this evening. For socialists, they certainly were wearing very expensive clothing and drinking fancy beer which costs a few bob. Im guessing it was just Prosecco bottles popping too, saving the champagne for indoors out of sight

Life is precious no matter whose it is. But if anything good comes from Thatcher's death, and the massive amount of publicity surrounding it, I hope it will be an increased awareness by the electorate of what things were like back in the late 70s / early 80s in this country, particularly for people whose lives were affected by government policy at the time, and that this awareness might prevent such terrible things from happening again.

 

[Clip]

Life is precious no matter whose it is. But if anything good comes from Thatcher's death, and the massive amount of publicity surrounding it, I hope it will be an increased awareness by the electorate of what things were like back in the late 70s / early 80s in this country, particularly for people whose lives were affected by government policy at the time, and that this awareness might prevent such terrible things from happening again.

So we should only remember and learn from history of when she was in power then?

Can you explain what it was like just before she was in power and whether or not we should learn from then too? Or was the country in the thrall of economic boom? Why only learn from the period you mention? Or is history to be written only from when she won her first general election?