Best and Worst Served Urban Areas in Britain

[chuckles1066]

Patchway?

12,232 population (2010 census), soon to be closer to 40,000 courtesy of the Charlton Hayes development on the Filton Airfield.

One train an hour.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

Patchway?

12,232 population (2010 census), soon to be closer to 40,000 courtesy of the Charlton Hayes development on the Filton Airfield.

One train an hour.

Hartlepool has a population of 92,000 yet enjoys the same service level as Patchway (1tph) though that is supplemented by 5tpd to London and 4tpd to Sunderland in addition. To be fair, 1 trains per hour each way isn't bad at all for a town of even 40,000.
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Then there's Great Yarmouth, with a population of nearly 70,000 and only 1tph too

 

[chuckles1066]

Hartlepool has a population of 92,000 yet enjoys the same service level as Patchway (1tph) though that is supplemented by 5tpd to London and 4tpd to Sunderland in addition.

So is it one train an hour or not?

To be fair, 1 trains per hour each way isn't bad at all for a town of even 40,000.
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Then there's Great Yarmouth, with a population of nearly 70,000 and only 1tph too

How many trains at Hartlepool or Great Yarmouth repeatedly turn up shortformed and thus an effective non-service, meaning another hour wait on a freezing platform?

 

[MidnightFlyer]

So is it one train an hour or not?

With the relative lack of peak time services along the Durham Coast I'd suggest these additional 9 services would only just put them slightly ahead of Patchway in terms of numbers of trains per day. The advantage Patchway has is that if need becomes so great there's a second hourly service passing through that could call: Hartlepool has no such luxury. Similarly, with the electrification of God's Wonderful, I'd suggest a complete recast of the Bristol area timetables isn't out of the question either - again a prospect that Hartlepool is lacking.

How many trains at Hartlepool or Great Yarmouth repeatedly turn up shortformed and thus an effective non-service, meaning another hour wait on a freezing platform?

How on earth is a short-formed service an effective 'non-service'? A non-service is one that doesn't appear, a short-formed service is a service regardless of how you dress it up. I'm not certain Patchway has it any worse than any other small, unstaffed halt in the country in a similar position in this sense. Believe me, it's a nationwide problem, not just the evil / useless FGW (however you deem them this week) trying to wind you up.

Perhaps the usage of Hartlepool and Great Yarmouth being about 7 or 8 times that of Patchway (some quick maths there, it's broadly that amount) means that they have more facilities to use when (if) their service is cancelled - bigger passenger numbers tend to indicate more facilities. The shelters of little more of Patchway is about typical for any halt of only 60,000 usage.

 

[Ivo]

A few criticisms of the choice of Patchway, if I may. Sorry in advance if this riles anyone!

(1) The area is very well served by buses - so well served in fact that starting next Sunday one service will run 24/7.

(2) It isn't exactly unknown for longer distance services to call there, either due to diversion or due to some other factor.

(3) There are services around that could call there if required (Matt beat me to the post with this one, referring the Pompey-Cardiff service).

(4) Much of the demand is only to Bristol, by which time the need for a station - owing to its relative proximity - reduces.

(5) It is overshadowed by Parkway, which lest we forget is barely a mile away and has services to a wide range of destinations.

(6) If the Henbury loop does reopen, the one potential advantage it has - Cribbs Causeway - is lost to the new route. Ditto the Airfield development.

Sorry - Patchway really doesn't need a better service. If a second stopper between Bristol and Cardiff materialised, then I agree it should stop there - but unless this does happen, I really can't see any justification for an improved service.

 

[tbtc]

How many trains at Hartlepool or Great Yarmouth repeatedly turn up shortformed and thus an effective non-service

When you say "short formed", have you got something in writing that says services at Patchway will have a minimum number of coaches?

People use "short formed" in the way that they use "overcrowded" - it gets bandied about as shorthand for "not enough seats to satisfy me" rather than any genuine definition.

Since the vast majority of services at Hartlepool are two coach Northern services (split between 142s and 156s) it'd be hard to see how much "shorter" they could be (no 153s up that neck of the woods).

 

[dysonsphere]

Would still be interesting to see what percentage of people drive in to the centre as opposed to use the train.
In sizeable cities like Bristol, Stoke and Derby I would imagine the number of urban rail commuters to be tiny in comparison.

Yes that’s true but most local stations lost their stopping trains a few years ago when new trains were introduced. Also the potteries loop line was closed in the 60's, if that was still open there would be massive train use locally. Plus Stoke station is very awkward for most locations being in the valley while most of Stoke is on the surrounding hills.

 

[MidnightFlyer]

So is it one train an hour or not?



How many trains at Hartlepool or Great Yarmouth repeatedly turn up shortformed and thus an effective non-service, meaning another hour wait on a freezing platform?

A few criticisms of the choice of Patchway, if I may. Sorry in advance if this riles anyone!...

When you say "short formed", have you got something in writing that says services at Patchway will have a minimum number of coaches?

People use "short formed" in the way that they use "overcrowded" - it gets bandied about as shorthand for "not enough seats to satisfy me" rather than any genuine definition.

Since the vast majority of services at Hartlepool are two coach Northern services (split between 142s and 156s) it'd be hard to see how much "shorter" they could be (no 153s up that neck of the woods).

I decided to do a bit of digging with regard to Patchway and its services. Below is a table comparing itself, Great Yarmouth and Hartlepool when it comes to population, number of trains calling per day (departures only) and station usage per year. I think the results speak for themselves. (Data is from links supplied by Wikipedia, OTT and the ORR. Number of trains is for a standard winter timetable weekday.)

Town		Popultn	Trains 	Stn usage
Patchway 	10,500	38	59,000
Great Yarmouth 	68,000	23	428,000
Hartlepool	93,000	42	508,000

 

[chuckles1066]

How on earth is a short-formed service an effective 'non-service'?

When the train turns up and you can't squeeze a playing card onto the cramped coaches and the guard sticks his head out of the window and apologises and says there's no room at the inn?

If I'm on the platform and can't get on, it's effectively a non-service.

You must be able to see that?

A few criticisms of the choice of Patchway, if I may. Sorry in advance if this riles anyone!

(1) The area is very well served by buses - so well served in fact that starting next Sunday one service will run 24/7.

Going to where?

(2) It isn't exactly unknown for longer distance services to call there, either due to diversion or due to some other factor.

Examples, dates, times......and I don't mean FGW suddenly deciding that Patchway is important just because there's been a landslide at Chipping Sodbury.

(3) There are services around that could call there if required (Matt beat me to the post with this one, referring the Pompey-Cardiff service).

But they don't so that's irrelevant; Hopwood has already raised the middle finger on that one.

(4) Much of the demand is only to Bristol, by which time the need for a station - owing to its relative proximity - reduces.

Bristol is the nearest city to Patchway, I wouldn't expect the residents here to work anywhere else?

(5) It is overshadowed by Parkway, which lest we forget is barely a mile away and has services to a wide range of destinations.

Indeed; with it's £5 per day parking charge and the fact that it takes 45 minutes to get there in the rush hour.

(6) If the Henbury loop does reopen, the one potential advantage it has - Cribbs Causeway - is lost to the new route. Ditto the Airfield development.

Sorry - Patchway really doesn't need a better service. If a second stopper between Bristol and Cardiff materialised, then I agree it should stop there - but unless this does happen, I really can't see any justification for an improved service.

You ARE Hopwood and I claim my £5.