Old, Dirty & Late - Network SouthEast

[wimbledonpete]

Hi all

If you're up for a bit of a nostalgia then do check this out - it was an attempt by NSE SE to show the public exactly how difficult it was to run the tangle of lines into Charing Cross and Cannon Street. Trouble is, of course, it didn't QUITE work out like that, not least because the EPBs were on their last legs and the Networkers were a mess of teething troubles.

I was in the PR department at that time - it was, erm, quite busy at the time! Slam door heaven, though.

It's split into different segments on YouTube

Part 1
[youtube]UeNfSHeDmw8[/youtube]

Part 2
[youtube]Hg8evTs7SYI[/youtube]

Part 4
[youtube]Q7-hKkwh6dA[/youtube]

Part 5
[youtube]rKoxMpOMnT8[/youtube]

 

[yorksrob]

Slam door heaven indeed

I remember watching it at the time (and indeed, since) and then, as now, a lot of the problems were down to circumstances beyond the railways control such as the one under and terrorists blowing up a vep (which frankly could have been disasterous had it not been for the actions of the railway) rather than the lovely EPB's.

One thing that struck me at the time was the complete absence of unrefurbed EPB's in the programme, as there always seemed to be about half and half when I was travelling around there.

 

[ainsworth74]

Oh good, this had vanished off of YouTube not so long ago which was a great shame as it's a really good program.

 

[wimbledonpete]

Slam door heaven indeed

I remember watching it at the time (and indeed, since) and then, as now, a lot of the problems were down to circumstances beyond the railways control such as the one under and terrorists blowing up a vep (which frankly could have been disasterous had it not been for the actions of the railway) rather than the lovely EPB's.

One thing that struck me at the time was the complete absence of unrefurbed EPB's in the programme, as there always seemed to be about half and half when I was travelling around there.

Can get quite misty-eyed over the EPBs - so much variety there! Spotting the 9 compartment trailers, sets with BR designed driving coaches and SR trailers - happy days.

 

[yorksrob]

Can get quite misty-eyed over the EPBs - so much variety there! Spotting the 9 compartment trailers, sets with BR designed driving coaches and SR trailers - happy days.

Very easy indeed. I read that some had compartment trailers built for the old wooden bodied SUB's with more luxurious compartments as they'd been built to have 1st class. Never had one of those though unfortunately.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Probalby one of the best "as it is" records of pre- privatisation and Networker SED.

Watch the bit on point winding at Charlton on a cold morning - by the book stuff ! Quality.

 

[yorkie]

Unfortunately part 3 appears to be missing

Also just to let everyone know, we have tags to embed youtube videos into posts, simply use the tag [ youtube ] followed by the video ID (ie, UeNfSHeDmw8, in the case of the first video) and then close the youtube tag [ / youtube ] - but no spaces! I have embedded the videos into the original post (OP) of this thread.

 

[Tom C]

We still have possessions given up late, we still the points failures, the fatalites and sadly even the Networkers.

All thats changed from that video to today is we don't have BR or the EPB's.

Cracking video!

 

[yorksrob]

Toplights seemed to be an eminently sensible idea. I never understood why BR never continued them.

 

[wimbledonpete]

Very easy indeed. I read that some had compartment trailers built for the old wooden bodied SUB's with more luxurious compartments as they'd been built to have 1st class. Never had one of those though unfortunately.

I had them a few times but always by pure chance. Would get on, sit down and think "hang on, there's tons of room in here!" Very noticeable legroom but by that time that was the only difference - the seats were the same. The compartments at each end of the coach were normal size as they'd been built as second class.

 

[yorksrob]

I had them a few times but always by pure chance. Would get on, sit down and think "hang on, there's tons of room in here!" Very noticeable legroom but by that time that was the only difference - the seats were the same. The compartments at each end of the coach were normal size as they'd been built as second class.

Would have been great. Alas EPB compartments were pretty rare when I was around. Been on 5001 a few times that had them though.

 

[D365]

We still have possessions given up late, we still the points failures, the fatalites and sadly even the Networkers.

All thats changed from that video to today is we don't have BR or the EPB's.

Cracking video!

What's wrong with the Networkers :P I shall make time to watch this and some of these other YouTube gems.

 

[Manchester77]

thank you so much for putting this thread up!! I was devostated when it left youtube
NSE we serve the south is also a good watch js

 

[yorksrob]

What's wrong with the Networkers :P I shall make time to watch this and some of these other YouTube gems.

They're splendid trains (you even get to see one in this programe ). The seats are very hard compared to an EPB though.

 

[class303]

great to see this back on youtube! i will capture the vids for future upload in the event of these disapearing

 

[Firestarter]

great to see this back on youtube! i will capture the vids for future upload in the event of these disapearing

How does one do that?

 

[starrymarkb]

How does one do that?

Using Dubious Software... Downloading videos is against the Youtube TOS so there are no official Tools...

 

[Bald Rick]

Some familiar faces in that, including John Arthur who is more or less doing the same job today - and he's not changed a bit!

 

[SETCommuter]

I know the driver Ken Pearce. Went on to become Train Crew Supervisor at Gillingham then Ramsgate. Now retired and living abroad.

 

[yorksrob]

Some familiar faces in that, including John Arthur who is more or less doing the same job today - and he's not changed a bit!

I wonder if they miss real trains

 

[Blindtraveler]

excillent! Thanks.
On a side note someone earlier jsked whats wrong with the Networkers? I'm asking that again - easilly my fave EMU Followed by a 323 that is in service. Also what was all these teething problems?

 

[43021HST]

Wasn't this just one example of the anti nationalisation propaganda the, mass media and TV where putting out at the time? Oh didn't things work out so beautifully 10 years later.

 

[D365]

excillent! Thanks.
On a side note someone earlier jsked whats wrong with the Networkers? I'm asking that again - easilly my fave EMU Followed by a 323 that is in service. Also what was all these teething problems?

That was me, Networker hi-five! Teething problems? I need to make time to watch Network SouthEast's YouTube vidoes..

 

[yorksrob]

Wasn't this just one example of the anti nationalisation propaganda the, mass media and TV where putting out at the time? Oh didn't things work out so beautifully 10 years later.

I think the programe added to a general feeling at the time that the railways needed more investment. It was only really the Tory party that interpreted this as a need for privatisation. When the various ideas for privatisation came out, the majority of people thought they were barmy.

 

[wimbledonpete]

excillent! Thanks.
On a side note someone earlier jsked whats wrong with the Networkers? I'm asking that again - easilly my fave EMU Followed by a 323 that is in service. Also what was all these teething problems?

As I remember, the teething problems were just the usual collection of things you get when you introduce a fleet of technologically complex trains to a set of lines used to the likes of the EPBs (which, according to people I knew who drove them, came from the "if it goes wrong, bash it with a hammer and it'll be fine" school of train design).

And platforms were being extended, track was being made ready etc etc. I remember the Evening Standard running a piece sneering that we had ordered trains that were too big for our tunnels and that that basically showed how incompetent we were. Whereas in fact, they were too big for some tunnels (around Woolwich, as I remember) because over the years the tunnel linings had been strengthened and made progressively narrower. All we were doing was opening them out again. But some media outlets never let accuracy get in the way of a good bash at the railways!

I like the Networkers - I like how they were designed to give just about every seat a window. Being there as we introduced them was a great period in my life.

 

[jopsuk]

it's a great shame that the Networker programme was hobbled and cut short by the preparations for privatisation- though no doubt the slam door fans were happy that it gave the slammers several extra years of service.

 

[A-driver]

excillent! Thanks.
On a side note someone earlier jsked whats wrong with the Networkers? I'm asking that again - easilly my fave EMU Followed by a 323 that is in service. Also what was all these teething problems?

Networkers were tested without the door steps on and so when they added them on after clearing them they found them out if gauge to the extent that they no linger fitted in some tunnels, bridges and stations including London bridge high level! A lot of work was needed to alter the infrastructure for them. Even now there are signs on the gantries around bricklayers arms near London bridge and under ebury bridge road outside Victoria preventing networkers being run on the eastern side lines. Even on the great northern there are sections they are only cleared for with the door steps removed such as the cannonbury spur.

They also suffered from problems with overcrowding due to the design. People gathered in the doorways in the peak and this extra weight caused the floor of the vestibules to sag a bit due to the fact that the equipment and boogies are suspended either side of the door ways so they are the weakest part of the structure. This sagging meant the door frames became too small for the doors to fully close and there were problems gaining interlock at busy stations in the peak-I know one driver who walked back to kick a door shut in the peak and it actually fell off onto the platform when he kicked it!

There was also some bad feeling to them by commuters on the GN as they actually have less seats than a 317 which was done to maximise standing room.

Personally I hate driving networkers-they seem very clunky and awkward to control compared to a trusty 317/321/313 plus you can't stand up in the cabs.

 

[OuterDistant]

Some familiar faces in that, including John Arthur who is more or less doing the same job today - and he's not changed a bit!

Pleased to hear that - he comes across as a likeable bloke

 

[millemille]

They also suffered from problems with overcrowding due to the design. People gathered in the doorways in the peak and this extra weight caused the floor of the vestibules to sag a bit due to the fact that the equipment and boogies are suspended either side of the door ways so they are the weakest part of the structure. This sagging meant the door frames became too small for the doors to fully close and there were problems gaining interlock at busy stations in the peak-I know one driver who walked back to kick a door shut in the peak and it actually fell off onto the platform when he kicked it!

Utter fantasy.....

I've spent 22 years building, commissioning, maintaining and modifying Networkers from shop floor to fleet engineering level and have never heard such cobblers.

 

[A-driver]

Utter fantasy.....

I've spent 22 years building, commissioning, maintaining and modifying Networkers from shop floor to fleet engineering level and have never heard such cobblers.

Well speak to the many southeastern drivers who worked them at the time and the fitters who were maintaining them. They all speak if these problems.