Southern refusing to refund ticket due to snow

[DelayRepay]

Hi

Some advice please. On Friday 17 Jan I had a ticket booked to travel with London Midland. The ticket was booked through the Southern website to take advantage of cashback.

Due to the bad weather, I decided not to travel. As I held an Advance Ticket I thought I had lost my money and was going to simply write it off. However, when I checked the London Midland website the next day, it said

that “If you hold an Advance fare for travel on 17, 18 or 19 January and you have had to change your plans, you can travel on any London Midland departure… If you choose not to travel at all, just apply for a refund at the place you bought the ticket (or online if applicable) – you won’t be charged any cancellation fees.”

So I sent my ticket off to Southern, asking for a refund. I thought I may have a problem so, trying to be helpful, I enclosed a print out of the message above from the LM website.

Southern have sent me a letter saying that I'm not entitled to a refund as advance tickets are non-refundable. Clearly not actually read what I wrote on the form, or looked at the enclosures.

Is it worth persuing this or should I let it drop? Are they likely to actually read a complaint letter if I send one in? Or have I mis-understood London Midland's message?

I'd be happy with a refund in vouchers as my season ticket's due to be renewed soon.

 

[Ferret]

Hi

Some advice please. On Friday 17 Jan I had a ticket booked to travel with London Midland. The ticket was booked through the Southern website to take advantage of cashback.

Due to the bad weather, I decided not to travel. As I held an Advance Ticket I thought I had lost my money and was going to simply write it off. However, when I checked the London Midland website the next day, it said



So I sent my ticket off to Southern, asking for a refund. I thought I may have a problem so, trying to be helpful, I enclosed a print out of the message above from the LM website.

Southern have sent me a letter saying that I'm not entitled to a refund as advance tickets are non-refundable. Clearly not actually read what I wrote on the form, or looked at the enclosures.

Is it worth persuing this or should I let it drop? Are they likely to actually read a complaint letter if I send one in? Or have I mis-understood London Midland's message?

I'd be happy with a refund in vouchers as my season ticket's due to be renewed soon.

Definitely worth pursuing I'd say! LM issued travel advice - you followed it in the knowledge you could get a refund. It should be that simple!

 

[Prairie_5542]

Normally Advance Fares are Non-refundable according to FRPP. But if they put a message out saying you could get a refund, I would def pursue getting a refund.

 

[DelayRepay]

I know they are normally non refundable, and I was quite happy to take that risk when I booked.

What I'm not sure about is how to "convince" Southern to give me a refund, when the announcement that refunds would be given was made by LM (who didn't sell me the ticket!). I assume that in any case Southern will get their money back from LM so won't be out of pocket themselves?

 

[bb21]

Oh, dear. Southern customer service.

They are not very well run I am afraid in my experience. Definitely chase it up but be prepared for a long battle.

 

[sheff1]

Oh, dear. Southern customer service.

They are not very well run I am afraid in my experience. Definitely chase it up but be prepared for a long battle.

I can only second this.

My issue was finally sorted, but I have not bought another ticket from Southern since and have no intention of doing so in the future. In my view the hassle involved in resolving what should have been a simple issue is not something I would wish to repeat.

 

[AlterEgo]

You should pursue this. London Midland informed all retail channels that refunds should be offered for that date - end of.

You will be successful.

I'd also suggest contacting London Midland.

 

[yorkie]

Is it worth persuing this ...

Yes.

The person who answered your query is probably someone who works for Atos on behalf of Southern. I have had the misfortune to read some junk written by Atos employees.

In this case as it's Southern they are representing, I think that the matter may be resolved sooner, and without having to be bored to death trying to explain the situation to the drainers at Atos (you have a PM. If you follow the instructions in the PM, I am sure it will be resolved soon)

I have come to the conclusion that many online retailers don't really value our custom. What they tend to do, is in the first instance refuse any requests for refunds, or changes, for any reason. They know most people will give up at that stage.

If you are persistent, then they will finally cave in. But hardly anyone takes it that far. I suspect the business model of some TOCs relies on people not claiming refunds when they are due refunds and not claiming compensation when they are due compensation.

Someone accidentally forgot to apply a Railcard discount on RedSpottedHanky and informed them right away. RSH wanted an admin fee to correct it, despite the fact that if he had bought at the station it would have been exchanged at most stations without an admin fee being charged. RSH did relent on that occasion though.

Someone else accidentally applied the wrong Railcard discount on East Coast, who refused to budge, and wanted to charge a fee greater than the cost of the tickets. They did eventually relent though but only because other failings were mentioned.

Those are two examples fresh in my mind from recently, but I have heard of many more.

If you have access to a good ticket office, I'd buy your tickets from them instead.

Unfortunately not all ticket offices are good, for example Sheffield station are renowned for offering poor service, so people from Sheffield may be better off booking online.

Many ticket clerks offer fantastic service, but not all do, sadly. I know people who get to know the good ticket offices, and the good clerks, and when they get to the front of the queue, pretend to be taking a mobile call (or similar) and invite the person behind them to go ahead, until the knowledgeable ticket clerk is free, and only then do they head to the counter.

 

[8J]

I had a similar incident on those dates with southeastern. I purchased my tickets from a station using travel vouchers and a partial cash payment. VT told me that I would be refunded in cash (my girlfriend purchased the tickets without my staff discount too!!??)

South eastern were not happy of this, so I eventully spoke to the VT office at euston, and i was transfered to another date for free. That was so much easier and great ticket office service from the VT staff at Euston!!

 

[Mojo]

Shouldn't the ticket be returned to London Midland, as the company which you were delayed on, rather than Southern?

 

[yorkie]

Delay = compensation = Make claim with TOC you were booked to travel with
Choose not to travel = refund = Request refund from point of sale.

 

[ushawk]

Oh, dear. Southern customer service.

They are not very well run I am afraid in my experience. Definitely chase it up but be prepared for a long battle.

Very much this !!

Had problems with Southern the same weekend actually. Had advance tickets booked through Southern to Birmingham using Southern, LM and VT. LM and VT both issued travel advice that if you dont want to travel using their service you can either use alternative services or claim a refund from your issuer.

Both LM and VT said that they had directed Southern to issue refunds on their tickets, but when i spoke to Southern, they said you must travel on your booked service and you cannot have a refund.

I did travel in the end and i was actually allowed to travel earlier by station staff and the conductor so frontline Southern staff have common sense !!

Have had loads of problems with Southern customer service - quite possible the worst in the country - total opposite to East Coast and First Hull Trains - both of those dealt with my problems in a week when needed.

 

[yorkie]

To anyone having problems, give customer services a ring:

http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/contact-us/#altnumber

08451272920 or 02081850778

I just spoke with someone at Customer Services who has agreed that refunds should be given in these circumstances and if you provide them with your booking reference and details they will look at the cases.

ushawk - It is worth contacting them anyway about the poor advice you received. You could ask what steps they will take to ensure appropriate advice is given in future.

 

[8J]

Mojo and Yorkie, a customer could send off their tickets to customer relations in these circumstances, but they are also enitled to a full refund from the point of purchase in what ever method of payment they used. This really highlighted the flaws in the privatised system as there was poor (if any at all) communication between the seperate tocs, or if there was, this information was not relayed to staff, not even to the relevent customer relations departments of the TOC'S the tickets were purchased from.

 

[yorkie]

I agree.

Trying to get a refund or a ticket exchange from the online booking sites is usually a nightmare. That applies for most sites - they just don't really care about our custom. If anyone thinks a particular online retailer is an exception to that, I'd be interested to hear more.

 

[johnnycache]

i work for Southern

if anyone is still having trouble resolving these issues please PM details to me and i can get them fast tracked

 

[DelayRepay]

I thought I'd give an update. When I started this thread, someone PM'd me suggesting I contact johnnycache. I didn't feel that I should ask someone who I don't know to deal with a complaint about his employer for me. So I wrote another letter to Southern pointing out that they were wrong.

Today I have received another reply, from the same person who wrote to me last time. This reply is the exact same letter, simply stating that "Advance tickets are non-refundable". Clearly whoever opened my letter didn't actually read it.

Letter number 3 has just gone, addressed to the Managing Director. The ticket in question only cost £14. I wonder if Southern's policy is to annoy and fustrate customers so much that they abandon all hope of ever getting their money back?

Round 3 begins!

 

[bb21]

It doesn't happen to come from someone whose initials are MM, does it?

 

[DelayRepay]

It doesn't happen to come from someone whose initials are MM, does it?

Yes although I suspect that MM is actually some kind of robot that's automatically sending stupid letters, rather than being a real Business Manager.

 

[Brucey]

I wish you luck DelayRepay and do keep us updated.

I'm still waiting for a callback about a complaint letter I wrote on the 13th January regarding the aftersales after an online ticket purchase. Had two voicemail messages (once when I was abroad and the other when I was at work) offering to call me back later, but they never did.

I did receive some mysterious letters from, you've guessed it, MM asking to send in my ticket to get a refund, but no indication what ticket they wanted or for what purpose. I assumed it was related to an already resolved Delay Repay case. Emailing for clarification didn't help either.

 

[johnnycache]

I work for Southern (but only until 16 March)

If any of you are having trouble please PM me and I'll get it dealt with

 

[sheff1]

Letter number 3 has just gone, addressed to the Managing Director. The ticket in question only cost £14. I wonder if Southern's policy is to annoy and fustrate customers so much that they abandon all hope of ever getting their money back?

I got the feeling with my case it was incompetence, rather than a deliberate policy.

I mentioned earlier that I had stopped using Southern to book tickets as a result. Today I received an email offering an 'exclusive discount' if I book via them before 21 March - it has been swiftly moved to the 'Trash' folder !

 

[Urban Gateline]

I thought I'd give an update. When I started this thread, someone PM'd me suggesting I contact johnnycache. I didn't feel that I should ask someone who I don't know to deal with a complaint about his employer for me. So I wrote another letter to Southern pointing out that they were wrong.

Today I have received another reply, from the same person who wrote to me last time. This reply is the exact same letter, simply stating that "Advance tickets are non-refundable". Clearly whoever opened my letter didn't actually read it.

Letter number 3 has just gone, addressed to the Managing Director. The ticket in question only cost £14. I wonder if Southern's policy is to annoy and fustrate customers so much that they abandon all hope of ever getting their money back?

Round 3 begins!

May I ask why you are so stubborn as to not accept "Johnnycache"'s help? You seem to be making things more difficult than they could be...:roll:

 

[bnm]

May I ask why you are so stubborn as to not accept "Johnnycache"'s help? You seem to be making things more difficult than they could be...:roll:

DelayRepay clearly said he didn't wish to use a third party he didn't know, and one who's working for the company he's having problems with.

That seem perfectly understandable to me and in no way stubborn.

 

[DelayRepay]

May I ask why you are so stubborn as to not accept "Johnnycache"'s help? You seem to be making things more difficult than they could be...:roll:

Because I had already written and posted a letter when Johnnycache posted his offer of help. I (wrongly as it turns out) thought that Southern's official channels would be capable of resolving a very simple issue, without relying on the goodwill of one of their employees posting on a forum.

Was I mistaken or is this the standard of service Southern aims to offer? That they're happy to resolve complaints but only if you go to the trouble of finding a helpful employee on a forum. If you write to Customer Services you may as well put your message in a bottle and throw it in the river!

 

[Urban Gateline]

DelayRepay clearly said he didn't wish to use a third party he didn't know, and one who's working for the company he's having problems with.

That seem perfectly understandable to me and in no way stubborn.

I disagree, it is very stubborn, I am sure Jonnycache can verify his identity to one of the Admins or Mods if required, and there is nothing for him to gain by offering to fast track "DelayRepay"'s claim...if a member of Southern management was offering to kindly help me out I would jump at the chance rather than ignoring it and facing more time writing to less senior Southern staff members! (Yes I doubt the letter will get to the desk of Southern's CEO!)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Because I had already written and posted a letter when Johnnycache posted his offer of help. I (wrongly as it turns out) thought that Southern's official channels would be capable of resolving a very simple issue, without relying on the goodwill of one of their employees posting on a forum.

Was I mistaken or is this the standard of service Southern aims to offer? That they're happy to resolve complaints but only if you go to the trouble of finding a helpful employee on a forum. If you write to Customer Services you may as well put your message in a bottle and throw it in the river!

I see your point and agree that the level of service demonstrated to you was unacceptable. Of course it should not take an "off duty" member of staff to have to raise things internally, however I think it's an offer worth taking!

 

[yorkie]

We have a lot of contacts and are always willing to help, for legitimate requests such as this one, where we are in a position to do so.

If people don't want help, that's fine, I don't think anyone should be criticised for that, as yes, in theory you shouldn't need our help or contacts.

However, for the avoidance of doubt, I have met johnnycache, I can confirm he is in a position to be able to help, he is willing to help where he can, and has helped forum members previously. Hope that helps remove all doubt!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Was I mistaken or is this the standard of service Southern aims to offer? That they're happy to resolve complaints but only if you go to the trouble of finding a helpful employee on a forum. If you write to Customer Services you may as well put your message in a bottle and throw it in the river!

Did you try phoning them?

To anyone having problems, give customer services a ring:

http://www.southernrailway.com/your-journey/contact-us/#altnumber

08451272920 or 02081850778

I just spoke with someone at Customer Services who has agreed that refunds should be given in these circumstances and if you provide them with your booking reference and details they will look at the cases.

ushawk - It is worth contacting them anyway about the poor advice you received. You could ask what steps they will take to ensure appropriate advice is given in future.

That was the first person I spoke to! Unlike with some other TOCs (e.g. EMT) I didn't have to insist on speaking to a manager to get someone helpful. She was not able to arrange a refund as I did not have any details of your case. But she said that if you did call she would ensure you were refunded and that the matter of a refund being refused by web support would be investigated, and she did agree that someone in the circumstances you describe is entitled to a refund.

 

[DelayRepay]

I disagree, it is very stubborn, I am sure Jonnycache can verify his identity to one of the Admins or Mods if required, and there is nothing for him to gain by offering to fast track "DelayRepay"'s claim...if a member of Southern management was offering to kindly help me out I would jump at the chance rather than ignoring it and facing more time writing to less senior Southern staff members! (Yes I doubt the letter will get to the desk of Southern's CEO!)

I disagree. As a passenger and customer I should be able to get a refund through official channels. It is not stubborn to ask Southern to deal with my complaint properly. I have send Johnnycache a PM asking if he is able to help, but I think it is unacceptable that I have to reply on the kindness of one of their employees. I am not the only person who has had problems with "MM" sending letters out like a robot. I have had a PM from another forum member who has also had problems with MM, which have only been resolved by Passenger Focus.

I also agree that the CEO is unlikely to see the letter. However, I used to run the complaints department for a Financial Services company (unlike the railways we are subject to heavy regulation and have an effective ombudsman service). If a letter of complaint had been addressed to my MD, and one of my team had previously made a pig's ear of the complaint, I would have to explain myself to the MD and the staff member would have to explain themselves to me. As well as putting it right for that customer, I would have to check that complaint handler's work (5 complaints either side and all complaints that month about the same subject) to make sure they had been dealt with properly.

Southern's own complaints procedure says: "If you are not happy with the way we have answered your complaint, please contact us again and let us know why you were dissatisfied. We’ll review the matter again and re-consider our position, with the review carried out by a more senior member of staff than originally
replied, and contact you again."
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Did you try phoning them?

No, I'll try that today. I had already posted my letter to Customer Services when you posted the suggestion on the previous page of the thread, so I thought I may as well let CS deal with it. It seems odd to me that the telephone staff seem to understand the problem but the letter writing staff don't. However I will try calling today and see what they say.